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Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #15 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
As Japanese society has - your talking about a trans Asian phenomenon there, it's not restricted to the Chinese. It won't stop Chinese industry producing better and better quality goods into the future. The dependency on "artisans" in manufacturing has reduced dramatically and will continue to do so. The Chinese will eventually no doubt face the same challenges as Japan and the West as its labour costs increase and companies seek cheaper alternatives.

Cookie, I agree that technically there is no good reason why that won't happen. But my Artisan comment is directed more at the cultural aspects not the technicalities, and I firmly believe that culturally there is a significant difference.

"Face" and respect really still does means something to Japanese youth, many of those Trans-Asian youth you refer to in the above comment are what the Chinese themselves refer to as "Overseas Chinese"! It is a Western perspective to lump them all in an all encompassing "Asian" category, Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, Philippine are all very different cultures.

But back on topic, one culture covets efficiency and economy of purpose, the other just seems to consume.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #16 –
@LP
I'm not taking issue with your comparisons of the cultures and mores of the two peoples LP, all I'm saying is that IMO and from experience and what I've read on the subject, due to the methods and techniques of modern manufacturing it won't be a show stopper, that's all.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #17 –
Touching on LP's description of generational upward mobile, yada yada yada, that seems to be evident of all the youngsters in modern society.  Its not cultural, it seems to be generational, and global at that.

AS for Japan vs China manufacturing.

Japan have always been traditionally strong manufacturers.  Yamaha (audio and motorcycle) Honda, Sony, Toshiba, Fujitsu, Kawasaki, Isuzu, Suzuki, Toyota, Lexus.  All of it prestigious and quality made goods and services.

The cheap manufacturing really did its thing in the 80's.  We are a throwaway society for it.  Something breaks, you dont fix it, you replace it.  Its cheaper to do that.  Given the way technology is moving these days, that special TV you spent 10 grand on 5 years ago?  Yep, its probably worth less than a grand today.

Unless you are buying a car, or a product like an oven, dishwasher, fridge, washing mashine, the sort of thing that performs a function for you with little innovation in the industry, its not worth spending the extra dollars.

I will buy the most cost effective television.  Note this doesnt mean cheap, this means cheap to run dailly whilst having all the latest features.  No doubt in less than 10 years, todays TV's will be superceded.  The brand is almost irrelevant.  They are all reasonably good unless you go for the cheapest of the cheap.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #18 –
I understand everyone's perspective, I started this thread because of the irony surrounding the breakdown of the Chinese Lunar Rover (Yutu, aka Jade Rabbit).

This was a center piece of China's superior technologies, faster, better, cheaper than the rest. Yet in just a few days of operation it failed sitting on the lunar landscape like a piece of rubble in a junk yard.

No doubt just getting it there was a tough gig, but this wasn't some mass produced piece of cheap disposable utility or gadget. It was a beacon of technology, and it is b0rked prematurely.

Contrast this with NASA, JSA and ESO projects. Many had design lives of months or years and still work a decade after their design life.

This comparison tells us something, we should take note!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #19 –
Quote from: LP – on
I understand everyone's perspective, I started this thread because of the irony surrounding the breakdown of the Chinese Lunar Rover (Yutu, aka Jade Rabbit).

This was a center piece of China's superior technologies, faster, better, cheaper than the rest. Yet in just a few days of operation it failed sitting on the lunar landscape like a piece of rubble in a junk yard.

No doubt just getting it there was a tough gig, but this wasn't some mass produced piece of cheap disposable utility or gadget. It was a beacon of technology, and it is b0rked prematurely.

Contrast this with NASA, JSA and ESO projects. Many had design lives of months or years and still work a decade after their design life.

This comparison tells us something, we should take note!

What about the US rocket that didnt even make it out of the atmosphere?

Problems occur.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
What about the US rocket that didnt even make it out of the atmosphere?

Problems occur.

They do, but there is tragedy and there is irony!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #21 –
There are differences I see between Japan's industrial growth and China's which are different and important for the future. After WWII the USA dismantled a lot of Japanese Industry to punish them but quickly realised they had done the wrong thing and needed to rebuild Japan to create a strong japan economy to feed the people and keep in front in the race with the Sovet Union. They pumped money and Technology into Japan and helped turn japan into the 3rd largest Industrial giant in the world.
Japan were then able to become a self governed western like power under the watchful eye of America who controlled their lifeline which was oil/petrol.....China however is still a communist country with a state run economy...that state run economy similar to the Soviet Union will prevent China from taking the next step and will hinder any improvements in quality.

Enter India........land of the very rich and extremely poor but those rich are mighty rich and mighty smart  and with no communist state beelding them dry and holding them back they will overtake China and become a bigger player than the Chinese IMO.....

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #22 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Enter India........land of the very rich and extremely poor but those rich are mighty rich and mighty smart  and with no communist state bleeding them dry and holding them back they will overtake China and become a bigger player than the Chinese IMO.....

Great minds must think alike!!!!  ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #23 –
The comparison of China to India is an interesting one.

Don't forget that China has a large and growing class of affluent to very affluent people who are driving domestic demand for quality and sophisticated goods. OK the state is a strong presence but capitalism also plays a big part in influencing and driving events.

India on the other hand is more of a conventional capitalist economy with an increasingly wealthy middle class. However, there are still very deep social divisions and from what I've read, tensions run very high in some parts of the country among the "have nots", not to mention the widespread religious bigotry. For an interesting insight to this, read the book "White Tiger" by Aravind Adiga.

I would not like to be placing serious bets on India becoming a bigger force in the world than China.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #24 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
The comparison of China to India is an interesting one.

Don't forget that China has a large and growing class of affluent to very affluent people who are driving domestic demand for quality and sophisticated goods. OK the state is a strong presence but capitalism also plays a big part in influencing and driving events.

India on the other hand is more of a conventional capitalist economy with an increasingly wealthy middle class. However, there are still very deep social divisions and from what I've read, tensions run very high in some parts of the country among the "have nots", not to mention the widespread religious bigotry. For an interesting insight to this, read the book "White Tiger" by Aravind Adiga.

I would not like to be placing serious bets on India becoming a bigger force in the world than China.

Cookie...You would have got good money to say that India would never control world cricket but they do now........the Indians are smarter IMO.....they will have the Chinese working for them and already have a big business presence in China even though both countries are still sparring with border conflicts etc.....China dont have the same presence in India.
While India is a fractured country with different racial/religious groups they all come together when it comes to disliking China as well.

General Barney Banana had to stop them in Fiji as they had taken over 90% of the business interests and had the local population as their employees.......look at mining in Queensland, trace back the companies and see who the owners are?

Re: Poluting the Moon

Reply #25 –
@EB1

Elwood, there are no doubt many enterprising and hard working Indians around the world who have and will become very very successful, along with some Indian corporations. I have worked alongside many such Indian people during my career both here and overseas and I take nothing away from them.
However, in a race to become a global superpower, which includes military might, financial clout and political influence, I'm not as convinced as you are that they will win out over the Chinese.

Reality always wins in the end.