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Topic: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ?? (Read 118345 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #225 –
Exactly ElwoodBlues1.

Realistically if we are going to go the hindsight avenue, we should take the best route at least and state that the major fork up was letting Jacobs go.

He is night and day better than all of them and was at our club too.

That Sydney final, 3rd quarter it was him in tandem with Carrazzo and Judd that almost dragged us back into it.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #226 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Even Rowe is more value around the ground and his ruckwork is reasonable.....hitouts unless directed straight to your players are overated.....Warnock got plenty but directed them nowhere IMO.  As Carlisle showed its more handy to have a player who can get the footy and compete...Hampson's ruck and field play was ok it was just that dumb idea of turning him into a KP Forward that stuffed his career with us up along with injuries.

Not only was playing them as forwards stupid, it was a contributing factor to their injury problems which makes the idea twice as bad!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #227 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Realistically if we are going to go the hindsight avenue, we should take the best route at least and state that the major fork up was letting Jacobs go.
Jacobs was never wasted playing up forward, he couldn't be left there he was too slow and we had the likes of Fev, Kennedy, O'hAilpin and Waite playing forward for most of his time at the Blues.

If Kreuzer and Hampson had received the same respect as ruckmen, allowing them to primarily ruck, they would have surpassed Jacobs by some margin because they could both be mobile enough to do what Carlilse did last night as well as be competitive in the ruck!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #228 –
Maybe LP, maybe not.

Jacobs can play footy.  The others are yet to prove that they can.

Jacobs proved he could play footy with us.

Its not hard.  Hampson and Grigg collided last week against us which provided me a moment of sheer hilarity.  The guy might have tools to learn how to play, but he still lacks the nous to go with the lack of ability, and even had we played him in the right position we have proven that we cannot develope blokes regardless of their talent level.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #229 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Maybe LP, maybe not.

Jacobs can play footy.  The others are yet to prove that they can.

Jacobs proved he could play footy with us.

Its not hard.  Hampson and Grigg collided last week against us which provided me a moment of sheer hilarity.  The guy might have tools to learn how to play, but he still lacks the nous to go with the lack of ability, and even had we played him in the right position we have proven that we cannot develope blokes regardless of their talent level.
Thry you keep focussing on Hampson, but the crux of the debate is about what makes real value as a ruckmen.

By my reckoning the two best individual games by ruckmen in the last ten years were Dean Cox in Perth against Norp(I think) about four or five years ago, and Matthew Kreuzer vs Sydney 2011. In both games they got no more than a couple of dozen taps.

Wood is more crippled than Kreuzer, but as a ruck Wood is worth five Rob Warnocks.

PS: Even the media are taking the piss, after BumberT laughed at the ruck question, the media only named / queried one Carlton player in the Malthouse conference. It was Warnock, and MM refused to comment and it is a pity he didn't do that earlier in the week!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #230 –
I never really thought much of Warnock LP.  He was simply a gamble that has not worked out.

He has shown glimpses, like everyone else, but failed to go on with it.

Hopefully for him it can turn around, but his time is up at Carlton.

Cameron Wood was always rubbish, and unless he has a Brad Ottens-esque turnaround he too will be a player we are moaning about in about 12 weeks.

Unfortunately, Kreuzer was and still is the potential best of the lot, and until he can get his body right we will have no idea how it pans out.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #231 –
Hindsight, and what's happened since, clearly shows that Jacobs was the one we should've kept.

However, at the time, he was only a rookie and didn't have half the potential as the others.

As it turns out, Hammer, whilst he improved, couldn't reach his lofty potential.
Kreuzer, cannot stay out on the park and has lost his mobility.
Warnock, also had injury worries, and has lived up to not a whole lot besides his height.

Wood can give us something around the ground and up forward.
Rowe can give us something around the ground and up forward AND down back.....given the right matchups.

Right now Wood+Rowe should be our ruckmen.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #232 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Warnock has to be dropped this week and traded out at years end.......

He shouldn't of been traded in to the club in the first place but that's another story.

Our ruck division is looking very feeble right now with Warnock being an ineffective beanpole, Kruezer out injured and a  possibility of never returning to full fitness whilst Wood is a last gasp back-up.

We traded out Hampson & Jacobs and have not replaced either of them. 

If Kreuzer can't get back and as Elwood stated, Warnock has to go, we are going to be like old Mother Hubbard staring at the bare cupboard with Wood the only one left.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #233 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Hindsight, and what's happened since, clearly shows that Jacobs was the one we should've kept.

At the time, I argued strongly on here that Jacobs was the one we needed to keep and it should of been out of Warnock & Hampson as to who we traded. Naturally others thought I'd been out in the desert too long and was affected by the sun.

Jacobs had played extremely well in the last couple of games of the season as well as a losing final, clearly he was way better than the others yet we wilted and let him go. We fought tooth and nail with Port to keep Jordan Russell (I also said bugger him and trade him but got howled down) yet we refused to fight for Jacobs with the same veracity.

We have rocks in our head when it comes to business acumen and list management.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #234 –
we had ruckman because at one stage a few years back, they were a tradable commodity
trouble is, we traded 2, and remain with one we're not sure what he is (currently injured)
the other is a spud that cant kick

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #235 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Boort are one goalpost short and have some interest if we supply cement and a post hole digger as part of the deal....

I don't know why I'm laughing at that post but I am, its got to that stage now.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #236 –
Quote from: TheSheik – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
Hindsight, and what's happened since, clearly shows that Jacobs was the one we should've kept.

At the time, I argued strongly on here that Jacobs was the one we needed to keep and it should of been out of Warnock & Hampson as to who we traded. Naturally others thought I'd been out in the desert too long and was affected by the sun.

Jacobs had played extremely well in the last couple of games of the season as well as a losing final, clearly he was way better than the others yet we wilted and let him go. We fought tooth and nail with Port to keep Jordan Russell (I also said bugger him and trade him but got howled down) yet we refused to fight for Jacobs with the same veracity.

We have rocks in our head when it comes to business acumen and list management.

Granted, you might have got those ones right, although JR was getting us a 3rd rounder only.

You throw enough darts with your eyes shut, eventually you'll hit the board. :P

But your last line is spot on.

We need to make some big moves now to set us up for the future.
Trade Kreuzer.
Let Gibbs go.
Offer up Yarran to see what people are willing to part with.

Have a chat to Judd and see if there is anything else he wants to do with his footballing career. He might want to go to Melbourne to fulfill a promise he gave his grandma. Make it happen, cash in.

Think outside the box and make something happen.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #237 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Hindsight, and what's happened since, clearly shows that Jacobs was the one we should've kept.

However, at the time, he was only a rookie and didn't have half the potential as the others.

As it turns out, Hammer, whilst he improved, couldn't reach his lofty potential.
Kreuzer, cannot stay out on the park and has lost his mobility.
Warnock, also had injury worries, and has lived up to not a whole lot besides his height.

Wood can give us something around the ground and up forward.
Rowe can give us something around the ground and up forward AND down back.....given the right matchups.

Right now Wood+Rowe should be our ruckmen.

At the time Jacobs was our 3rd- 4th ruckman, out of contract and knowing that he decided he wanted to go home knowing he'd be first ruck. We'd never be able to guarantee him that. We had Kreuzer and Hammer out at the time, hence why Jacobs was playing. That 2010 final both Warnock and Jacobs were outstanding. No reason at that point to think Jacabs was going to play in front of Kreuzer and Warnock, he knew that, and went home. Of course when an out of contract player leaves you get royally screwed at the draft table given the alternative is getting nothing for him.

If one had their time again we'd have given West Coast picks 1 and 3, got Judd, kept Kennedy, Jacobs may have stayed then knowing he may have got a ruck gig with Warnock. With Warnock injured often then Jacobs may have ended up first ruck.

Hindisght sight is wonderful.....and bloody painful!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #238 –
Nathan Brown's comments about Nic Natanui apply equally to our rucks:

Quote
Two-time All-Australian forward Nathan Brown added to the criticism of the Eagles' player on Sunday by arguing on The Sunday Footy Show "you can't be elite as a ruckman if you only take one mark in [four] weeks, so Nic Naitanui has got a lot more to do".

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nic-naitanui-severely-shackled-by-injury-says-worsfold-20140427-zr0d1.html#ixzz30A3gNmuE

Warnock didn't manage any marks against the Eagles and that puts us at a big disadvantage.  I thought he had turned the corner against the Bulldogs where he provided a marking target between CHB and CHF but was back to his worst against the Eagles.

Casboult, as the back-up ruckman, was ineffective in the ruck but did very well with his marking around the ground.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #239 –
Watching the game against Sydney on Saturday night confirmed for me that Warnock is probably one of the worst rucks going around at the moment. I have no idea why we have persisted with this guy. I reckon I could count on one hand the number of great games he has had, 1 or 2 this year, and maybe 1 or 2 last year is about all I can remember.
He continually gets his hand on the ball first in the ruck contest, and invariably knocks it down the throat of an opposition player. I reckon we would be far better off having an extra midfielder in the centre and not contesting the ruck, than continuing with Warnock in the centre.