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Topic: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath (Read 105410 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #150 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
The real problem is not recruiting per se, it's the player development after they come to the club.

This thread is filled with criticism of Bell and Robbo, much of it unfortunately justified. Back when Bell and Robbo were recruited, the club clearly had a very soft midfield - recruiting a couple of tough nuts was the right thing to do. If you read this site and the old one over the years, there have been plenty of wraps for Robbo and to a lesser extent Bell over the journey. And plenty on here were very happy when we got them.

You can only choose from what is available. Gun AFL players are not a dime a dozen. You can't just waltz into the marketplace and order a couple of Sammy Mitchells, a couple of Joel Selwoods, a Roughie and fries to go. The club did the right thing at the time.

The fact that they (and others) haven't come on and improved is the really worrying thing for mine.

That's right. And that's why we got Kreuz; we had a real perceived ruck problem at the time. Now either we made poor choices in terms of talent or we have failed in the development, or maybe a bit of both?

cookie, Krooz is a very good example of this phenomenon, and the one that most breaks my heart. I really wanted him to become an elite player of the comp. A very good ruck-man who was great at ground level, and could double as a midfielder / big body around the packs. He started with all guns blazing - we were all hopeful. It seems as though he has got worse season by season. I know about the knee(s). But gee, it's heart breaking to watch. Lion heart, loves the club. Very distressing. 
 

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #151 –
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #152 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

Don't need your knees to mark the ball? His mobility looks OK actually.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #153 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

He looked unstoppable until the knee. In answer to your question, I'd guess the former rather than the latter.

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #154 –
Token reply in thread for token effort last night.

I thought after seeing us win the test (cricket) series in South Africa - ending the summer and thusly commencing winter sports - I thought I was ready for footy season again, but alas, watching the friday night rugby holds more interest to me than AFL or watching us play in general.

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #155 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

He looked unstoppable until the knee. In answer to your question, I'd guess the former rather than the latter.

I wouldn't say unstoppable but he was showing more potential pre-knee. The problem with Kreuz is he is stuck in no mans land for a ruckman which is all he is. At 200cm he is not going to be a dominate ruckman in the AFL like he was in the juniors, and doesn't have the athleticism or nous to be a forward, too lumbering.

I would say its definitely development issues, the amount of balls he ran under last night. He and Warnock both have no idea how to use the hips and body when going up and just leap for the ball. Like Waite who calls for the ball from the cheer squad but at least he takes it.

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #156 –
Why do we insist of constantly recruiting and playing guys  who cant kick!!!

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #157 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.

Nothing has changed.

This is the most poignant and relevant comment in this whole post-mortem.

It goes beyond last year - I would say it's been a "feature" since 2009 (before that we seldom got 15 points in front). I've asked before if anyone can tell me why. 

I really don't buy into the "not playing for the jumper", or ... "it's between the ears" type excuses which don't stand up to any empirical (i.e. provable) examination.

Purely and simply, we let teams off the hook time and time again.  I swear, the opposition just seems to know they can cruise against us - that we'll inevitably go to sleep, and, when we do, BAM!, a few intense gut busting efforts during pre-planned set plays and it's pretty much all over. 

Good teams do not allow this to happen.  We are not a good team.  I think I've just answered my own question and it depresses the hell out of me.

It was 21 years between 1947 and 1968.  Another record drought coming up except this time we can't blame carbon emissions.
 
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #158 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

He looked a good ruckmen until we tried to turn him into a forward, in much the same way Casboult looked a good ruck / forward after five games in the TAC as a forward and failed to progress as a forward. Kreuzer is still a good player, but I doubt he will ever be a good forward.

People know where I stand on this, we kept a bunch of spud forwards and in the process b0rked up what was potentially the leagues best ruck division. We took a strength and turned it into a weakness and failed to address a clear weakness. Poster keel-hauled Brett Ratten for trying to turn SpecialK into a forward, and now Mick Malthouse is doing exactly the same thing and posters seem to accept it.

Why does MM doing this get justified as the right move but when Ratten did it they labeled the same process so wrong?

In the end nothing has changed for the better it seems!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #159 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.

He looked a good ruckmen until we tried to turn him into a forward, in much the same way Casboult looked a good ruck / forward after five games in the TAC as a forward and failed to progress as a forward. Kreuzer is still a good player, but I doubt he will ever be a good forward.

People know where I stand on this, we kept a bunch of spud forwards and in the process b0rked up what was potentially the leagues best ruck division. We took a strength and turned it into a weakness and failed to address a clear weakness. Poster keel-hauled Brett Ratten for trying to turn SpecialK into a forward, and now Mick Malthouse is doing exactly the same thing and posters seem to accept it.

Why does MM doing this get justified as the right move but when Ratten did it they labeled the same process so wrong?

In the end nothing has changed for the better it seems!

Agree....got rid of Fev then went the cheap turn the ruckmen into a KP Forward and failed miserably as you would expect.
Then went the cheap fix with Rowe and Casboult as well as the tall U18 draft with Mitchell, McCarthy, Watson and as we know kids take time even if they do make it....you get a Jeremy Cameron every ten years not every draft...

Its list management and recruiting that have killed us........Malthouse needs a proven performer in these area's to give him the equipment to get the job done....

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #160 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.

Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #161 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Dirty Harry – on
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...

Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!

x 2....shocking call there jami...err Dirty Harry. Casboult cannot ruck to save himself.
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #162 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.

Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)

Yep...controlled play, won plenty of the ball but the hallmark of average teams is they dont convert on the scoreboard .
4 goals 4 behinds should have been 7 goals 1 behind.....

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #163 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Dirty Harry – on
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...

Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!

x 2....shocking call there jami...err Dirty Harry. Casboult cannot ruck to save himself.

Kroozer is not much better at the moment. The start of their attacks all started when krooze was put in the ruck to give Warnock a rest.
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: R1 Carlton vs Power After-match Aftermath

Reply #164 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
Kroozer is not much better at the moment. The start of their attacks all started when krooze was put in the ruck to give Warnock a rest.

SpecialK was still wearing a moon boot in January, I'll cut him some slack!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"