Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 10:10:09 am

Irrespective of the change in season, there are a couple of things to consider.

As the season wore on, with the roles changing, and different personnel getting more amongst it, we were always going to improve  as the season wore on.  Guys like Ainsworth, Hayward and Florent are living in Melbourne for the first time in ages (if at all).  As their routine settles, so will their performances.   Likewise, the absence of certain individuals means we were growing accustomed to not having someone like Charlie, JSOS and TDK around.  Some of the other players were also well down on form, and as we know in sports form is fickle.  It can turn quickly.

The dead cat bounce is also a thing.  The coach going clears the air in a way that can only be cleared by backing the coach in (dont tell me Vossy was backed in, Im not having that, everyone could see it was win or else, so the players probably felt additional pressure to perform.  They couldnt stand up, we generally wilt under pressure, thats the club culture.  It stems from taking the easy way out and sacking coaches so the cycle becomes self fulfilling.

Finally, we are having a patch where we beat a very wounded bulldogs, who are playing under manned.  Despite this they remain plucky and that win was better than advertised, but would it have come without the dead cat bounce?  We cant know.  Port dont want to win.  Sure they kind of want it, but they dont, there is no gain in it for them, because when Butters goes at the end of the season, they will go backwards again so reading anything into that match is fraught with danger.

Ergo, any turnaround statistically in the midst of this season, is a furphy, and largely we were building towards it anyway.  Tomorrow will tell us a lot more, but our next few matches pit us against West Coast and the Bombers.  We were a real chance of going 4 and 1 before a ball was kicked in all those matches, with or without the coach change.

Agree....I think its all been part of a plan engineered last season by Wright, even down to Fraser being the caretaker and the timing of his initial appointment. Why wasnt the senior assistant in Hansen caretaker? Much like Soloman going from board member to Assistant, Brad Scott would have known the writing was on the wall with that appointment and I reckon Voss would have had the same thoughts with Fraser. The club winning a few on the trot under Voss would have made the timing and decision to move him on awkward and more questions being asked. Im not a Voss spruiker but he was played like a piano this past 12 months as the Management played their games and had their fallguy in place and he would have been smart enough to have figured what was going on but forced to play along and I'll give him credit for his demeanor because he never arced up or questioned his position publically even though he knew he was finished in the role.

That's the question....
What is Wright's plan?
What's driving some of these decisions.

I reckon we dismiss some of them too easily.
Isn't the 'easy option' to look at the decision and think "Same old same old. Nothing changes.".... without considering why those decisions were made.
The problem is we're not always given access to all the reasoning behind a sacking or a failure to extend, so we fill the void.

I don't think there is an easy option when you're looking at not continuing with a coach.
Clubs won't just look at the W/L
They'll look at the reasons why that win/loss is poor.
Is it a list problem?
Is it the game style?
They'll look at coach/player dynamics.
How does the coach perform on match-day?

They'll look at the financial consequences in terms of sponsorship and membership.
They'll consider the media and the consequences for the club brand
They'll consider future options...Is the coach they want available?

But sometimes it's as simple as...there is a grander plan afoot that just needs some time to implement, that involves a total overhaul of a number of positions.

I don't believe that supporter pressure was as big a factor as some might believe in the Voss decision.
He still had a strong level of backing amongst supporters.

Supporter opposition was not at the level that demanded a change.
Many thought he was in a no/win situation...even set up to fail.
Some were still fully supportive.
Many still wanted to see how the season panned out.

But I personally think it was all pre-determined.
He was never going to be extended.
The language of him "continuing into 2026" was pretty much an indication that he wasn't going to be renewed beyond the end of this season.
There is a plan afoot, and I'm sure there will be aspects of it we won't all like and will criticize, especially if it affects our favourites.
But it will happen.
Most of the off-field carnage is done. No doubt the list will be next area of focus.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on Today at 01:49:33 pm

Agree....I think its all been part of a plan engineered last season by Wright, even down to Fraser being the caretaker and the timing of his initial appointment. Why wasnt the senior assistant in Hansen caretaker? Much like Soloman going from board member to Assistant, Brad Scott would have known the writing was on the wall with that appointment and I reckon Voss would have had the same thoughts with Fraser. The club winning a few on the trot under Voss would have made the timing and decision to move him on awkward and more questions being asked. Im not a Voss spruiker but he was played like a piano this past 12 months as the Management played their games and had their fallguy in place and he would have been smart enough to have figured what was going on but forced to play along and I'll give him credit for his demeanor because he never arced up or questioned his position publically even though he knew he was finished in the role.

That's the question....
What is Wright's plan?
What's driving some of these decisions.

I reckon we dismiss some of them too easily.
Isn't the 'easy option' to look at the decision and think "Same old same old. Nothing changes.".... without considering why those decisions were made.
The problem is we're not always given access to all the reasoning behind a sacking or a failure to extend, so we fill the void.

I don't think there is an easy option when you're looking at not continuing with a coach.
Clubs won't just look at the W/L
They'll look at the reasons why that win/loss is poor.
Is it a list problem?
Is it the game style?
They'll look at coach/player dynamics.
How does the coach perform on match-day?

They'll look at the financial consequences in terms of sponsorship and membership.
They'll consider the media and the consequences for the club brand
They'll consider future options...Is the coach they want available?

But sometimes it's as simple as...there is a grander plan afoot that just needs some time to implement, that involves a total overhaul of a number of positions.

I don't believe that supporter pressure was as big a factor as some might believe in the Voss decision.
He still had a strong level of backing amongst supporters.

Supporter opposition was not at the level that demanded a change.
Many thought he was in a no/win situation...even set up to fail.
Some were still fully supportive.
Many still wanted to see how the season panned out.

But I personally think it was all pre-determined.
He was never going to be extended.
The language of him "continuing into 2026" was pretty much an indication that he wasn't going to be renewed beyond the end of this season.
There is a plan afoot, and I'm sure there will be aspects of it we won't all like and will criticize, especially if it affects our favourites.
But it will happen.
Most of the off-field carnage is done. No doubt the list will be next area of focus.

Quote from: Lods – on Today at 03:06:34 pm

That's the question....
What is Wright's plan?
What's driving some of these decisions.

I reckon we dismiss some of them too easily.
Isn't the 'easy option' to look at the decision and think "Same old same old. Nothing changes.".... without considering why those decisions were made.
The problem is we're not always given access to all the reasoning behind a sacking or a failure to extend, so we fill the void.

I don't think there is an easy option when you're looking at not continuing with a coach.
Clubs won't just look at the W/L
They'll look at the reasons why that win/loss is poor.
Is it a list problem?
Is it the game style?
They'll look at coach/player dynamics.
How does the coach perform on match-day?

They'll look at the financial consequences in terms of sponsorship and membership.
They'll consider the media and the consequences for the club brand
They'll consider future options...Is the coach they want available?

But sometimes it's as simple as...there is a grander plan afoot that just needs some time to implement, that involves a total overhaul of a number of positions.

I don't believe that supporter pressure was as big a factor as some might believe in the Voss decision.
He still had a strong level of backing amongst supporters.

Supporter opposition was not at the level that demanded a change.
Many thought he was in a no/win situation...even set up to fail.
Some were still fully supportive.
Many still wanted to see how the season panned out.

But I personally think it was all pre-determined.
He was never going to be extended.
The language of him "continuing into 2026" was pretty much an indication that he wasn't going to be renewed beyond the end of this season.
There is a plan afoot, and I'm sure there will be aspects of it we won't all like and will criticize, especially if it affects our favourites.
But it will happen.
Most of the off-field carnage is done. No doubt the list will be next area of focus.

im still angry about it.

We have fallen because someone has better ideas as far as I can tell.

If their plan fails its more time wasted and yet another reason why we will wonder what if.

Understand.
There are two ways to look at it...
It's more of the same
or
There's a plan being put in place that's going to involve a bit of pain, but will set us up for future success..
We've embarked on a course.
We have no power to change it.
So we just have to watch it play out and hope for it to be a path to success.

If we don't jump up and down about it now. What is stopping the club from doing it again next time.....and again....and again.

There is a difference between 'moving on' and 'holding the club accountable'.

Whether its the right decision or the wrong decision, time will tell.
Even if it was the wrong decision, it may end up working.
Even if it was the right decision, it mey not end up working.

So guys...
Tell me how we make a noise.
Tell me the strategy.
Because half the supporter group is of an opposite opinion.
Around half of the group thought it was time for changes on one or all of those that have departed.
For every one jumping up and down, you would be getting someone telling you to move on.
And we're already starting to see many who weren't keen on the changes, accepting that it has happened.

What pressure do you put on a board or admin.
Our constitution virtually ensures the board is unaccountable.
A ticket to challenge is nowhere in sight.
The powers are like an umpire...they won't change their decisions.
So Voss, Lloyd, Austin, Agresta are no longer part of the Carlton story going forward.

Quote from: Lods – on Today at 05:50:09 pm

So guys...
Tell me how we make a noise.
Tell me the strategy.
Because half the supporter group is of an opposite opinion.
Around half of the group thought it was time for changes on one or all of those that have departed.
For every one jumping up and down, you would be getting someone telling you to move on.
And we're already starting to see many who weren't keen on the changes, accepting that it has happened.

What pressure do you put on a board or admin.
Our constitution virtually ensures the board is unaccountable.
A ticket to challenge is nowhere in sight.
The powers are like an umpire...they won't change their decisions.
So Voss, Lloyd, Austin, Agresta are no longer part of the Carlton story going forward.

There is a panel of Priestly, Wright, Davies, Simpson and Williams. Forget Simmo, he's getting paid to FIFO, the others have both nuts on the block with a very sharp axe sitting above them. Fark this up and they are Gonski and its the other board members that will take turns with the axe.

So guys...
Tell me how we make a noise.
Tell me the strategy.
Because half the supporter group is of an opposite opinion.
Around half of the group thought it was time for changes on one or all of those that have departed.
For every one jumping up and down, you would be getting someone telling you to move on.
And we're already starting to see many who weren't keen on the changes, accepting that it has happened.

What pressure do you put on a board or admin.
Our constitution virtually ensures the board is unaccountable.
A ticket to challenge is nowhere in sight.
The powers are like an umpire...they won't change their decisions.
So Voss, Lloyd, Austin, Agresta are no longer part of the Carlton story going forward.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on Today at 05:54:30 pm

There is a panel of Priestly, Wright, Davies, Simpson and Williams. Forget Simmo, he's getting paid to FIFO, the others have both nuts on the block with a very sharp axe sitting above them. Fark this up and they are Gonski and its the other board members that will take turns with the axe.

Did Voss's demise reflect greatly on those who chose him.
We'll forget who was even on the panel in the three to four years a new coach will get.
Wright will be the only one in the gun (if he is still there)...because it's pretty apparent  that he's the one making the calls.
He's our new villain for some.

#1 strategy is to point out the issues with the club to people like yourself that continue following based on blind faith.
You've pointed them out more than once.
But you have a very limited audience.
I just don't feel the same as you do.
The club will not give you a lot of attention, because they will be getting feedback that opposes your views.
I've pointed out before that you can't tell people how to support.
People will make up their own mind.

If enough people realise the problems with the club, the more likely it is to bring about enough noise to make a difference.

That suggests you don't have room for an alternative view.
That's 'lecturing' your own perceptions.
...and smacks of your views being superior.
Folks won't embrace that, in fact it's likely to turn them off.

I'm not in a position to try and oust the board personaly, nor do i think anyone else in here is. But its like when people go to the polls in an election.....every vote counts. Well every voice counts, eventually it may lead to a change.
But we're speaking with a 100,00 different voices. Not everyone thinks the same as you do

#2 strategy would be providing appropriate feedback from club surveys and the like. Get enough people being negative and they have to take notice.

Use the media, , social media, talkback radio etc.

People do exactly that, and if that really does have an effect it may be one of the reasons that changes have occurred.
Because some of the talkback this year has been savage.
Don't we want the club to ignore the outside noise.
Or does that only apply to our views.

How did Sydney supporters get Roos hired despite the fact Wallace had signed a contract?
It is possible.

Not sure what you're asking for here.
Do you want the club to give the new coach (and others) as much time as it takes to win a flag.
Roos was a change that was result driven.
It was a change that had an immediate time frame attached.
Changes in the way the club operates isn't as straight forward, and doesn't have the same fixed time frame.

But....if people just suck it up, lube up and bend over.....nothing is going to change.

This is the part you can't seem to grasp.
Not everyone feels the same.
Many are quite happy and looking forward to see how things develop.


You bring up the point that an umpire won't change their decision. This is true.
However, if the umpire hears the roar of the crowd and the boos when people see a replay, he realises that he probably made the wrong decision, and next time a similar thing occurs, he may do it differently. Without the 'noise' of the crowd....nothing changes.

So....make some noise!

I don't want to.
I'm interested in what the future looks like with new coaches and new recruiters
And as time goes by the feelings of anger will change to ones of acceptance and we'll all move on.