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Topic: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs (Read 2196 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #60 –
I'm a bit of a Billy Wilson fan.
He has pace, he does some of the link stuff very well, he gives and then runs on to create a further option, he gets good penetration with his kicks.

There are two areas I think he needs to work on.
He gets moved off the contest a bit too easily.
He also hesitates a bit too long after taking a mark and on a few occasions last night he held up play when we were on breaks.
Look, it could be because there were no options further a field , but it did slow us up when we were on the move.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #61 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Are we rating the performance based on our own biases. ;)
Those that supported Voss seem to think we did nothing different...suggesting we would have won anyway
Those who wanted him moved on are pointing out areas where they thought we changed things up.
There's an argument for both.

I don't think there were major differences to our performance from our game last week.
But I do think it was a more even performance across the game, and even those who didn't exactly shine contributed.

The thing is there was very little time to change things up too much given the short period of time between Voss's departure and the game.
I suspect that's why we didn't see wholesale changes to the team or the way we played.
The inclusion of Jack was the only change from a team that ran Brisbane close...and that was fair enough.
The VFL had a good win and  number of players put forward a claim for selection yesterday...so we may see something different next week....or not.
At any rate we did something we haven't done much this year...and that's win a game and get 4 points.

I personally think our performance against Brizvegas was indicative of an uptrend with presumably Fraser’s emphasis on more targeted kicking got us over the line.
A cynic might suggest that they moved on Voss because they knew we were approaching the corner, we were in too many games to finish the season with one win, it was going to turn eventually.
Now Voss is “justifiably” gone his replacement can start setting up his desk.

Full credit to Fraser and the footy dept for getting everyone focused, that win was great nourishment for the lads and supporters.
Let’s go BIG !
 

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #62 –
From what Voss was saying it seemed that he was the one who initiated the talk with Davies.
It was during that discussion it was apparent that Voss understood he was not getting a new contract.
He then chose to leave after the Brisbane game...the timing was more his choice.
As such he gave away the opporunity for wins against the Bulldogs and Port

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #63 –
Quote from: Lods – on
From what Voss was saying it seemed that he was the one who initiated the talk with Davies.
It was during that discussion it was apparent that Voss understood he was not getting a new contract.
He then chose to leave after the Brisbane game...the timing was more his choice.
As such he gave away the opporunity for wins against the Bulldogs and Port

It irrelevant, if I don’t have your support, I may as well let you get on with the changes that you obviously want to make.
Totally reasonable position.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #64 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
It irrelevant, if I don’t have your support, I may as well let you get on with the changes that you obviously want to make.
Totally reasonable position.

I tend to agree.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #65 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I thought our contested work was better than theirs and we slowed the game down later in the game by holding onto the ball and not trying to run with it to limit turnovers. It was the same game style imo but with a different finishing style but it was  again based around stoppage goals or free kick goals but not much system.
A win is a win and you take the  4 points but the big picture for me is rebuilding the list and getting better draft picks so winning is a short term view and I'd rather we just blood youngsters like Port are doing and finish we where we need to so we get max benefit at draft time.

I dunno about that method EB. I prefer we build a winning culture still get Walker and maybe attract a decent FA - the list is not anywhere near as bad as our ladder position IMO.

Get games into the 6 kids that played yesterday and add Walker to that and our young talent is more than ok.

Just for our culture I dont want to lose Cripps and a bottom 2 finish regardless of a few extra low picks will make it hard for him to want to stay and no chance of attracting talent in via a trade.

Get 8-9 wins finish 11th-12th and we will be viewed very differently internally and externally if we win 2 more games and finish bottom 2-3. Our club needs wins to be spirit and the winning culture much more IMO then an extra early pick or 2.

     
I guess where we differ is our opinion of the list, I think its terrible, slow, poorly skilled, unbalanced, wrong age profile/games played for a bottom team and built for a gameplan that Noah designed before he built the ark. The sacking of Agresta and Austin would tell me that Wright isnt convinced either and wants changes and im sorry but Id be trading Cripps and a couple of others while they have value. A few sugar hit wins like we saw with David Teague just wallpapers some massive cracks imo and leads us to another false dawn . I want a rebuild of the list, draft picks to help fix it and a List Manager who knows what he is doing.
To me making a wildcard final game would be the worst result as the club would think it has the list moving forward and  the cycle will start again and another coach will have his head on a stick outside ikon park in a couple of years.
Strip it all back, new coach, new captain, new leadership group, new List Manager and do it right...

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #66 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
Did we really play that much better than last week?

To me it was similar output, only difference was the opposition were not as good.
I thought the second half against Brisbane was basically similar to last night, just that last night we went at it a bit longer and didn't allow the Dogs to get the same run on. But a lot of it is Cripps, he has the most dominant game I've seen from him in two years, and was continually driving us forward even when we were wasting the footy.

Other than sticking with the plan better and longer, it was basically the same game tactics we've been trying to implement all season. I do find it odd that many only notice it now, after a win, they must be blinded by hatred at other times! To me it's been obvious we have been trying to implement a Lions style of play, I've been writing as much since about Rnd 3 or 4, just that we have been NBG at it!

I thought the young Dogs were not allowed the same degree of freedom, or were incapable of making the same space, that the Lions could.

If we were truly much better we should have won by 5 or 6 goals, I'm still a little disheartened by our tendency to limp to the end.
Not dropping off at any time during the 4 qtrs, not falling 8 goals behind like last week, not getting bowled over in the last half like other weeks. Just 4 qtrs. Might not have been a pretty 4 qtrs, as low scorers are, until the last qtr but we were able to keep going the whole game. Controlling tempo with uncontested marks at times, as 124 marks shows, left us with plenty of run when it mattered. We were smarter in that regard.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #67 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Strip it all back, new coach, new captain, new leadership group, new List Manager and do it right...

And that is the recipe we've been following since Parko retired  ::)
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #68 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Strip it all back, new coach, new captain, new leadership group, new List Manager and do it right...

And that is the recipe we've been following since Parko retired  ::)
I cant wait for another 5 years of holding up the ladder.  Whats another 100 games for 20 wins between Carlton supporters?  We might even get another number 1 draft pick whilst we are at it.  We have had the most of any club this century and still cant work out that the cost benefit doesn't weigh up.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #69 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: LP – on

I thought the second half against Brisbane was basically similar to last night, just that last night we went at it a bit longer and didn't allow the Dogs to get the same run on. But a lot of it is Cripps, he has the most dominant game I've seen from him in two years, and was continually driving us forward even when we were wasting the footy.

Other than sticking with the plan better and longer, it was basically the same game tactics we've been trying to implement all season. I do find it odd that many only notice it now, after a win, they must be blinded by hatred at other times! To me it's been obvious we have been trying to implement a Lions style of play, I've been writing as much since about Rnd 3 or 4, just that we have been NBG at it!

I thought the young Dogs were not allowed the same degree of freedom, or were incapable of making the same space, that the Lions could.

If we were truly much better we should have won by 5 or 6 goals, I'm still a little disheartened by our tendency to limp to the end.
Not dropping off at any time during the 4 qtrs, not falling 8 goals behind like last week, not getting bowled over in the last half like other weeks. Just 4 qtrs. Might not have been a pretty 4 qtrs, as low scorers are, until the last qtr but we were able to keep going the whole game. Controlling tempo with uncontested marks at times, as 124 marks shows, left us with plenty of run when it mattered. We were smarter in that regard.

There was a period in the game where we'd kicked 1 goal in 45 minutes of football.
They kicked 3.3 in that time.

If that was 5.1 or 6.0 goals instead, would that change your thought process?

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #70 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Strip it all back, new coach, new captain, new leadership group, new List Manager and do it right...

And that is the recipe we've been following since Parko retired  ::)
When Form Fours went out the door and the AFL went down the equalization path having the rich clubs being made to subsidize the poor clubs we never recovered. More Money was what bought our success, our List Management in particular has been horrendous and as I said to you pre season dont get your hopes up with a few fringe players replacing the quality we had leaving.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #71 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: northernblue – on
It irrelevant, if I don’t have your support, I may as well let you get on with the changes that you obviously want to make.
Totally reasonable position.

I tend to agree.

Yes
I also agree
The point is that Voss's departure is being framed as a 'sacking' rather than a failure to renew a contract.
Now, you can argue "little difference" ...the end result is the same.
But there is a difference... in terms of who determined the timing of that decision.
We will write that the club determined that timing, and over the years that will become "we sacked Voss midway through the year," when in fact the timing and method of his departure was determined by Voss.
He went out on his terms, at a time of his choosing.
Which version do you think he would prefer?

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #72 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: laj – on
Not dropping off at any time during the 4 qtrs, not falling 8 goals behind like last week, not getting bowled over in the last half like other weeks. Just 4 qtrs. Might not have been a pretty 4 qtrs, as low scorers are, until the last qtr but we were able to keep going the whole game. Controlling tempo with uncontested marks at times, as 124 marks shows, left us with plenty of run when it mattered. We were smarter in that regard.

There was a period in the game where we'd kicked 1 goal in 45 minutes of football.
They kicked 3.3 in that time.

If that was 5.1 or 6.0 goals instead, would that change your thought process?


Good try. Side do kick 3 goals in a row., Happens every week.  Not sure why you'd use 3 goals in a row as an issue to suit an argument. 5+ goals in a row, as we did every week, doesn't happen so much, and not on a weekly basis. Fact was the game was always close and stayed that way the first 3 qtrs with never a lead of more than 11pts,  until we opened up in the last qtr. That 2nd qtr we did kick one goal, but the Dogs were heading for a goalless qtr  until that very late one, which I guessed you missed. Barely anyone scored in that qtr. Played the 4 qtrs for the first time all year, running the game out.

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #73 –
Quote from: laj – on
Not dropping off at any time during the 4 qtrs, not falling 8 goals behind like last week, not getting bowled over in the last half like other weeks. Just 4 qtrs. Might not have been a pretty 4 qtrs, as low scorers are, until the last qtr but we were able to keep going the whole game. Controlling tempo with uncontested marks at times, as 124 marks shows, left us with plenty of run when it mattered. We were smarter in that regard.
You're like the MRP, judging things based primarily on outcome and not intent.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 10 2026 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #74 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


There was a period in the game where we'd kicked 1 goal in 45 minutes of football.
They kicked 3.3 in that time.

If that was 5.1 or 6.0 goals instead, would that change your thought process?


Good try. Side do kick 3 goals in a row., Happens every week.  Not sure why you'd use 3 goals in a row as an issue to suit an argument. 5+ goals in a row, as we did every week, doesn't happen so much, and not on a weekly basis. Fact was the game was always close and stayed that way the first 3 qtrs with never a lead of more than 11pts,  until we opened up in the last qtr. That 2nd qtr we did kick one goal, but the Dogs were heading for a goalless qtr  until that very late one, which I guessed you missed. Barely anyone scored in that qtr. Played the 4 qtrs for the first time all year, running the game out.
actually 5 goals happens in most games these days.  Collingwood jumped sydney just the other night, and then sydney did it back.  Geelong put 7 straight on against Brisbane in Brisbane. Lets not discuss hawthorn and Melbourne. 

Scoring 5 without a goal going in the other way is largely irrelevant when you might kick 0.4 from set shots. 

Not all situations are the same. Ive picked my examples from this round alone and I remember having done more analysis into it when teague was coaching, we were often one set shot missed  away from preventing those 5 goal run ons.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson