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Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #30 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Natanui averages less marks per game than Kreuzer  :o  Tippett averages one more mark per game than Kreuzer.  If they are exceptional, Kreuzer mustn't be far off the mark.  On the other hand, Cox and McEvoy average more marks per game than Tippett.  Leuenberger and Kreuzer are virtually on a par but Kreuzer takes more contested marks.  That's not bad for a bloke that doesn't make it to contests  ;)

http://youtu.be/6MUc6hXYBSM

It's easy to look at stats, but SpecialK takes a lot of his marks running through the corridor or off the HBF at kick ins. I am sure most posters in this thread are talking about contested marking inside F50. If you think SpecialK has been competitive in this area I am afraid we will just have to disagree.

We have not had a single tall(~200cm type) who has clunked reliable marks inside F50 since Matthew Allan and Corey McKernan pulled the pin in 2003.

If you looked at previous stats you would think blokes like Levi or Hammer were marking freaks, but on good games they take most of their marks between HBF and HFF which just slows transitions and embellishes their performance. In a handful of games Hendo outperformed them all!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #31 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Natanui averages less marks per game than Kreuzer  :o  Tippett averages one more mark per game than Kreuzer.  If they are exceptional, Kreuzer mustn't be far off the mark.  On the other hand, Cox and McEvoy average more marks per game than Tippett.  Leuenberger and Kreuzer are virtually on a par but Kreuzer takes more contested marks.  That's not bad for a bloke that doesn't make it to contests  ;)

Marking stats are never going to tell us much. Those marks could be in the back pocket, unmanned, they could be one out against a small opponent and we don't know what happens after a mark. NicNat, for example, can get 8 touches and turn a game. And whilst it is just one Mark a game more, that represents an almost 50% higher number.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #32 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@DJC

Could be a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" or "you can't be a prophet in your own land" DJC. When we see NickNats or Cox or Tippets etc. it's often in a highlight segment on TV or in 3 games in a year. With Kreuz we see him week in week out (when fit!) and we are all too painfully aware of the not so good moments as well.

I'm hoping to see him do well this year and I'm confident he can if he's fully over his injury setbacks.

Dear oh dear, I am not claiming SpecialK is no good and I am sure nobody else is either. In certain aspects of his game he is elite, but to extend that positivity to his marking and his tap ruckwork is just foolish.

IMHO, if we had had one coach with some foresight we might today be calling SpecialK one of the games elite mid-fielders!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #33 –
@LP

I never thought for a second that you thought he was no good LP. I was just trying to say that we can sometimes be more critical of players we are very familiar with than others we may only see occasionally for a limited amount of time - often their best efforts. A normal human tendency.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #34 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@DJC

Could be a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" or "you can't be a prophet in your own land" DJC. When we see NickNats or Cox or Tippets etc. it's often in a highlight segment on TV or in 3 games in a year.


That's because they take the big contested marks. When was the last time Kreuzer took a big critical mark where you thought 'Wow that was some mark'? I can think of one back in 2008 in his first year. The above mentioned players IMPACT games and as EB pointed out in an earlier post, Kreuzer doesn't.

And I agree, being Carlton we see the best and the worst compared to the others.

Have you ever had a bet riding on a non-Carlton match for quite a bit of dough? It's amazing how quick you can find faults in players you previously thought were invincible. When there's something riding on it the poor play stands out, as does the great stuff.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #35 –
@PI2C
Know what you're saying Carrots. It's the same if you are watching a game not involving the Blues and you are barracking for one of the teams - suddenly their players  don't look so good.  ;D
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #36 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
That's because they take the big contested marks. When was the last time Kreuzer took a big critical mark where you thought 'Wow that was some mark'? I can think of one back in 2008 in his first year. The above mentioned players IMPACT games and as EB pointed out in an earlier post, Kreuzer doesn't.

Here is the point PI2C, SpecialK was never that type of player.

Right through his junior career he was a hard running, heavy tackling inside stoppage ruckmen who linked up through the corridor or wing using his aerobic capacity to burn off opponents. He never really spent a lot of time in defense or up forward, that was a bogus assessment put on him by so called experts saying stuff like "He looks like a ruckmen who can play forward or KPP!"

SpecialK's go is in the ruck at stoppages and in the midfield, he knows where to run, when to run there and how to use his body at ground level. Any other use of SpecialK is a waste, now we are going to go with 206 who is elite at tap work and a spud in every other aspect of the game. Anyway too late now, the club has chosen what is in my opinion "the downhill and safe" option.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #37 –
I think MM will expect both Warnock and Kreuz to pose a threat and take marks when resting in the forward zone. OK their record  to date leaves something to be desired, but if they don't perform this year then the club will be seeking alternatives for the longer term IMO. It'll be interesting to see how they go.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #38 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I think MM will expect both Warnock and Kreuz to pose a threat and take marks when resting in the forward zone. OK their record  to date leaves something to be desired, but if they don't perform this year then the club will be seeking alternatives for the longer term IMO. It'll be interesting to see how they go.

Expect Wood to be accelerated onto the senior list if there is a LTI!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Levi is only 23 and as they say, the big blokes take longer to develop.....

If he can improve his kicking no reason he can't hold down a KPP IMO.

Don't know why everyone thinks Levi can't kick... he can and has. I've seen him kick rippers. His only 'kicking' problem is between the lugholes. When his head is right he is a terrific kick.


Baggers...He wont be a good kick while he has that awkward action highlighted by a poor ball drop......he can kick some ripper goals but seems to miss the easy ones too often for my liking.
I dont know why the club cannot get a decent coach to change his kicking style and improve his accuracy....the other parts of his game are ok .

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #40 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I think MM will expect both Warnock and Kreuz to pose a threat and take marks when resting in the forward zone. OK their record  to date leaves something to be desired, but if they don't perform this year then the club will be seeking alternatives for the longer term IMO. It'll be interesting to see how they go.

Expect Wood to be accelerated onto the senior list if there is a LTI!

That's certainly the likely reason for his recruitment.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #41 –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pht_GDEZKMM
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #42 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I think MM will expect both Warnock and Kreuz to pose a threat and take marks when resting in the forward zone. OK their record  to date leaves something to be desired, but if they don't perform this year then the club will be seeking alternatives for the longer term IMO. It'll be interesting to see how they go.


Cookie...the only threat those two provide down forward is to our other forwards by getting in the road or dropping vital marks that others might take.......Warnock averages two marks a game, four kicks and has a goal average of 0.19, good thing he gets 22 hitouts a game or someone might start questiong what he actually is getting paid for... :)
Lets say Warnock has an amazing year and doubles his stats.......thats 4 marks a game and a goal average of 0.38....thats about 8 goals for the season........

Kruezer...stats are not too different to Dean Cox....six kicks a game, three marks and a goal average of around 0.5..........plus 17 hitouts........if Kruezer could double his output then we would have a useful contributor both in the ruck and down forward.

Warnock to me is next to useless and his hitouts dont justify his place in the team if your throw in his poor contribution in every other part of the game...the only redeeming feature you might use in his defense is his extra size might reduce the effectiveness of the other teams ruckman and he earns points for that and in terms of clearannces that might be seen as important.
But in terms of forward play he has no input..zilch, nada, zero, nil.......

Casboult stats.....6 kicks a game, 4.65 marks, goal average of 0.82 but only around 7 hitouts a game...though you have to factor in he has less time on the ball......that tells you that Levi needs to mark the footy or he wont get the ball on the ground very often. He also averages 1.12 beinds a game so the odds are against him kicking straight

Rowe stats...similar to Casboults except Rowe averages 0.9 goals a game and only 0.7 behinds.....but Stevie Wonder could tell you he is a better kick its that obvious.....

Wood...similar stats to Casboult and Rowe, average about 0.3 goals per games but only 0.17 behinds...so if by luck he does take a mark near goal he is a good chance to kick it...add 15 hitouts to those stats....

Based on that IMO you wouldnt consider Warnock and would go with Kruezer and either one of Casboult or Rowe....and if you wanted a better kicking forward option its Rowe and easily......problem is with Rowe he  usually gets his stats in one half and doesnt have enough gas  in the other half to contribute. If Rowe could get fit and play 4 quarters he would be the man to partner Kruezer IMO.....if Buttifant is as a good as they say maybe he can make it happen.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #43 –
@EB1

Interesting stuff Elwood. Let's hope Rowe can be more effective by playing out full games this year then. I was hoping he would come good to complete the fairy tale ending but I sort of forgot about him last year and probably gave up on him a bit.

I must remember that he was still recovering from a serious medical condition and its debilitating treatment so we may get a pleasant surprise this year.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Carlton ruckman Matthew Kreuzer says the Blues must stand up - the Age

Reply #44 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@EB1

Interesting stuff Elwood. Let's hope Rowe can be more effective by playing out full games this year then. I was hoping he would come good to complete the fairy tale ending but I sort of forgot about him last year and probably gave up on him a bit.

I must remember that he was still recovering from a serious medical condition and its debilitating treatment so we may get a pleasant surprise this year.

I am hoping he is full recovered Cookie and his health problems are over and this preseason has put an edge on him.....I think he is capable of kicking bags of 5-6 goals because he does kick the ball well and doesnt need many shots to be dangerous. NAB cup is bery important for him IMO as i think Mick makes early season calls on players eg Duigan, Laidler and its hard to get back into the good books once Mick has marked your cards...holding his marks and chasing are also important areas for him to improve. He also needs to show some vigour for a bloke his size...Levi wll throw his weight around and I'd like to see Rowe do the same...at 198cm he isnt small and has to be more physical.