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Topic: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17 (Read 3158 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #30 –
What im high lighting is until we address the revolving door of why people want out, we arent going to achieve much.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Baggers – on


Our major issue is our midfield/wings. Too slow, too predictable, too many similar/ same types. Thank the gods for Jagga... but he's only one skinny kid with a great footy IQ and silky skills.

Agree wholeheartedly on this.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What im high lighting is until we address the revolving door of why people want out, we arent going to achieve much.

Sorry, 3 Leos, but I do not believe we have a revolving door of people who want out. The only best 25 or so blokes who wanted out were TDK and Charles. Nothing we could do about TDK considering the massive financial from the Aints to set him up for life.

Yes, we've learned that it was not ideal in the locker room last year, but I'm more than confident that any ructions are being dealt with, if not already dealt with.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What im high lighting is until we address the revolving door of why people want out, we arent going to achieve much.

I just don't think there's an easy answer.
It's not a single issue that causes people to leave.
What I do feel is that Wright has spent around 12 months acting as an almost 'independent' reviewer.
It's given him the opportunity to assess where he thinks changes need to be made, be that on-field or off-field.

Now to make sweeping changes all at once may be counter productive so...
Make a few to start....Head of football for one.
Move a few players who don't want to be part of the future.
Then look at it again this year and make a few more...we can probably guess at those if things don't improve.

That gives him a base to work with over the next few seasons.
The only problem with all that is...even CEOs aren't ever safe at Carlton. ;)  :D

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What im high lighting is until we address the revolving door of why people want out, we arent going to achieve much.

Sorry, 3 Leos, but I do not believe we have a revolving door of people who want out. The only best 25 or so blokes who wanted out were TDK and Charles. Nothing we could do about TDK considering the massive financial from the Aints to set him up for life.

Yes, we've learned that it was not ideal in the locker room last year, but I'm more than confident that any ructions are being dealt with, if not already dealt with.

Is that right?

More want to leave us than stay recently as far as im concerned.

My thought process is we have to pay overs for average players, the few stars we have seem to face periods where they dont want or arent interested in playing for us, and then the second we get someone in demand they start floating about wanting out.

You never left an employer you were happy working for, and sometimes you leave what you consider a bad manager.

Sure players leave other clubs too, but just last season we had Charlie want out.  McKay with mental health issues where ne needed a break from playing (not solely about us).  Docherty pulling up stumps when he probably could get a game today (more factors there too, to do with where he saw us going and where he was at).  Jsos pretty much walking out, admittedly for bigger dollars but that one is alarming. Tdk getting a godfather offer but let's face it, he wanted out as much as anything.

Is isolation all that is acceptable, but we've been here a few times over the journey.  Is my point.  Why do all these people want out?  Why do we appear one of the few teams where this theme plays out repeatedly?  You dont see a mass exodus from too many teams but at Carlton in reckon we are on number 4 since 2004.  Theres something in it and it also goes back to attracting players too.  People dont seem all that enthused about coming to us.   We are just an option. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What im high lighting is until we address the revolving door of why people want out, we arent going to achieve much.

Free agency is a powerful financial incentive to change clubs but over the last decade only two of our players have exercised free agency.

In fact, in that time only two players - Gibbs and Curnow - have sought clearances to other clubs.  Tuohy, Phillips, Petrevski-Seton, Setterfield, Fisher, Kennedy and Owies were put on the trade table and Jones "retired" for philosophical reasons.

Four players wanting out over the last decade is hardly a revolving door.  On the flip side, we had Ainsworth, Chesser, Reidy and Khamis all wanting to come to Carlton last off season, as well as two FS and NGA prospects nominating us.  Apart from the Khamis trade not getting done, the Western Bulldogs have had seven players exercise free agency or successfully seek clearances in the last four years.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Sorry, 3 Leos, but I do not believe we have a revolving door of people who want out. The only best 25 or so blokes who wanted out were TDK and Charles. Nothing we could do about TDK considering the massive financial from the Aints to set him up for life.

Yes, we've learned that it was not ideal in the locker room last year, but I'm more than confident that any ructions are being dealt with, if not already dealt with.

Is that right?

More want to leave us than stay recently as far as im concerned.

...and i believe that last statement is the problem.

Firstly, i take it you dont mean that literally.
Its clear more people re-signed with the club last year conpared to players who wanted out. On any given year about 1/3 to 1/2 your list is out of contract.

Secondly,
How many players have actually wanted to leave?
This year 3. We also pushed a couple.

In the last couple years, who wanted out?
Keeping in mind we pushed a couple too.

Weitering signed up last year, walsh this year. They could name their price if they left, but they didn't.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #37 –
Touhy left for money, he wasn't traded.

I reckon most of those who left went for reason other than PP was a crap place to be. Exceptions to this were clearly Henderson + Touhy, who both couldn't F off fast enough. Waite hated the coach.

I don't want a thread to start on this, it digging up an old corpse.  It's done, let's move on.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #38 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Touhy left for money, he wasn't traded.

I reckon most of those who left went for reason other than PP was a crap place to be. Exceptions to this were clearly Henderson + Touhy, who both couldn't F off fast enough. Waite hated the coach.

I don't want a thread to start on this, it digging up an old corpse.  It's done, let's move on.
Touhy hated Boltons guts, he said as in a recent interview (maybe even a book?).
He couldnt get out fast enough because of that failed relationship.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #39 –
Voss showed he hadn't and get left behind with an outdated game plan. Unlike others, I think our list isn't too bad but not the right person to to drive it. For years our attitude hasn't been consistently good, generally poor. We can tend to give up pretty easily. When all that happens people everywhere tend to revert to "poor list" when it's not always the case. We've generally been a bad club inside and out for 25 years, bar some odd years, especially under Ratten. Doesn't matter how good your list is, that situation means you do no good.

We started with a rebuild then they gave us Bolton, Teague and Voss to take charge of it. A Hardwick-type may have been different. He got 2 sides with ordinary attitudes too fire brilliantly.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #40 –
Agree on Hardwick Jim. He seems to know the right formula imho.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #41 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Agree on Hardwick Jim. He seems to know the right formula imho.
Hardwick has the perfect balance of Kent and best Mate.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
 

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #42 –
Quote from: laj – on
Voss showed he hadn't and get left behind with an outdated game plan. Unlike others, I think our list isn't too bad but not the right person to to drive it. For years our attitude hasn't been consistently good, generally poor. We can tend to give up pretty easily. When all that happens people everywhere tend to revert to "poor list" when it's not always the case. We've generally been a bad club inside and out for 25 years, bar some odd years, especially under Ratten. Doesn't matter how good your list is, that situation means you do no good.

We started with a rebuild then they gave us Bolton, Teague and Voss to take charge of it. A Hardwick-type may have been different. He got 2 sides with ordinary attitudes too fire brilliantly.
Skill level has always been an issue and the brand we play is terrible to watch.
The gap is getting wider between the best and worst teams imo in terms of quality of football being played.

Re: Carltons list changes needed to chase flag 17

Reply #43 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: laj – on
Voss showed he hadn't and get left behind with an outdated game plan. Unlike others, I think our list isn't too bad but not the right person to to drive it. For years our attitude hasn't been consistently good, generally poor. We can tend to give up pretty easily. When all that happens people everywhere tend to revert to "poor list" when it's not always the case. We've generally been a bad club inside and out for 25 years, bar some odd years, especially under Ratten. Doesn't matter how good your list is, that situation means you do no good.

We started with a rebuild then they gave us Bolton, Teague and Voss to take charge of it. A Hardwick-type may have been different. He got 2 sides with ordinary attitudes too fire brilliantly.
Skill level has always been an issue and the brand we play is terrible to watch.
The gap is getting wider between the best and worst teams imo in terms of quality of football being played.
Skills level can be a result of attitude too. Watching GWS tonight, who usually use it well, but tonight awful and dysfunctional.  Reflects how they are switched on. I'm sure most of our blokes at least don't come to the club as poor users but we seem to turn into that way. It's like catching a virus, except they catch the poor user syndrome. Remember in 2023. We went from poor users to good users in a matter of a week after the Ed Curnow camp. That was attitude.

Right now our brand of footy is horrible. The Richmond game made my eyes bleed watching it.