After making an ordinary team look like world beaters again in Round 11, we actually play a top 4 side: Brisbane. They may not have much more experience than we do, but they are following the coaches' instructions. We do not. They don't turn the ball over under little pressure. We do. They play with a plan. We do not.
This could be ugly.
After making an ordinary team look like world beaters again in Round 11, we actually play a top 4 side: Brisbane. They may not have much more experience than we do, but they are following the coaches' instructions. We do not. They don't turn the ball over under little pressure. We do. They play with a plan. We do not.
This could be ugly.
Saw the Brissie game this weekend Crash - you could well be right - our hands will be full alright! I won't be going along, tv for me.
With some of our recent performances I considered not going. However, I already have paid for my seat and it is the only chance I have to see any friends. I'll be going, but I am not looking forward to it at all.
Lions by 15 goals.
Lions by 15 goals.
Mitch Robinson BoG!
With the coaching turmoil this week, it is very interesting to see how the players respond.
With the coaching turmoil this week, it is very interesting to see how the players respond.
Cripps will be reported, then finish top of the Brownlow table at season end!
Lions by 15 goals.
Is that really what you want?
Honeymoon sugar hit win for Teague, Daisy back in...Blues by 21 points....
Honeymoon sugar hit win for Teague, Daisy back in...Blues by 21 points....
Do you really think young blokes can improve uncontested disposal efficiency and decision making in just a week?
Do you really think young blokes can improve uncontested disposal efficiency and decision making in just a week?
Yes, because they'll actually put in alot more effort to do it correctly and focus alot more like in the Dogs and the first half of the Hawks game.
Yes, because they'll actually put in alot more effort to do it correctly and focus alot more like in the Dogs and the first half of the Hawks game.
So Fagan has no motivation to put the club that rubbished his mate to the sword, this could get ugly!
Teague sacked next Monday?
Someone in the media over the last few weeks described our club as chooklotto, hurts today! ;D
Do you really think young blokes can improve uncontested disposal efficiency and decision making in just a week?
Nth are carp but looked like supermen vs the Tigers......Lions are a young team who are probably a bit further up the ladder than they should be IMO.
Nth are carp but looked like supermen vs the Tigers
Norp players are Hulks compared to our kids, as are the Lions!
I'm hoping but certainly not expecting for our kids to go out there and use their emotion and motivation to physically dominate them!
Normally you'd expect a bounce when a caretaker is appointed.
We may get that....but a more likely result is more of the same.
They're not going to improve skills and decision making in a week.
Attitude and effort , maybe.
Will it be enough?
Is that really what you want?
Nothing to do with what I want, it's what I think will happen. Super coach Fagan, Hodge............
Normally you'd expect a bounce when a caretaker is appointed.
We may get that....but a more likely result is more of the same.
They're not going to improve skills and decision making in a week.
Attitude and effort , maybe.
Will it be enough?
When we have put the real effort in, like 6 qtrs against the Dogs and Hawks, the skills were suddenly alot better. With effort and proper focus suddenly those things improve. There's more space ahead of you with decent, quick ball movement so hitting targets is much easier. We showed we can do it when we switch on properly.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-03/reborn-lion-wary-of-underthepump-carlton
Nothing to do with what I want, it's what I think will happen. Super coach Fagan, Hodge............
Well, what do you want? And, no, you can't have BB back. What would you want to see from here on?
Well, what do you want? And, no, you can't have BB back. What would you want to see from here on?
Sigh. Nice to know that the last 5000 times I've addressed this has been duly noted.
I want us to be a professional football club. Nothing more, nothing less. I want us to be the Pies, Cats, Tigers, Hawks. Not knee jerk, not 80's style mid season sackings, not BS press conferences, not kowtow to power brokers. I want stability. I want everyone at the club backing each other in, on and off the field. I want a much more holistic understanding of process, history and context. I could go on, but seriously, why bother ?
Sigh. Nice to know that the last 5000 times I've addressed this has been duly noted.
I want us to be a professional football club. Nothing more, nothing less. I want us to be the Pies, Cats, Tigers, Hawks. Not knee jerk, not 80's style mid season sackings, not BS press conferences, not kowtow to power brokers. I want stability. I want everyone at the club backing each other in, on and off the field. I want a much more holistic understanding of process, history and context. I could go on, but seriously, why bother ?
+1.
He was under pressure for all of 4 weeks. Ridiculous stuff.
We backed him in just two weeks ago and last week things changed.
We are reacting to north IMHO.
We were a rabble last weekend.
Supporters survive on hope - hope that each year new draftees will help the team improve its position from the previous year with a premiership the ultimate goal in the years ahead.
Ask any supporter who attended the Essendon game what they thought about our progress and where we were headed
and the words hope for our future would be furthest from their minds.
One move I would make this week. Cripps to Full Forward all day. Prince Charles to the Centre all day to cop some serious heat and see what it feels like to be Crippa. That should wake the little prat up.
+1.
He was under pressure for all of 4 weeks. Ridiculous stuff.
We backed him in just two weeks ago and last week things changed.
We are reacting to north IMHO.
Sigh. Nice to know that the last 5000 times I've addressed this has been duly noted.
I want us to be a professional football club. Nothing more, nothing less. I want us to be the Pies, Cats, Tigers, Hawks. Not knee jerk, not 80's style mid season sackings, not BS press conferences, not kowtow to power brokers. I want stability. I want everyone at the club backing each other in, on and off the field. I want a much more holistic understanding of process, history and context. I could go on, but seriously, why bother ?
Yep.
We all knew that change was needed, but instead we made change for changes sake.
Pressure was applied and instead of considered thought we jerked our knee, played like a Dr with a little hammer.
Rinse, repeat...
Was unlucky enough to see Brisbane dismantle us at the Gabba last year and they'll do the same this week. They're playing great football, great team football with everyone chipping in....about as far removed from us as you could get.
And apart from Dale Thomas, not one bloke from the VFL would be deserving of a game this week. Hopefully Simpson and McGovern are fit so that Lang, Fasolo and Kennedy can be banished to the VFL with their papers stamped.
In all this excitement I kinda, lost count...
So, punk, who gets to flog us this week? And where?
So Fagan has no motivation to put the club that rubbished his mate to the sword, this could get ugly!
Teague sacked next Monday?
Someone in the media over the last few weeks described our club as chooklotto, hurts today! ;D
Fagan probably could give a toss. He's focussed on his own club. Just you talking crap again.
Don't care about them. Thinking we'll at least lift.
So Fagan has no motivation to put the club that rubbished his mate to the sword, this could get ugly!
Teague sacked next Monday?
Someone in the media over the last few weeks described our club as chooklotto, hurts today! ;D
Very much doubt that Fagan is this petty.
There is no altruism in AFL, putting opponents to the sword in a vulnerable moment has very tangible long term benefits!
If you think that is incorrect, go have a discussion with Alistair The Angry Ant Clarkson and Brendan Fevola!
One move I would make this week. Cripps to Full Forward all day. Prince Charles to the Centre all day to cop some serious heat and see what it feels like to be Crippa. That should wake the little prat up.
I was thinking about this before last weeks effort.
I've been pushing for Charlie to play on a wing, but i've had a re-think.
Charlie to CHB!In a move that rejuvinated Waites career, moving him to CHB can give him a new lease of life.
Let him run in straight lines.
He will not be outrun and outmarked.
He will not be beaten on the ground.
It allows us to move Marchbank onto the 3rd tall, as he should, with Weitering taking #1 spot.
It also frees up our forwardline to have Harry (and Gov if he is fit) in more space there, with some more crumbers at their feet.....and a resting Cripps 1-out at FF, without being overly tall.
Personally, i'd drop Casboult for team balance to allow this to happen.
As for Teague as coach...
Knowing how he played, i think he'll reward effort. You don't have to be skillful or a high possession getter, you just have to do the team things.
As a result...
In: Polson.
I was thinking about this before last weeks effort.
I've been pushing for Charlie to play on a wing, but i've had a re-think.
Charlie to CHB!
In a move that rejuvinated Waites career, moving him to CHB can give him a new lease of life.
Let him run in straight lines.
He will not be outrun and outmarked.
He will not be beaten on the ground.
It allows us to move Marchbank onto the 3rd tall, as he should, with Weitering taking #1 spot.
It also frees up our forwardline to have Harry (and Gov if he is fit) in more space there, with some more crumbers at their feet.....and a resting Cripps 1-out at FF, without being overly tall.
Personally, i'd drop Casboult for team balance to allow this to happen.
As for Teague as coach...
Knowing how he played, i think he'll reward effort. You don't have to be skillful or a high possession getter, you just have to do the team things.
As a result...
In: Polson.
Dropping Casboult for team balance by bringing in McGovern who has done nothing to support his $700k contract is really setting the wrong tone and doubt we are that stupid to do it. I would drop marchbank for balance if it’s needed, well before Casboult. He has been a steady rock in defence and one of the rare bright lights.
As for Polson, I watched the 2nds and he did what he always does, SFA. Hardly touches it runs around like a headless chook guarding space and shanks it every one of his 5-7 touches.
If we are serious the new coach will delist him at years end. Won’t make it. Need to move on and stop justifying running around in circles is enough to be promoted. I know we are the bottom team but he is that far below afl level it’s not funny.
Casboult's done OK, the player to drop should be Charlie for McGovern!
I appreciate McGovern hasn't shown great form, but Charlie is fit and covering the ground yet only gets involved to play a moment here or there. Charlie is picking and choosing contests, it's a bad look!
I appreciate it might be due to overlap and confusion between the three young talls, but SpecialK can clearly enter F50 and make himself a more effective target than the other three!
I don't expect Teague and the MC to make any dramatic moves re team selection. We are in a stage where stability is needed and emotions must be calmed. I expect a conservative approach with a much simplified plan that takes players back closer to the basics. Time to steady the ship! Teague seems like the calming influence we need right atm.
I don't expect Teague and the MC to make any dramatic moves re team selection. We are in a stage where stability is needed and emotions must be calmed. I expect a conservative approach with a much simplified plan that takes players back closer to the basics. Time to steady the ship! Teague seems like the calming influence we need right atm.
I expect Teague will unleash Liam Jones if he is fit!
He certainly won't be a worse kick for goal than any of our current lot, and good luck whoever has to run with him if he is given license to Run and 2nd Ruck!
Further, do not be surprised to see Weiters pressing deeper forward!
I expect Teague will unleash Liam Jones if he is fit!
He certainly won't be a worse kick for goal than any of our current lot, and good luck whoever has to run with him if he is given license to Run and 2nd Ruck!
Further, do not be surprised to see Weiters pressing deeper forward!
Hardly dramatic though LP. Just one of our better players returning from injury?
Hardly dramatic though LP. Just one of our better players returning from injury?
Fair enough, yet we've not seen it since the start of the Jones renaissance!
Anyone who watched his VFL games prior to his return/break-out AFL season has to ask why?
Fair enough, yet we've not seen it since the start of the Jones renaissance!
Anyone who watched his VFL games prior to his return/break-out AFL season has to ask why?
From what we are hearing our players roles were very strictly defined and they performed them under close instructions. Were they even micro managed. Maybe this may become clear eventually?
Dropping Casboult for team balance by bringing in McGovern who has done nothing to support his $700k contract is really setting the wrong tone and doubt we are that stupid to do it. I would drop marchbank for balance if it’s needed, well before Casboult. He has been a steady rock in defence and one of the rare bright lights.
As for Polson, I watched the 2nds and he did what he always does, SFA. Hardly touches it runs around like a headless chook guarding space and shanks it every one of his 5-7 touches.
If we are serious the new coach will delist him at years end. Won’t make it. Need to move on and stop justifying running around in circles is enough to be promoted. I know we are the bottom team but he is that far below afl level it’s not funny.
McGovern will be ok. He is still a pup in terms of AFL football, and is a very classy player.
He just needs to start getting involved more.
Once he does, look out.
McGovern will be ok. He is still a pup in terms of AFL football, and is a very classy player.
He just needs to start getting involved more.
Once he does, look out.
More and better quality supply will help all of them....Teague seems the only reason why the Guv came to us....perhaps Teague in charge will see the best of Mitch!
Just at the moment McGovern is an unknown.
When he gets involved he can have an impact pretty quickly and effectively
But he seems to pick and choose a bit too often.
It's been stated often that he chose Carlton because of Teague
Does anyone have a source for that?
The current Adelaide coach doesn't seem too keen on that aspect at the moment and if McGovern was still there he may not be playing.
Just at the moment McGovern is an unknown.
When he gets involved he can have an impact pretty quickly and effectively
But he seems to pick and choose a bit too often.
It's been stated often that he chose Carlton because of Teague
Does anyone have a source for that?
The current Adelaide coach doesn't seem too keen on that aspect at the moment and if McGovern was still there he may not be playing.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trades-2018-mitch-mcgovern-wants-to-join-carlton-20180927-p506ar.html
McGovern needs to lift his work rate but he's one of the few players that actually looks clean with the footy when he gets it IMO. And Casboult is a much better defender than Marchbank so if Jones is okay to go, then Marchbank should go out.
If McGovern, Simpson and Jones are all fit then bring them in along with Thomas and drop Lang, Kennedy, Plowman and Marchbank. If need be, Stocker can push into the middle but is probably a chance to get a job on Cameron or Rayner. Thomas can play on a wing and through the middle....he's not quick but he's been one of the better players this year and uses it pretty well.
McGovern needs to lift his work rate but he's one of the few players that actually looks clean with the footy when he gets it IMO. And Casboult is a much better defender than Marchbank so if Jones is okay to go, then Marchbank should go out.
If McGovern, Simpson and Jones are all fit then bring them in along with Thomas and drop Lang, Kennedy, Plowman and Marchbank. If need be, Stocker can push into the middle but is probably a chance to get a job on Cameron or Rayner. Thomas can play on a wing and through the middle....he's not quick but he's been one of the better players this year and uses it pretty well.
Is he confirmed as returning from demotion ?
Not sure PP but if they think more than one week for that is worthy then they've got rocks in their heads. He's served his penance and backed it up with a BOG effort in the VFL....what more do they want? I think Bolton was non-committal on it when asked but he's not in the driver's seat this week.
Not sure PP but if they think more than one week for that is worthy then they've got rocks in their heads. He's served his penance and backed it up with a BOG effort in the VFL....what more do they want? I think Bolton was non-committal on it when asked but he's not in the driver's seat this week.
The original 1 week was absurd to begin with. The club can't make a sensible decision to save itself these days.
Teague will surely want Daisy back.
Dropping Casboult for team balance by bringing in McGovern who has done nothing to support his $700k contract is really setting the wrong tone and doubt we are that stupid to do it. I would drop marchbank for balance if it’s needed, well before Casboult. He has been a steady rock in defence and one of the rare bright lights.
As for Polson, I watched the 2nds and he did what he always does, SFA. Hardly touches it runs around like a headless chook guarding space and shanks it every one of his 5-7 touches.
If we are serious the new coach will delist him at years end. Won’t make it. Need to move on and stop justifying running around in circles is enough to be promoted. I know we are the bottom team but he is that far below afl level it’s not funny.
McGovern, and Charlie, are only 50-odd game players. Marchbank isn't even at that stage. Casboult has more experience than any 2 of that 3 combined.....but his output doesn't reflect that. There is also the problem of finding a matchup for him. I haven't really watched the Lions this year so not sure if one exists, but most teams would see Casboult lining up at CHB and design a playbook around their CHF to exploit him.
How many ways can someone exploit Charlie if he were to play CHB?
As for Polson...
Think about Teague. How many touches did he get each week? How was his disposal? How was his effort? Polson is a mini teague, he just plays a different position.
Possible ins: McGov, Simmo, Murphy, Thomas
Possible outs: Fasolo, Lang, Plowman,
Fasolo cannot possibly stay in. Lang’s zip / 3 in front of goal is a coach killer. We need to fit Simmo into the backline. Kennedy is the one I’d give another we to. Not sure if McGov comes straight in....
Possible ins: McGov, Simmo, Murphy, Thomas
Possible outs: Fasolo, Lang, Plowman,
Fasolo cannot possibly stay in. Lang’s zip / 3 in front of goal is a coach killer. We need to fit Simmo into the backline. Kennedy is the one I’d give another we to. Not sure if McGov comes straight in....
If Bolton was the cause of our underperformance, why would you drop players for under performing?
Wouldnt you keep them in to see if this is now rectified rather than swinging mass changes around?
If you ask me, we are now searching through our list to see who can play well for us moving forward, and we need to make a number of tough calls at the end of this season.
Garlett, Fasolo, Lang, Lobbe, Phillips and anyone whom we are considering parting ways with, should all be playing senior footy so we can work out who is still up to it, and who isnt.
At the moment, no one looks up to it, and we would be better served getting the kids to play together in the VFL, until they are ready to play together at AFL level.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dale-thomas-set-for-senior-carlton-recall-20190606-p51v6p.html
1 win, 11 games to go, 12 gets you into the finals. C'mon Teaguey you can do it son....lol!
Looks like a surprise selection coming.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-daily-live-rolling-footy-news-from-around-australia-for-june-06-2019/live-coverage/1329984bd0b0a135d7524d131d7db266
I've totally lost interest now. Can't see how Teague will make a difference, I suspect we will still be very sad after the weekend.
I've totally lost interest now. Can't see how Teague will make a difference, I suspect we will still be very sad after the weekend.
Same here! I won’t be attending the game and I suspect that there won’t be much of a crowd.
Same here! I won’t be attending the game and I suspect that there won’t be much of a crowd.
I'm torn, part of me says onward and upward, the other part says we are back to square one.
I was the same last week. Thought I'd give them one more chance and really believed we could turn it around.....5 minutes into the second quarter I'd packed it in and gone for another surf!
I've totally lost interest now. Can't see how Teague will make a difference, I suspect we will still be very sad after the weekend.
It will be alot more free run and attack apparently, which Teague is more renowned for. Bit more of a focus on scoring. Hopefully we'll get something like the Dogs and the first half of the Hawthorn games. He is the only coach to take any form of a Carlton side to a Grand Final, doing it 2 years straight, where he did focus alot on attack. Hopefully continues that way.
Couldn't keep going with how we were. Players are the same so hopefully it's forward. Certainly not square one.
Same here! I won’t be attending the game and I suspect that there won’t be much of a crowd.
I've totally lost interest now. Can't see how Teague will make a difference, I suspect we will still be very sad after the weekend.
It's certainly not time for flying off into FrouFrou land and thinking we'll win the game, the flag or anything else. But I say get behind Teague and see what he has to offer first. He'll never be as good as Bolton, so we have to be realistic on that front..........
I'll be watching with interest, on tv.
The Docherty interview re Teague on the CFC makes for very interesting listening. Less meetings, less strategies, simple messages. Maybe we’ve been ‘overtaught!’
It's certainly not time for flying off into FrouFrou land and thinking we'll win the game, the flag or anything else. But I say get behind Teague and see what he has to offer first. He'll never be as good as Bolton, so we have to be realistic on that front..........
I’d prefer to send a message that I’m not happy with the club reverting to type and expecting a simple solution to solve a complex problem ... and I don’t think that I can summon up the energy to watch what could be a train wreck.
It's certainly not time for flying off into FrouFrou land and thinking we'll win the game, the flag or anything else. But I say get behind Teague and see what he has to offer first. He'll never be as good as Bolton, so we have to be realistic on that front..........
You'd be as good as Bolton. Fair chance quite a few of us could win 4 from 43 turning up with a slab and a bag of chips in they coach's box.
I’d prefer to send a message that I’m not happy with the club reverting to type and expecting a simple solution to solve a complex problem ... and I don’t think that I can summon up the energy to watch what could be a train wreck.
We won 4 from 43, what the hell do you expect any club to do. Can't continue with that rubbish. You enjoy that $hit you saw? you might've been happy watching that, most of us weren't. Any other club would've sacked him long before now.
In McGovern, Simpson, Thomas, LOB
Out Kennedy, Stocker, Fasolo, Lang
I’d prefer to send a message that I’m not happy with the club reverting to type and expecting a simple solution to solve a complex problem ... and I don’t think that I can summon up the energy to watch what could be a train wreck.
They won't notice your absence from the game David, but a strongly worded email and threat to not renew yours or your family's memberships may make a tiny dent.
In McGovern, Simpson, Thomas, LOB
Out Kennedy, Stocker, Fasolo, Lang
Not sure why Stocker was dropped at least he has some gonads and if the club want Kennedy to show something they need to give him some continuity by playing him.
LOB?....based on his NB's form?
SOS needs to do his job and find some decent mature players as both Fasalo and Lang are finished....
It's certainly not time for flying off into FrouFrou land and thinking we'll win the game, the flag or anything else. But I say get behind Teague and see what he has to offer first. He'll never be as good as Bolton, so we have to be realistic on that front..........
...and this you know, how? As Pauline would blurt, "Please explain."
Not sure why Stocker was dropped at least he has some gonads and if the club want Kennedy to show something they need to give him some continuity by playing him.
LOB?....based on his NB's form?
SOS needs to do his job and find some decent mature players as both Fasalo and Lang are finished....
Stocker shown as injured.
Not sure why Stocker was dropped at least he has some gonads and if the club want Kennedy to show something they need to give him some continuity by playing him.
LOB?....based on his NB's form?
SOS needs to do his job and find some decent mature players as both Fasalo and Lang are finished....
Stocker is injured, not dropped. Lang also injured.
Fasolo and Kennedy dropped.
The Docherty interview re Teague on the CFC makes for very interesting listening. Less meetings, less strategies, simple messages. Maybe we’ve been ‘overtaught!’
Read somewhere else we may have been overcoached but we'll see.
Not sure why Stocker was dropped at least he has some gonads and if the club want Kennedy to show something they need to give him some continuity by playing him.
LOB?....based on his NB's form?
SOS needs to do his job and find some decent mature players as both Fasalo and Lang are finished....
Equally surprised with LOB getting a call up.
Yep, SOS is going to have to work overtime to get some legitimate performers in the 23-27 age bracket.
No more non-hackers please SOS.
No more broken ones please SOS.
No more 'slower than a wet week' ones please SOS.
No more runts please SOS.
Lang is about as durable as Phillips.....should be shown the door at the end of the season.
Agree on O'Brien....not sure what he brings to the table but I'm guessing there wasn't much else left in the VFL?
Read somewhere else we may have been overcoachef but we'll see.
That was one of the knocks on BB, too much complex instruction and too many meetings (did he just like the sound of his own voice ;) :P - don't tell Pauly I said that ssshhhh).
Stocker shown as injured.
Fair enough, makes sense then as he at least gives effort.....
Lang injured too?....maybe it was the heavy rain....
...and this you know, how? As Pauline would blurt, "Please explain."
Must admit, I laughed too.
Fair enough, makes sense then as he at least gives effort.....
Lang injured too?....maybe it was the heavy rain....
Probably a problem with his backbone?
Here we go again. Not at all sure I like the team, but ...
CARLTON
B: Nic Newman, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman
HB: Caleb Marchbank, Levi Casboult, Dale Thomas
C: Will Setterfield, Patrick Cripps, David Cuningham
HF: Michael Gibbons, Charlie Curnow, Lochie O'Brien
F: Mitch McGovern, Harry McKay, Ed Curnow
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Sam Walsh, Zac Fisher
Int: Kade Simpson, Sam Petrevski-Seton, Paddy Dow, Jack Silvagni
EMG: Angus Schumacher, Matthew Lobbe, Matthew Kennedy, Cameron Polson
IN: Dale Thomas, Lochie O'Brien, Mitch McGovern, Kade Simpson
OUT: Alex Fasolo (Omitted), Liam Stocker (Injured), Matthew Kennedy (Omitted), Darcy Lang (Injured)
Lang lucky to be injured this time; saves him from being dropped.
I would not have brought in O'Brien; his form hasn't deserved it.
BRISBANE LIONS
B: Luke Hodge, Harris Andrews, Daniel Rich
HB: Alex Witherden, Darcy Gardiner, Noah Answerth
C: Hugh McCluggage, Lachie Neale, Mitch Robinson
HF: Cam Rayner, Eric Hipwood, Lincoln McCarthy
F: Charles Cameron, Daniel McStay, Lewis Taylor
R: Stefan Martin, Dayne Zorko, Jarryd Lyons
Int: Nick Robertson, Jacob Allison, Rhys Mathieson, Archie Smith
EMG: Ben Keays, Allen Christensen, Josh Walker, Oscar McInerney
IN: Jacob Allison
OUT: Ben Keays (Omitted)
Martin, Robinson and Zorko usually have great games against us. :(
Those three behinds he kicked from 8 possessions EB must've really taken it out of him
The Docherty interview re Teague on the CFC makes for very interesting listening. Less meetings, less strategies, simple messages. Maybe we’ve been ‘overtaught!’
It's certainly one possibility. I'd be very curious to know where Bolton's coaching sits compared to other coaches on the "over coaching" spectrum. This could be one of those urban myths that arise to explain a poor W/L. I suspect he learned a fair bit from the Hawks and if there was over coaching, then maybe it's because of the number of kids on the list. Bolton did say he was wary of over coaching someone like Walsh, so I suspect this is getting legs without too much reason.
In my view, the emphasis on strategy and meetings is to equip the kids to think for themselves. Which is much better than just giving them rote instructions. It's the difference between a university education, which is knowledge based, and a TAFE education, which is skills based.
It's basically a "better in the long term" approach, which is what I thought the club wanted.
Watched the tape again and Setterfield was much better than I originally thought. At least kicks the ball into positions from which we can score. I wonder if his knee is really 100 percent. I reckon he is worth persisting with but of the outs, Stocker was due a break but the others won't be missed
@ Paul
Yes mate we all have to be very careful when making assumptions and drawing conclusions. ;)
@ Paul
Yes mate we all have to be very careful when making assumptions and drawing conclusions. ;)
Luckily, there's no fear of me doing that.
Will be going this week to give Teague support in very trying circumstances.
I'm not expecting miracles but maybe a different approach which offers hope for the future.
If Bolton were still coach after that disgraceful, humiliating display last weekend, I would not be going again this year.
Watched the tape again and Setterfield was much better than I originally thought. At least kicks the ball into positions from which we can score. I wonder if his knee is really 100 percent. I reckon he is worth persisting with but of the outs, Stocker was due a break but the others won't be missed
Problem is, apart from Crippa and Kruze, he is the only one who seems to put his nose right over it and show some kent towards the opposition. As Maclure said, I wouldnt play with the rest.
Luckily, there's no fear of me doing that.
Really? :D
Those three behinds he kicked from 8 possessions EB must've really taken it out of him
Yep Surfie...he really knocked himself out trying to get a kick and looked real
upset at missing those goals..not.
Think he knows its lights out at seasons end and he is just taking it easy.
Luckily, there's no fear of me doing that.
:)) :)) :)) well done, if I read that comment correctly you had a good-natured dig at yourself. :))
Oh, and the 'over-coaching' knock on BB went back a couple of years. When I see 'over-coaching' I think 'control freak'. It's a fine line between the didactic and simply letting young blokes find out through experience, through letting them 'strut their stuff', make the mistakes on the paddock and correct them on the paddock.
I'm going this week. I have no expectations.
O'Brien playing dismissed any idea we would get up this week as he is just not ready yet for afl footy.
I think we'll continue where we left with Bolton. A couple of good quarters, one so so quarter and one where we seem just not present.
Watched the tape again and Setterfield was much better than I originally thought. At least kicks the ball into positions from which we can score. I wonder if his knee is really 100 percent. I reckon he is worth persisting with but of the outs, Stocker was due a break but the others won't be missed
Setterfield is the best out of the GWS debacle and will give you a contest...needs to be in the middle with Cripps, Stocker will be good value but needs some decent mature player support.
Setterfield is the best out of the GWS debacle and will give you a contest...needs to be in the middle with Cripps, Stocker will be good value but needs some decent mature player support.
Agree.
Agree.
Marchbank, although incredibly injury prone, would be my pick of the GWS guys, with Setterfield and Pickett being second and third most promising.
Looking at the teams, it's very unlikely there will be any sort of "bounce"
I'm happy to be proven wrong!
Facts are facts, we started a rebuild overloaded with lots of talented kids from rock bottom, most clubs start from being on the slide with a mix or retained seniors and kids yet still slide further, yet fans expect us to have some sort of meteoric rise from a rebuild built at the bottom.
It's unrealtistic!
Did they let Bolton select the team one last time ;)
Did they let Bolton select the team one last time ;)
That explains it................... cause and effect! ::)
The players have no where to hide tomorrow. They have new a coach, the football world is watching. I am expecting much of the same.
Is the team still selected by match committee or by the senior coach because someone has to take responsibility for for selections like recalling O’Brien bloody hell that Schumacher is a goer I now he is still building the body but consistently in the better players in the two’s same as Goddard who was rookied as a back up, well the full back is out let’s play the back up. Obviously wasn’t Bolton cause the same stupid selections each week happening this week!
Maybe it’s a conspiracy by the match committee to give whoever the coach is this week no hope by playing blokes out of position.
Like Ed etc casboult trying hard but that experiment should be at nb not in the ones.
Is the team still selected by match committee or by the senior coach because someone has to take responsibility for for selections like recalling O’Brien bloody hell that Schumacher is a goer I now he is still building the body but consistently in the better players in the two’s same as Goddard who was rookied as a back up, well the full back is out let’s play the back up. Obviously wasn’t Bolton cause the same stupid selections each week happening this week!
Maybe it’s a conspiracy by the match committee to give whoever the coach is this week no hope by playing blokes out of position.
Like Ed etc casboult trying hard but that experiment should be at nb not in the ones.
I understand it is selected by the MC of which the head coach is a member.
Fascinating game.
And difficult to pick the result.
Will we get the 'new coach' bounce is the big question.
You would think that Teague will most likely free them up and adopt a more free flowing direct style.
That could result in some attractive football.
But it's also fraught with danger as it could result in us being scored against heavily.
How will Brisbane react....mentally they should be prepared that this will not be an easy game.
A lot depends on how they really accept that.
You can be prepared but deep down there may be a feeling "it's still just Carlton." and they may still go into the game thinking they just have to turn up.
On the other hand Brisbane can apply pressure as well as any team.
Their efforts in their game against Adelaide earlier on were as good as any I've seen this year.
If they bring that we'll struggle to kick a winning score.
Let's call it a draw.
Not too difficult for me to pick it Lods.....their midfield goes way deeper than ours. Martin is a more than capable ruckman who's very mobile and will test Kreuzer. They've got arguably the best FB in the competition at the moment in Andrews which means McKay will have to be at his absolute best...and hopefully get some decent delivery for a change. Hipwood took us to the cleaners last year and that was with Jones playing. Their small forwards with Cameron, Rayner, McCarthy and Taylor will be too much for us to cover.
I'd love to think there'll be a lift from the players and all I'm hoping for is something remotely competitive...not like the crap we've served up in the last few weeks.
I'd give us some chance at Marvel, if it was in Qld then we would be slaughtered, we might get some dead cat bounce with the new coach and the Lions might be drinking their own bathwater given they are the media's love team at the minute.
Martin probably isnt Kreuzers ideal opponent but if our man can break even we can call that a win, hopefully Teague has scouted Brusbane better than we have previously and their
playmakers are manned up and not allowed to run free.
I heard one of the North players talking about their post-Pudding Face win and he dismissed the idea of a change in game plan. He said that after focusing on a game plan since the pre-season, it would be impossible to change it mid-season. The only difference was that the players felt they had more freedom to execute the game plan without fear of the consequences of failure.
I suspect that the same will be true for us; same game plan (including a shambolic forward line) but more freedom in how the players go about it.
I'm not expecting a dead cat bounce and Brisbane are too well-drilled and have better leadership, on and off the field, to let us under their guard. Perhaps a couple of Robbo brain fades will keep us in the game :)
DJC....I reckon our poor skills and decision making will trump any Robbo brain fades...by a long way.
DJC....I reckon our poor skills and decision making will trump any Robbo brain fades...by a long way.
You're right ... but we can live in hope :)
True....been living in hope for a long time so one more week won't hurt! ;D
I heard one of the North players talking about their post-Pudding Face win and he dismissed the idea of a change in game plan. He said that after focusing on a game plan since the pre-season, it would be impossible to change it mid-season. The only difference was that the players felt they had more freedom to execute the game plan without fear of the consequences of failure.
I suspect that the same will be true for us; same game plan (including a shambolic forward line) but more freedom in how the players go about it.
I'm not expecting a dead cat bounce and Brisbane are too well-drilled and have better leadership, on and off the field, to let us under their guard. Perhaps a couple of Robbo brain fades will keep us in the game :)
DT said there will be minor changes, more offensive... especially forwards playing deeper (which tells me BB liked them playing further up the ground.).
I Have no expectations about this game at all.
We could do a North type performance....or we could get a hiding.
They've done it again the wily old so-and-sos
They've bought some more time.
They've taken the pressure off themselves....temporary though it might be.
The coach sacking was a pressure release.
No-one is expecting miracles in the short term, and then they'll gain a bit of respite while the new coach settles in
The only ones feeling pressure will be Teague (if he wants the senior job) and players on the fringe who'll be playing for their future.
So tomorrow gives us the opportunity to just watch the team go around without the worries of a coach sacking and other external concerns.
There's no worry about the result, the season is over in a competitive sense.
Added to that will/should be a new approach to the game and maybe the opportunity to see some players in different roles.
Looking forward to seeing how we go.
I Have no expectations about this game at all.
We could do a North type performance....or we could get a hiding.
They've done it again the wily old so-and-sos
They've bought some more time.
They've taken the pressure off themselves....temporary though it might be.
The coach sacking was a pressure release.
No-one is expecting miracles in the short term, and then they'll gain a bit of respite while the new coach settles in
The only ones feeling pressure will be Teague (if he wants the senior job) and players on the fringe who'll be playing for their future.
So tomorrow gives us the opportunity to just watch the team go around without the worries of a coach sacking and other external concerns.
There's no worry about the result, the season is over in a competitive sense.
Added to that will/should be a new approach to the game and maybe the opportunity to see some players in different roles.
Looking forward to seeing how we go.
Can't agree.
This buys no time.
In fact it does the opposite. Malthouse got two years and the knives came out.
That will happen again now.
The Premier League clubs (and most European teams for that matter) change Managers (same as our senior coaches) at the drop of a hat if success isn't forthcoming?
Perhaps our Board is actually ahead of the pack after all?
And don't dredge up the Bombers at Cats, Dimma at Tigers etc etc.
The Premier League clubs (and most European teams for that matter) change Managers (same as our senior coaches) at the drop of a hat if success isn't forthcoming?
Perhaps our Board is actually ahead of the pack after all?
And don't dredge up the Bombers at Cats, Dimma at Tigers etc etc.
That's a glass half full approach, and very generalised. The clubs that behave this way usually are at the top of the game, and spend the sort of money on a handful of players that the AFL would for the entire season.
Jurgen klopp just won his first piece of silverware with liverpool after having been appointed in 2015.
The difference?
Liverpool paid alot of money to buy some key players and didn't sell anything beyond one key player (phillipe coutinho) and some dead weights that weren't playing much.
Here's a key point of difference. They didn't chop and change everything every year. They identified a few holes and worked on building the team buying a few players for depth.
Can't agree.
This buys no time.
In fact it does the opposite. Malthouse got two years and the knives came out.
That will happen again now.
Who are the knives out for?
The interim coach means a bit of pressure off the board for a while
They're the So-and-sos I was talking about.
But the board...they're going nowhere
While the board stays in place SOS's position is secure as long as he wants it.
Judd's too.
The only endangered species at Carlton are coaches, and players who don't impact in their first couple of years (you don't get long as a player either)
Who are the knives out for?
The interim coach means a bit of pressure off the board for a while
They're the So-and-sos I was talking about.
But the board...they're going nowhere
While the board stays in place SOS's position is secure as long as he wants it.
Judd's too.
The only endangered species at Carlton are coaches, and players who don't impact in their first couple of years (you don't get long as a player either)
Lods.
The moves we have made are the type that fracture footy clubs.
Whispers everywhere. There will be "factions" that emerge from the rubble of this. Some pro Bolton, some anti Bolton, some anti new bloke and anti Bolton, and most will simply scoff at what we said is a united footy club.
The scorched earth approach to the list, was party born about because of these factors.
If there is a serious board challenge coming from somewhere, the time is now for these people to show their hand, but in doing so, they will hurt any attempt at recovery we have. The media stories we see about this will continue for a little while. People are still a bit shocked by what has happened and are processing it all.
Bolton when he started his thanks for the club, has inadvertently already thrown a barb at the footy club. He named personally all the people that appointed him, and who had given his opportunity to coach us.
There have been plenty of signs that we were losing faith. Remember that show "The Journey?" that stopped in 2017. At the time I chalked it down to perhaps Trigg getting dumped. Perhaps there are much bigger machinations at play than we can appreciate.
OR you can label us all conspiracy nuts. After all, the behaviour we are witnessing occur at our footy club has never happened before has it???? *sarcasm*
Lods.
The moves we have made are the type that fracture footy clubs.
Whispers everywhere. There will be "factions" that emerge from the rubble of this. Some pro Bolton, some anti Bolton, some anti new bloke and anti Bolton, and most will simply scoff at what we said is a united footy club.
The scorched earth approach to the list, was party born about because of these factors.
If there is a serious board challenge coming from somewhere, the time is now for these people to show their hand, but in doing so, they will hurt any attempt at recovery we have. The media stories we see about this will continue for a little while. People are still a bit shocked by what has happened and are processing it all.
Bolton when he started his thanks for the club, has inadvertently already thrown a barb at the footy club. He named personally all the people that appointed him, and who had given his opportunity to coach us.
There have been plenty of signs that we were losing faith. Remember that show "The Journey?" that stopped in 2017. At the time I chalked it down to perhaps Trigg getting dumped. Perhaps there are much bigger machinations at play than we can appreciate.
OR you can label us all conspiracy nuts. After all, the behaviour we are witnessing occur at our footy club has never happened before has it???? *sarcasm*
There won't be a challenge Thry
There is no-one out there to mount a credible challenge.
And the obstacles to do that are well in place
I doubt anyone at the level we're talking about is going to be overly concerned about the demise of Brendon Bolton.
Win tomorrow and many supporters will move on quickly.
All the current board need to do is wait patiently until the end of the season and appoint a coach to continue the 'process'
It will be someone the public respect or have confidence in getting results and the club will get kudos for it.
Sacking Bolton has just meant that process can go ahead without a lot of noise about results
There won't be a challenge Thry
There is no-one out there to mount a credible challenge.
And the obstacles to do that are well in place
I doubt anyone at the level we're talking about is going to be overly concerned about the demise of Brendon Bolton.
Win tomorrow and many supporters will move on quickly.
All the current board need to do is wait patiently until the end of the season and appoint a coach to continue the 'process'
It will be someone the public respect or have confidence in getting results and the club will get kudos for it.
Sacking Bolton has just meant that process can go ahead without a lot of noise about results
Although I am not concerned about the demise of Brendan, what worries me is the way that the public perceive this. Carlton ruining yet another coaches reputation with the usual rigmarole. The parallels are there. This step was never going to be about Brendan specifically. All anyone is looking at is methodology. Even Caro, who is usually happy enough to throw stones at Carlton stated on FC on monday that we probably should have cut Brendan Loose last season.
The methodology surrounding this is a little too similar to what many perceive is our footy clubs modus operandi, and as a result, its issues surrounding stability, and giving people the appropriate tools to do their job.
Particularly when you look at the playing list he has ended up with. This year looked from the get go to be a challenging one.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-06-07/teague-backs-blues-in
Impressive and not a cliche or positive thinking line from a 1991 multi level marketing pep rally!
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-06-07/teague-backs-blues-in
Impressive and not a cliche or positive thinking line from a 1991 multi level marketing pep rally!
x2..he is very impressive "
we have to get a game style that suits our players"...hallelujah to that.
Those of us who watched the two's when he coached would know he got the best out of that team and listening to him it was all
about winning and backing players in. Really sounds like we were over complicating things and he wants to strip it back to the basics
and make it easy, free flowing footy and more enjoyable..
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-06-07/teague-backs-blues-in
Impressive and not a cliche or positive thinking line from a 1991 multi level marketing pep rally!
Yep. Back to basics. Realistic. Sounds promising. I can only pray that the boys respond for him.
I understand it is selected by the MC of which the head coach is a member.
:o
So those folk who claimed Polson was getting games because he was Bolton’s pet were talking out of their ask! Who’d have thunk it? ;)
:o
So those folk who claimed Polson was getting games because he was Bolton’s pet were talking out of their ask! Who’d have thunk it? ;)
The small forward cupboard is bare old son. He's named as an emergency because there was actually no-one else to name!
The small forward cupboard is bare old son. He's named as an emergency because there was actually no-one else to name!
His nickname is not "Default" for nothing - oops, take that one back!
His nickname is not "Default" for nothing - oops, take that one back!
:)) :)) :)) :)) gotta say you've been in scintillating form of late, Fluffy One...
The small forward cupboard is bare old son. He's named as an emergency because there was actually no-one else to name!
And that wasn’t the case over the previous 11 rounds?
I just find it amusing that team selections blamed on Bolton are repeated in his absence and it’s all the match committee’s fault. The scapegoating just continues to gather momentum and the real architects of our downfall avoid scrutiny ::)
And that wasn’t the case over the previous 11 rounds?
I just find it amusing that team selections blamed on Bolton are repeated in his absence and it’s all the match committee’s fault. The scapegoating just continues to gather momentum and the real architects of our downfall avoid scrutiny ::)
Oh I don't think they've escaped scrutiny, David. Not even a little bit. The media stuff (TV, Radio, Print & social media) on SOS, Judd and MLG in particular is far from glowing - in fact it's damning... they failed, they're under the pump and they know it.
Oh I don't think they've escaped scrutiny, David. Not even a little bit. The media stuff (TV, Radio, Print & social media) on SOS, Judd and MLG in particular is far from glowing - in fact it's damning... they failed, they're under the pump and they know it.[
And so they damn well should be, they failed dismally and should stand down now. They (Judd and MLG) should have nothing to do with selecting the next coach
And that wasn’t the case over the previous 11 rounds?
I just find it amusing that team selections blamed on Bolton are repeated in his absence and it’s all the match committee’s fault. The scapegoating just continues to gather momentum and the real architects of our downfall avoid scrutiny ::)
Blaming the coach, BB or otherwise, for team selection is not really justified anyway as he is only one voice at the selection table?
Blaming the coach, BB or otherwise, for team selection is not really justified anyway as he is only one voice at the selection table?
But would have a fair say I would imagine Cookie
But would have a fair say I would imagine Cookie
Yep for sure, but I'm not clear who would be the champion of which players. I guess there would be different opinions/agendas in play e.g. winning v. player development v. needs to fill a specific team role etc etc.
And that wasn’t the case over the previous 11 rounds?
I just find it amusing that team selections blamed on Bolton are repeated in his absence and it’s all the match committee’s fault. The scapegoating just continues to gather momentum and the real architects of our downfall avoid scrutiny ::)
I agree, but I probably see the problems in different magnitude to many, they need a whack but not a decapitation! In much the same way I thought BB needed a shot across the bow and not a firing squad!
It's clearly a failing of our club, that we see repeated over and over;
No action
No action
No action
No action
Overreaction
Am I being unfair?
I'm much prefer to move the Titanic around with lots of little nudges, rather than an iceberg! Our Executive and Board come across like the Titanic's Captain, with a reaction that is all too late no matter what it's magnitude might be!
We don't know what has transpired between BB and club management/other coaches etc. in the lead up to his departure. He could well have been counseled for all we know. I'm sure Wallsy wasn't in the coaches box just to pass the time of day and a have a powerade with him.
I'm sure Wallsy wasn't in the coaches box just to pass the time of day and a have a powerade with him.
He is a legend, but let us not guild the lilly on his powers, Walls is as archaic as Malthouse and Sheedy. If he was in there for anything more than a match day token or offering to appease fans it is damning on our club!
Tactically Walls would be almost worthless in modern football!
If a Judd or Carrazzo type had been in the box, it would be a different issue. In fact as Director of Football, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of Judd in the coaches box as an observer, that's where he should be in my opinion, not with his MMM bum buddies!
It's a very valid question, why the feck Walls is in the box and Judd isn't?
He is a legend, but let us not guild the lilly on his powers, Walls is as archaic as Malthouse and Sheedy. If he was in there for anything more than a match day token or offering to appease fans it is damning on our club!
Tactically Walls would be almost worthless in modern football!
If a Judd or Carrazzo type had been in the box, it would be a different issue. In fact as Director of Football, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of Judd in the coaches box as an observer, that's where he should be in my opinion, not with his MMM bum buddies!
It's a very valid question, why the feck Walls is in the box and Judd isn't?
I don't think Walls was mentoring BB in any way and offering advice - he was observing him and his actions/decisions/methods and reporting his findings. Judd of course is non-operational ::).
Judd of course is non-operational ::).
Observing isn't operational unless you get involved, if Judd's not in the box watching first hand what information does he rely on to make a judgement, feedback from Walls or feedback from his commentary box bum buddies? :o
So is Judd really Director of Football, or is that just another token position like Walls mentoring role?
Observing isn't operational unless you get involved, if Judd's not in the box watching first hand what information does he rely on to make a judgement, feedback from Walls or feedback from his commentary box bum buddies? :o
So is Judd really Director of Football, or is that just another token position like Walls mentoring role?
I was being a little sarcastic - I don't think Juddy would really want to be on show in the coaches box - he's above that sort of work. :)