Carlton Supporters Club

Fitness for office, ability to lead, actually being a professional politician (as opposed to a professional clown) are all the types of things voters ought be considering when they vote. I never liked Hilary, but she is infinitely more qualified to be President than Trump, and would do a much better job. The big FU is cheap satisfaction that rarely works.

You are right Paul that being an able and competent politician should be just about the most important factor... A criteria that doesn't gift anyone the role, but can preclude people from it, but I understand how Trump was voted in and the establishment needed a wake up and it is getting it world wide.
Where the governments have become complacent to the needs of the people and the people are saying they won't take it anymore. They won't allow governments to rip up what they have built their lives building.

I think an anti-establishment vote can though serve a real purpose and it might even do that in this case as well, if it doesn't bring down the US in the process, which is a serious possibility.. Or bring the world to war.

Hilary was an awful choice for president, so awful that to many people they would rather take the shake up and turmoil than to have her in the Oval Office. I wouldn't have wanted to vote for her either if I stayed there and I would only vote Democrat.

The perfect scenario is that Trump is impeached or resigns from office soon, before too much damage is done. Someone (anyone sensible) takes over from him to see out the term and both parties take something from this. I hope the Democrats take from it that they need an alternative nominee and the Republicans... well most are inbred so I am not sure they will learn much, but anything is possible.

She's a crazy neo-con, a war monger. Evil personified. A New World Order type, as was Obama sadly.

That said, Trump now seems to be (largely) playing to the same songbook?

She's a crazy neo-con, a war monger. Evil personified. A New World Order type, as was Obama sadly.

That said, Trump now seems to be (largely) playing to the same songbook?

I liked Bernie Sanders. And whilst i was no Hilary fan, she was at least aware of the significance of office.

If the establishment must be sent a message, this is a pretty severe way of doing it.

It is, but it is almost what is needed at times.
Take the French Revolution.. Was that a good thing?
Well in the immediate aftermath, almost certainly no...
There was the Reign of Terror to follow as a direct result and absolute chaos, but in the long run.. yes.
The country and it's people were better off.

It can also backfire and some would suggest the Russian Revolution is an example, with the oppression potentially the power corrupting Lenin (and more significantly Stalin) so that the people were more oppressed than they were under Tsarist rule.

Yeah it is a topic I am fairly interested in and I am a fan of Lenin (to a degree...), but he was completely ineffectual as a leader and you are right in saying that Russia never achieved or come close to achieving the goal they set out to achieve when they first set out to overthrow the monarchy.

I won't stray too far off topic, but I think Lenin genuinely wanted to achieve a Utopian world where the collective worked for each other, with all equal etc when he went down the path and I admire his determination in setting his life on that course, but (in a way similar to Lech Walesa in Poland), he was far better at inspiring and achieving revolution, than he was in ruling.

I don't know there has even been a country ruled on true socialist principles and I don't know that there ever will be. But... I think that is as far off the Trump topic as I will go