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Topic: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ?? (Read 143336 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #300 –
Quote from: Rational_Expectations – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: MosquitoFleet – on
atm my ranking

1. Wood
2 Warnock & Kruezer equal 2nd

That'll change! ;)

Well you'd hope so.

1. Kreuzer
2. Wood

Daylight.

3. Warnock

Each performing to his ability and fit... you've got it spot on. Should Kreuzer and Wood remain fit (no injuries) then it could be a long season for 206 'kicking the dew off.'
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #301 –
I was just trying to process this... I can't actually remember how well Kreuzer goes as a true ruck.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #302 –
Quote from: deags – on
I was just trying to process this... I can't actually remember how well Kreuzer goes as a true ruck.

I remember sitting in the b&f the year before he was injured, just a kid. I remember being chuffed at him basically getting votes in every game in the first 10 rounds. Never got best but nearly always polled. I thought he could turn out to be anything.... Long time ago now.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #303 –
Quote from: deags – on
I was just trying to process this... I can't actually remember how well Kreuzer goes as a true ruck.

If you can find it, watch Rnd 13 2011 vs Sydney, SpecialKs 2nd game back after his first major injury, that will remind you! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #304 –
As a tap ruckman, a fit Kreuzer is competitive against the best.  Some of his set play forward line boundary throw in work is superb.  However, although he may get beaten in actual hitouts, it is his second and third efforts that lift him above most other ruckmen.

I remember several games during which Kreuzer started in the centre square, but not as the ruckman.  His size, strength and ability below his knees gave us an advantage.  I'm not saying that having Kreuzer as an on-baller will work all the time, but I suspect that's what Mick means when he says Kreuzer is a multi-position player.

The other thing I like about Kreuzer is his ability to deliver a text book hip and shoulder; no free kick and a sore and sorry opponent  :)
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #305 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: deags – on
I was just trying to process this... I can't actually remember how well Kreuzer goes as a true ruck.

If you can find it match Rnd 13 2011 vs Sydney, SpecialKs 2nd game back after his first major injury, that will remind you! ;)

yes..absolutely correct - MK was phenomenal that game..I still maintain the view he came back too early though, as he is been down hill since then...

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #306 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I remember several games during which Kreuzer started in the centre square, but not as the ruckman.

Which games were these as I do not remember and I would like to review. My opinion is this would be a bad move.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #307 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: DJC – on
I remember several games during which Kreuzer started in the centre square, but not as the ruckman.

Which games were these as I do not remember and I would like to review. My opinion is this would be a bad move.

Back in Ratten days he tried this sporadically a few times in conjunction with Hampson rucking. Kreuzer did OK, but we were a bit too slow and not agile enough in the midfield when we had the two ruckmen in there.

But a fit Kreuzer doesn't need that setup, like Cox he can ruck and still rove his own ball.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #308 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: DJC – on
I remember several games during which Kreuzer started in the centre square, but not as the ruckman.

Which games were these as I do not remember and I would like to review. My opinion is this would be a bad move.

Back in Ratten days he tried this sporadically a few times in conjunction with Hampson rucking. Kreuzer did OK, but we were a bit too slow and not agile enough in the midfield when we had the two ruckmen in there.

But a fit Kreuzer doesn't need that setup, like Cox he can ruck and still rove his own ball.

That's right LP, it was when Ratten was trying to squeeze several ruckmen into the side.  It worked OK a couple of times but really depended on the opposition.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #309 –
Quote from: DJC – on
That's right LP, it was when Ratten was trying to squeeze several ruckmen into the side.  It worked OK a couple of times but really depended on the opposition.

Our coaches / line coaches have generally been dumbar5es.

The setup with the resting ruck option up forward is OK but only if you can deliver the ball half decently. Since the departure of Houlihan our list sprays the ball like a tomcat pissing on the front door, and back then under those two talls conditions when the ruckmen contested inside F50 Eddie Betts would be flying against them rather than crumbing! We had a forward line that wasn't being out-marked yet we had nobody crumbing! The alternative setup was to have blokes like 1AW, Robbo and Simmo bombing the ball forward off the HBF to a small forward line and watching Betts and Garlett get out-marked body on body time after time!

Back in Fev's day he had Houlihan and Scotland hitting him up on leads, that is if we could manage to feed the ball forward through them, the rest of the time it was a chook raffle.

Now with the departure of Scotland I don't think we have a single A Grade ball user on the list, some very talented goal kickers, but not one bloke who can reliably put the ball to the forwards advantage. I maintain Carlton are the worst ball using side in the AFL, and by some margin! It looks like our recruiters put no emphasis on accurate disposal under pressure as a recruit requirement. It's the arrogance of the coaches that cause this situation, they genuinely believe if they are given a super-athlete they can teach them to do the rest, but it's a bullsh1te belief and the Dawks, Cats and Swans have proven it time and time again by recruiting footballers first and slaughtering the opposition regularly!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #310 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: DJC – on
That's right LP, it was when Ratten was trying to squeeze several ruckmen into the side.  It worked OK a couple of times but really depended on the opposition.

Our coaches / line coaches have generally been dumbar5es.

The setup with the resting ruck option up forward is OK but only if you can deliver the ball half decently. Since the departure of Houlihan our list sprays the ball like a tomcat pissing on the front door, and back then under those two talls conditions when the ruckmen contested inside F50 Eddie Betts would be flying against them rather than crumbing! We had a forward line that wasn't being out-marked yet we had nobody crumbing! The alternative setup was to have blokes like 1AW, Robbo and Simmo bombing the ball forward off the HBF to a small forward line and watching Betts and Garlett get out-marked body on body time after time!

Back in Fev's day he had Houlihan and Scotland hitting him up on leads, that is if we could manage to feed the ball forward through them, the rest of the time it was a chook raffle.

Now with the departure of Scotland I don't think we have a single A Grade ball user on the list, some very talented goal kickers, but not one bloke who can reliably put the ball to the forwards advantage. I maintain Carlton are the worst ball using side in the AFL, and by some margin! It looks like our recruiters put no emphasis on accurate disposal under pressure as a recruit requirement. It's the arrogance of the coaches that cause this situation, they genuinely believe if they are given a super-athlete they can teach them to do the rest, but it's a bullsh1te belief and the Dawks, Cats and Swans have proven it time and time again by recruiting footballers first and slaughtering the opposition regularly!

I think Yaz has shown on numerous occasions that he is able to deliver the ball very well to leading forwards. He is good as putting it at their throats, with a very low, pin-pointed pass. Murph does well too. They may not be Heath Scotlands, but they still do pretty well. Other than those two, i'm not very confident.
Why did the Carlton FC fall? So they could learn to pick themselves up.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #311 –
Bryce Gibbs is usually good at hitting to a teamates advantage, and Menzel is absolue class when he does it but he is usually finishing.

At the end of the day, for an entire list to have the same deficiency, that is a teaching/learning issue as well as recruitment.

Why?  Well its a basic that should be being taught much earlier in the piece.  Its not even about having a razor accurate disposal, the difference between a good or poor ball user, is the ability to know their limitations.

Simply, you will hit more targets, more frequently to advantage if you pick targets that you can genuinely hit more often than not.  If you try and thread the needle to a high risk high reward option, and you hit that target 2 out of 5 times, you will look ordinary for it.  If you hit a target 5 out of 5 times because its an "easier" option, then that proves you can sum up a situation and back yourself accordingly to hit the target and you end up a star of the comp because you never waste the footy.  (This might be the secret to the Hawks mythology of drafting quality ball users.  Their game plan is about short precise quick ball movement after all.  They do have genuine class though.)

Now, I dont believe that juniors wouldnt be taught to hit targets to advantage, and we have had too many that have gone from highly rated to poor kicks when transitioning to AFL level, which means that there is something we are not getting right.

Couple that with the game plan of kick it in long and quickly and lock it in, it might have very well have been why we have failed to teach this skill to so many through the journey.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #312 –
Does my head in how many times we kick the ball to land on the head of our forward instead of kicking it to advantage.
No forward can mark a ball when he just has to stand there and fight with the backs...usually 2 or 3 of them.

We need to kick so our forwards can run onto it to create a better chance. Just my opinion. :)
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #313 –
Thry and Blue_MM, I think you are both confusing finishing with hitting targets.

It's easy for fans to forgive and forget the foibles of the superstars, but by AFL standards Yarran, Murphy, Gibbs are the best on our list yet just average overall.

Unfortunately for us, Judd who is an absolute star in most other areas except perhaps marking is/was also very ordinary by foot hitting targets.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #314 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
Does my head in how many times we kick the ball to land on the head of our forward instead of kicking it to advantage.
No forward can mark a ball when he just has to stand there and fight with the backs...usually 2 or 3 of them.

We need to kick so our forwards can run onto it to create a better chance. Just my opinion. :)

Exactly BP, I agree 100%!

The best ball users in the game put the ball in areas that draw the forward to it, they don't kick to, behind, on top of, besides or short of the forward.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"