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21
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: DJC – on
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some.  However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.

I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.

It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.

We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.

I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.

I have worked closely with senior Victorian State Government Ministers from the ALP, Liberals and Nationals and I do appreciate how hard they work and the tremendous responsibility they carry.  That responsibility is generally far greater than that borne by a corporate CEO on significantly more money and who is concerned mainly with profits rather than biosecurity, biodiversity, equitable access to health, housing, education, and other issues that may have huge repercussions if not handled well.

The Commonwealth has restrictions on how soon after leaving parliament, former MPs and Senators can work as lobbyists in areas related to their portfolios or with individuals and organisations they dealt with while in parliament.  I don't believe that the States and Territories have similar requirements but the USA and Canada have a five year "cooling off" period.  Once that time limit is up, it's open slather and we have Scott Morrison sitting on the board of DYME Maritime, a capital fund that invests in AUKUS and, of course, the Morrison government formed the AUKUS alliance.  On the other side of the fence, former Labor Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon is a registered lobbyist for Serco, a British multinational defence, health, space, justice, migration, customer services, and transport company.  I don't believe that Morrison or Fitzgibbon would have those roles if it wasn't for their parliamentary service and the contacts they made with the ADF, public servants and defence industries.  In other words, Morrison, Fitzgibbon, Joe Hockey, Peter McGuaran, Marise Payne, Christopher Pyne, and many others are well paid to take advantage of contacts made while in parliament and are drawing substantial parliamentary pensions at the same time. 

Then there's the classic case of Andrew Robb who, as Minister for Trade and Investment, approved Shandong Landbridge Group lease of Port Darwin.  Robb was employed by Shandong Landbridge on $880,000 per year as soon as he left parliament.

Kevin Rudd is apparently drawing half of his parliamentary pension to top up the estimated $350K he receives as our US Ambassador.

I don't have a problem with the substantial parliamentary pensions - they're well-deserved - and I don't have a problem with former politicians working as lobbyists or for companies they may have dealt with in an official capacity, after a suitable cooling off period (closer to 5 years than 18 months).  I do have an issue with former politicians drawing on their parliamentary pension while occupying highly paid positions, and particularly when they're paid out of the public purse. 
22
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by LP -
I read it as a big win for Ley today, having Price pull the plug on running for deputy, it probably also spells the end for Price leaving her homeless on that side of politics as it alienates her supporters.

I don't think it's possible in the current political situation for these "Liberals" to hunker down and ride out the next few years before resurfacing, there won't be anything left to surface into! To get back they now have to destroy what remains from the inside, and that is counterproductive. They aren't Little Johnny, and it's not 1999, he could only do what he did because he was only failing by narrow margins.
23
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by LP -
Quote from: DJC – on
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some.  However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.

I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.

It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.

We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.

I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.
24
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by Thryleon -
226 seats in parliament and these guys get paid those sorts of benefits across the board.

Career politicians....

LP, you've missed the mark so widely in what I was getting at.  Most people in industry (IT) dont truly ever switch off.  There are oncall shifts for a reason, and most of the time, there is a lot of unrewarded work done, because the impact is highly visible instead of their profile.  You wont see them getting a paid government pension for life (means tested, wont even get a pension, so their super fund will do, or its the aged pension) nor their widows and kids. 

From where I sit, these ministers are senior managers.  The wear responsibility, but the actual work is delegated out underneath them, and they will scape goat people if it ensures they come out of it smelling like roses.  They are career talkers without doing.  They get paid handsomely for it, and they will change parties if it will keep them riding that gravy train.  You wont see, hear or know who really does the work.  Thing is its a giant pyramid scheme.  Directors, Associate directors, Associate Program directors.  All of them toiling away underneath making sure everything is going ahead.

Media reporting on the gravy...  I spit on the assertion that my views are swayed by media and that any stone throwing comes from media.  From where I sit, these people get paid a lot of money to oversea that work delegated gets done, but the work delegated is the actual work involved, and they wouldnt know if it got done without an audit from someone like KPMG, PWC or Deloitte.



My opinion has come from what I have seen and experienced working in a variety of government roles.  Lots of reporting done, with no one really needing to read it.  Lots of managers and middle managers who hold pretend accountability and talk a good game, without having any game of their own.

The more disconnected these people become from every day Australians, the more scope there is for bad outcomes and decision making.  Duttons price of eggs answer tells the story as well as any.  The fact that Albanese had an idea of the cost of eggs, is likely a result of him having prepared better, but neither of them are buying their own eggs and I was expecting both of them to get it wildly wrong and to be honest, based on their guesstimates, both are incorrect.  10 dollars these days for a dozen eggs is about what ive seen unless you go for the lowest cost eggs, rather than observing where they come from. 









25
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.

Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.

I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some.  However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.

I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
26
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 9 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St. Kilda
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: LoveNavy – on
Glad we found a way to tough it out instead of folding. Against Saints and Ross was extra satisfying.

Leaders led. Runners kept running. Big fwds and an unlikely big defender, got it through the big sticks. Our youngsters showed they've got something. Our flexible guys flexed. The coach outcoached the old cockroach.

Only one game but we won a different way. A way that shows we have ticker. A long way to go for sure but a great one to put down to experience.

Yep, sure was great (and a little bit painful - 3rd qtr) to watch. And see the lads see off the Aints... at last!

Wet blanket time. However, Ross, in his stubbornness, actually helped us win by making the game, especially in the 3rd qtr, a rolling, rugby like scrum, giving us time -- as Vossy pointed out -- to rest and reassess. Most opposition coaches would have taken advantage of our reduced rotations and sped up the game.

I've watched our final qtr again. Gee there were some impressive individual efforts helping to get us over the line: Crippa, Motlop, White, backline boys, Cooper and of course, H.

Lyon is very much a one dimensional coach and, I suspect, not at all collegiate in his decision making.  On the other hand, Vossy is smart enough to know that he doesn’t have all the answers and takes on board suggestions and solutions from his assistants.  He is also happy to give them credit.

Watching the highlights and a replay made me realise how important Sam Walsh is.  I couldn’t fit him into my best five but his work in facilitating forward handballs and breaking the lines is brilliant.

There were quite a few stand out moments but the Cooper Lord goal was superb play. Binns extracted the ball (not something he’s known for) and got it to Hewett. Lord was in the perfect spot for a handball receive and took off before pinpointing a pass to Curnow.  Curnow had worked his butt off to get up to the wing and burnt his defender off to take an uncontested mark. He spotted McKay who had also burnt off his opponent and nailed the pass.  Lord had kept running towards the goals and doubled back to accept another pinpoint pass, then finished off his good work with a 50m goal.

Two handpasses, three kicks and we’ve scored a goal with no Saints players getting within cooee of the pill.

Charlie’s role in that passage of play was pivotal and highlighted his tank, athleticism and effort, but credit must go to Lord for his anticipation, execution, run, footy nous and coolness in slotting a crucial goal. Not bad for a bloke in his 10th game!
27
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 10 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney in Sydney
Last post by LP -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Is this really a fair whinge you guys are having?
I might have rants, that more designed to set the record straight as opposed to expecting any change. I gravely doubt it would be economically viable to force a balanced competition. But we shouldn't accept some of the claims of privilege based on a false premise.

Personally, I trust Cook. AFL is not fair, never was and never will be! :o
28
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 10 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney in Sydney
Last post by Thryleon -
Is this really a fair whinge you guys are having?

They've already gone to:
GWS up north.
Freo at Optus,
Brisbane at the Gabba
Sydney for Gather round in Adelaide.
Theyll go to Gold Coast later on in the year, and
Adelaide at Adelaide.

Aside from playing west coast at home (better they dont get an away bye against them too) and Port Adelaide in Adelaide (one match against last years top 6 side, which was at the G and Pies home game), where else would it be fair for them to play again?

Given the spread of interstate teams you either travel early or you travel late, or you spread your travel out.  Usually you see a run of melbourne games coincide with shorter breaks between matches. 

Each Melbourne based team will only realistically play roughly 8 true away games if the fixture works against them. 

Ours this year:

Gather round was a home game vs West Coast (dismiss this, everyone goes to gather round, be it home or away).

We travelled to Adelaide against Adelaide.
We are going to Sydney this week against the Swans.
We play west coast in Perth round 14 is the next true travelling game.
Port in Adelaide round 16
Freo in perth round 21

We have dodged Queensland altogether this year.

You can only hope for an equitable amount of travel.  The pies have managed to get most of it in prior to round 10, and had they lost most of those games this conversation would be very different.  Instead, they have managed to win, and win well. 

The way I see it, we will go interstate 6 times, and they will go 6 this year.  Hardly "grossly unfair" particularly with us not even touching one of the Northern states although we are travelling to Perth twice which is arguably more difficult due to time differences and jet lag.  You can only hope for a longer turnaround on the back of that travel. 





29
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Last post by LP -
Quote from: Baggers – on
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.

Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.