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Topic: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats? (Read 2492 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from AFL Rd 21 2026 Pre Ga...
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Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #45 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: tonyo – on
Agree, as good as Kouta was, he elite stuff only lasted for a relatively short period of time.

To be in the best 5 of the club, I reckon you need to have had a club-changing career, not just three or four seasons.   That puts many others in front of Kouta on the 'All Time' list.......

If we were only judging talent and impact, he rates pretty highly- but other names have had a longer-lasting and more profound effect on CFC.

Yes, when he was on there was no one better IMO. For comparison, he and Hird started and ended their careers at pretty much the same time, same age, similar number of games. I agree with your criteria, and judging by that, I would have Hird ahead of Kouta.


Agree, and the same reason i rate Ablett Junior career a tad higher than Judds

While Judds best was a tad better than Ablett's best IMO the fact Ablett did the same high level for quite a few more seasons than what Judds body allowed him to do that's what separates them  

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #46 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: PaulP – on


Yes, when he was on there was no one better IMO. For comparison, he and Hird started and ended their careers at pretty much the same time, same age, similar number of games. I agree with your criteria, and judging by that, I would have Hird ahead of Kouta.

So Pendles is the best player ever then? He's played the most games?? More success by comparison.
Or should you give it to Michael Tuck, close to most games and most finals and GF's.

The greatest players can have reasons they didn't sustain that success.

Depends on your criteria at the end of the day.

I'm picking Kouta over just about any other player out there. He changed the game and what recruiters started looking for......for better or worse.
It's obviously not just based on the number of games played - it's what happened during all of those games - not only what they did individually, but how they elevated those around them to be better players.

We've waited 30 years to get a leader with the aura of Nicholls and Kernahan.  I have a hopeful feeling that Harry Dean may be forged from the same mould.......
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #47 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


So Pendles is the best player ever then? He's played the most games?? More success by comparison.
Or should you give it to Michael Tuck, close to most games and most finals and GF's.

The greatest players can have reasons they didn't sustain that success.

Depends on your criteria at the end of the day.

I'm picking Kouta over just about any other player out there. He changed the game and what recruiters started looking for......for better or worse.
It's obviously not just based on the number of games played - it's what happened during all of those games - not only what they did individually, but how they elevated those around them to be better players.

We've waited 30 years to get a leader with the aura of Nicholls and Kernahan.  I have a hopeful feeling that Harry Dean may be forged from the same mould.......

Everyone will have a different criteria that they base their decision on.

Answer me this.....Does Michael Jordan 'lose points' because he was sub-par as a 40yo when playing at the Wizards?

His performances were nothing like 'peak Jordan' in the 90's.

IMO, it matters SFA, Jordan at his best is the goat. Whatever happened later in his career doesn't change that.

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #48 –
Some are influenced by peak performance, a great season or spectacular games, others think first of sustained performance over a career.

Cripps has both!

I think he has Kouta and some others covered in this regard, and to me Kouta along with Diesel might well be responsible for the two best individual seasons of footy I have ever seen.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #49 –
Yep
It's how you judge it, the criteria you use.

"Kouta is the best Carlton Footballer I've seen."

"Jesaulenko is the best Carlton footballer I've seen"

Both can be true. ;)

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #50 –
Couldn't  agree more with most of the comments here. Yep, all about the criteria you use. Subjective? So what!

My humble criteria would be:
Ability to turn a game. Juddy, Edwardo (Betts), Fev., The Buzz, Kouta, Dominator, Big Nick, Jezza, Crippa, Diesel, Charles C.,
Finals performer/reliability. Ratts, K Hunter, Doull, SOS & Serg, Braddles, Sticks, Ang, Wallsy, Southby, Swan, Wes L., Tiger, W Harmes, Walsh then the above minus Charles C. Reckon Fev and Simmo would have been.
Sustained high level of performance in terms of beating opponent and trustworthiness over weeks, months and seasons - dependable and reliable. Walsh, Juddy, Edwardo, Hewett, Simmo, Crippa, Fev., Ratts, K Hunter, D English, Lofts, Alex Marcou, then all of the above minus Tiger, Charles C and Kouta.
High level skills - consistently beating opponent, getting the aggott and delivering the aggott accurately to team mate. Juddy, Edwardo, Fev., Harmes, M Sexton, A McKay, Ang, Geoff Southby, then all of the above minus Charles C.
Hard, tough and mongrel determination/ruthlessness sustained over many seasons/career (the hard-nuts): Hewett, Walsh, Rhys, E Curnow, Crippa, Ratts, D English, W Harmes, I Collins, Curly A., Vin W., P Dean, SOS and Serg, Lofts.

Well, I've successfully convinced myself that there is not really a 'best' at anything, just groups over the decades who've been outstanding in a number of ways or one amazing way in particular!

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #51 –
No mention of The Hyphen here, and yet over my life supporting Carlton The Hyphen was as good of a performer in clutch games as any, and had many great momentum turning games. But he wasn't with us that long and arrived "a foreigner".

Many fans show a bit of team colour history bigotry, but Judd, Diesel and The Hyphen deserve to be part of the discussions even if their blood isn't pure! ;)

I've never understood why Ratts isn't in more of these discussions, career consistency, a 24x7 performer, he'd be up near the pinnacle in just about any other club's history.

But having said that, can you imagine the impact Cripps would have had if he was in a team surrounded by the likes of Diesel, Ratts, The Hyphen, Kouta, etc., etc., I doubt he would have faded into the background?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #52 –
There are two 'one club' champions who led both a team and a club out of the dark days into success......John Nicholls did, and hopefully Patrick Cripps still can. Juddy came in from elsewhere as a savior and gave us something to turn up and watch, while Sticks led a champion team through a purple patch. Doull great, Jezza great, Johnno great, etc etc but Nicholls and Cripps in tough times said jump on my back, let's go. Nicholls 1  Cripps 2 (if he can snag another JNM and a premiership, it would be a dead heat!!)

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #53 –
Quote from: LP – on
No mention of The Hyphen here, and yet over my life supporting Carlton The Hyphen was as good of a performer in clutch games as any, and had many great momentum turning games. But he wasn't with us that long and arrived "a foreigner".

Many fans show a bit of team colour history bigotry, but Judd, Diesel and The Hyphen deserve to be part of the discussions even if their blood isn't pure! ;)

I've never understood why Ratts isn't in more of these discussions, career consistency, a 24x7 performer, he'd be up near the pinnacle in just about any other club's history.

But having said that, can you imagine the impact Cripps would have had if he was in a team surrounded by the likes of Diesel, Ratts, The Hyphen, Kouta, etc., etc., I doubt he would have faded into the background?

Whoops... corrected. Terrible exclusion on my part, especially seeing how Rhys is one of my personal all time faves ...along with Dommy, Tiger and Jezza!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #54 –
I think this exercise is a bit like a pyramid

We have the top one or two at the top, but as we go down the pyramid the base widens.
Players like Ratten, Bradley, Rhys-Jones are in the pyramid for mine. They definitely crossed my mind.... just a few tiers from the top.

Re: How does Crippa rank among the panoply of Carlton greats?

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I think this exercise is a bit like a pyramid

We have the top one or two at the top, but as we go down the pyramid the base widens.
Players like Ratten, Bradley, Rhys-Jones are in the pyramid for mine. They definitely crossed my mind.... just a few tiers from the top.
Lods it comes down to who you have seen play first hand. I never go to see the likes of Nicholls, Jackson and that era play. My recollections of players live started in around 1974 when I went to my first Carlton (v Rich) game. I caught the tail end of blokes like Jezza, McKay, Walls, the last 10 yrs or so of Doull, Sheldon and Johnno.
Doull and Johnno left enought of an impression on me to rate them highly. Obviously 80s to now I have seen enough footy to judge.
I'll stand corrected but in the days before my time, players played in their positions for an entire career. Later players came along who could swing to either ends of the ground.
For me based on what I saw:
Doull was the most consistent (rarely beaten).
Williams was the most highly skilled on both sides of the body.
Kouta was the ideal hybrid in that he was able to play ANYWHERE on the ground and do things that were superhuman.
Sticks was our best forward and leader.
I can't split Hunter and Simpson in the category of pound for pound crazy courage.
Walls was probably the most stylish, elegant and natural footballer I have seen (albeit I saw the end of his)
Buzz was the most freakishly talented who could make the impossible possible.
SOS was the best FB I have ever seen play the game, played on the best FF's to played the game and for the most part had their measure.
Juddy was the most explosive and damaging footballer I have seen.
Crippa is the beast of all beasts when it comes to tough, contested footy.
How the hell anyone could rank the above in any sort of order its above my pay grade.
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