Carlton Supporters Club

I will not be happy if we can't get North beaten.

Crash wont be happy :(

Some stats:
We won the hit outs, just, at 41-39
We marginally lost the clearances 36-37.
We had 128 fewer disposals, including 102 fewer handpasses.
They had 110 more uncontested possessions.

I will not be happy if we can't get North beaten.

Sorry Capt CRASH, a side we should have beaten gave us a lesson in passion, spirit and ruthlessness.

Shizen, rumours, please note rumour, Jones might have a neck fracture.

8.14 is poor football. North's 229 to our 127 hand passes really highlights the run and carry game......and our lack of pressure :-(

Some stats:
We won the hit outs, just, at 41-39
We marginally lost the clearances 36-37.
We had 128 fewer disposals, including 102 fewer handpasses.
They had 110 more uncontested possessions.

I thought their use of handball was very impressive.
There always seemed to be a team-mate on hand to take possession.
I guess that's part of playing like a team....I think we still have a bit of a way to go with that aspect.

Another example of our team saving their worst football for a side we should be beating. Next week we'll get absolutely shellacked. I can't see Bolton lasting  till the end of the year now. Who would want to coach Carlton? It's a f%×$in death trap for coaches.

Crash wont be happy :(

He'll be joined by at least 60 000 others.
Man. Just shows our best without too many injuries is there abouts.
A few injuries and we're not AFL standard.

Early last week I was thinking our defense is really holding up. Our mids are gelling but likely to be inconsist. Our forward line is developing. A week later and our defense is wiped out with injuries, leaving us hobbling on one foot.

All the best to Liam Jones. I'd expect him to miss next week as best case scenario.

Presser will likely cause widespread nausea for Bluebaggers. Be prepared.

My condolences to those who spent their hard earned and suffered the same feat as 2018.

Some stats:
We won the hit outs, just, at 41-39
We marginally lost the clearances 36-37.
We had 128 fewer disposals, including 102 fewer handpasses.
They had 110 more uncontested possessions.

What about passion, tenacity and ruthlessness? Any stats available on those most important indicators?

He'll be joined by at least 60 000 others.
Man. Just shows our best without too many injuries is there abouts.
A few injuries and we're not AFL standard.

Early last week I was thinking our defense is really holding up. Our mids are gelling but likely to be inconsist. Our forward line is developing. A week later and our defense is wiped out with injuries, leaving us hobbling on one foot.

All the best to Liam Jones. I'd expect him to miss next week as best case scenario.

Presser will likely cause widespread nausea for Bluebaggers. Be prepared.

My condolences to those who spent their hard earned and suffered the same feat as 2018.

Plowman looked to hurt his shoulder towards the end too.
Defence has been our strength this year.
We'll struggle to field a defence next week.

And yes... all the best for Jones.

Shizen, rumours, please note rumour, Jones might have a neck fracture.

Broadcasters refused to show the injury / incident until they realised he was at least conscious.

Very rare that they would take that stance, so they must've got word very early on that it was very serious. Given it was essentially an in play footballing incident.

FWIW, i rewound it a few times, was he awarded the mark for that because he took it.
Given the North bloke went the bump on him, he is liable for an accidental head clash and the resulting injury?

"If you want to bump, you have to suffer the consequences if a player gets injured"


Lets see if they've softened that stance.

Swans are on the bottom now. We lost to them too.

Today there was a clear disconnect from half back through to half forward.

This is what happens when you lose 313 games of experience on one side (Simpson) and a solid contributor on the other side (Newman) and replace them with a first gamer (Stocker) and a bloke who hasn't played an AFL game for over 2 years.

We just couldn't get setup today and move the ball

Broadcasters refused to show the injury / incident until they realised he was at least conscious.

Very rare that they would take that stance, so they must've got word very early on that it was very serious. Given it was essentially an in play footballing incident.

FWIW, i rewound it a few times, was he awarded the mark for that because he took it.
Given the North bloke went the bump on him, he is liable for an accidental head clash and the resulting injury?

"If you want to bump, you have to suffer the consequences if a player gets injured"


Lets see if they've softened that stance.

They will apply the same "usually" rule that seems to be the overarching rule of the AFL.
Usually means it applies to 17 teams..... you know the rest. .

Smashed in the middle in the first quarter. Zeibel tagged Cripps. Game over!

Today there was a clear disconnect from half back through to half forward.

This is what happens when you lose 313 games of experience on one side (Simpson) and a solid contributor on the other side (Newman) and replace them with a first gamer (Stocker) and a bloke who hasn't played an AFL game for over 2 years.

We just couldn't get setup today and move the ball

That's a very good point Kruddler.
You've captured what we could see nicely.

Like I said, I'm Nostradumus...predicted basically every thing that happened today  in the pre-game thread.  Even said it would be over at quarter time.  Am I happy about it - NO - I'm not, but the predictability of it pisses me no end.

Blind Freddy could see what was going to happen - starting with Norths "harder" players flogging us - and that's being polite.  Zurhaar being BOG...really?  REALLY?

I don't see why we continue to play so many what could be politely described as timid at the contest - until we start acquiring some old school hardness we'll continue to be road kill.

Fact is, we are 1 win and too many losses.  Now an utterly non-competitive 10 goal loss to a nothing side....  I've seen enough.  Bolton couldn't coach, or motivate, flies to land on crap.  He's got the players, he's had enough time, but they still ain't winning. The clown has to go.

Just once I'd like to front up at the footy hoping for something like an honourable loss.  Twenty screwING years now.  HOW LONG CARLTON HOW ^$^(%)%ing long do we have to wait to be relevant again?

Broadcasters refused to show the injury / incident until they realised he was at least conscious.

Very rare that they would take that stance, so they must've got word very early on that it was very serious. Given it was essentially an in play footballing incident.

FWIW, i rewound it a few times, was he awarded the mark for that because he took it.
Given the North bloke went the bump on him, he is liable for an accidental head clash and the resulting injury?

"If you want to bump, you have to suffer the consequences if a player gets injured"


Lets see if they've softened that stance.

Couldn't understand why the player wasn't cited by the umpire immediately as it's very clear that the North Melbourne player has a duty of care in that contest. Will be a farce if he isn't booked and suspended.

Today there was a clear disconnect from half back through to half forward.

This is what happens when you lose 313 games of experience on one side (Simpson) and a solid contributor on the other side (Newman) and replace them with a first gamer (Stocker) and a bloke who hasn't played an AFL game for over 2 years.

We just couldn't get setup today and move the ball

Cunnington and crew beat us up around the ball, there was nothing to connect, we were soft at the contest and lost interest, they were all over us from the first bounce.
We got unlucky playing them after a backs to the wall week from the media and Scott having his job under threat and they know the recipe on how to beat us
from previous games. Once Cripps is under control we cant win and Scott was smart enough to tag him with his two best players until it was junk time, then he didnt care.
Agree Stocker playing his first game wasnt ideal and Williamson probably needed another game in the NB's as he looked off the pace.....

Today there was a clear disconnect from half back through to half forward.

This is what happens when you lose 313 games of experience on one side (Simpson) and a solid contributor on the other side (Newman) and replace them with a first gamer (Stocker) and a bloke who hasn't played an AFL game for over 2 years.

We just couldn't get setup today and move the ball

Nuh, not buying it. If only it were that simple... if Simpson and Newman are worth 10+ goals, holy cr@p are we a one dimensional side in deep trouble. If you look closely, from the get go we looked confused, even lethargic at times.

The Kangabies lost a key defender in the 2nd qtr for the game yet it didn't wrinkle their application and ruthless attitude.

Again, when challenged with bona fide pressure we cr@p ourselves, been that way for years... it embedded in our culture now. Opposition sides know it.

"If you want to bump, you have to suffer the consequences if a player gets injured"


Lets see if they've softened that stance.

He didn't choose to bump, both players had their eyes on the ball with arms cradled to take a mark and had a head clash, not reportable at all.

Cunnington and crew beat us up around the ball, there was nothing to connect, we were soft at the contest and lost interest, they were all over us from the first bounce.
We got unlucky playing them after a backs to the wall week from the media and Scott having his job under threat and they know the recipe on how to beat us
from previous games. Once Cripps is under control we cant win and Scott was smart enough to tag him with his two best players until it was junk time, then he didnt care.
Agree Stocker playing his first game wasnt ideal and Williamson probably needed another game in the NB's as he looked off the pace.....

Agree, totally flogged around the contest.
We got Kennedy to help Cripps in the middle, then play SPS, DOw and Cunningham in there.
We have to spread the load so we aren’t so farking predictable.
Too easy to coach against

Cunnington and crew beat us up around the ball, there was nothing to connect, we were soft at the contest and lost interest, they were all over us from the first bounce.
We got unlucky playing them after a backs to the wall week from the media and Scott having his job under threat and they know the recipe on how to beat us
from previous games. Once Cripps is under control we cant win and Scott was smart enough to tag him with his two best players until it was junk time, then he didnt care.
Agree Stocker playing his first game wasnt ideal and Williamson probably needed another game in the NB's as he looked off the pace.....

Last bit was the only bright side. We got in a game into them on a day we went $hithouse.

It was a Norf player on a CFC player... so its "play on".  Report?    Oh, that's funny, ROFLMAO....  Lucky Jones wasn't free kicked for sheparding off the ball.

Been that way for 20 years.

He didn't choose to bump, both players had their eyes on the ball with arms cradled to take a mark and had a head clash, not reportable at all.

Agree.....Zurhaar had blood pouring from his head so it was just a bad head clash which can happen, none of our players remonstrated either.

Like I said, I'm Nostradumus...predicted basically every thing that happened today  in the pre-game thread.  Even said it would be over at quarter time.  Am I happy about it - NO - I'm not, but the predictability of it pisses me no end.

Blind Freddy could see what was going to happen - starting with Norths "harder" players flogging us - and that's being polite.  Zurhaar being BOG...really?  REALLY?

I don't see why we continue to play so many what could be politely described as timid at the contest - until we start acquiring some old school hardness we'll continue to be road kill.

Fact is, we are 1 win and too many losses.  Now an utterly non-competitive 10 goal loss to a nothing side....  I've seen enough.  Bolton couldn't coach, or motivate, flies to land on crap.  He's got the players, he's had enough time, but they still ain't winning. The clown has to go.

Just once I'd like to front up at the footy hoping for something like an honourable loss.  Twenty screwING years now.  HOW LONG CARLTON HOW ^$^(%)%ing long do we have to wait to be relevant again?

Yep, the centre was a bit like watching a young amateurs side vs a hardened EDFL side. But what do you do about it? Let's say that we agree that LOB & Marc Murphy are as soft was they come and run from a contest. We could replace them both with Setterfield and Kennedy, but will that help? Only marginally is my guess.

The close in game today suited them, but we couldn't get the ball into space and when we did the running ahead of the ball by our forwards was amateur at best. C Curnow was at one point running away from the drop zone of te kickers in front of him which caused a turnover. Some of these guys aint too bright.

I have nausea ... and vertigo.

The nausea is from the Jones injury.  I hate that part of the game.

The vertigo is from standing here on this ledge waiting for PaulP to talk me down.  Hurry up PP, it's cold out here.

Agree, totally flogged around the contest.
We got Kennedy to help Cripps in the middle, then play SPS, DOw and Cunningham in there.
We have to spread the load so we aren’t so farking predictable.
Too easy to coach against

SPS, Dow, Cuningham, LOB wont be winning too many contested ball vs Cunnington, Ziebell etc......we needed more mongrel types to fight fire with fire, Kennedy and Setterfield are
more likely types to use vs Nth. Like I said before you add a newbie in Stocker and a underdone in Williamson and we looked light on.
Their ins also were handy....Williams, Garner, Simpkin, Higgins made them a better team and we just looked overwhelmed physically.

What a waste of emotional energy. Waited all week for this game. Next 4 games will seal Bolton’s firing: Pies, Giants, Saints, Bombers. 1-10 coming up.

So many passengers. And 60,000 paid up, expecting Members. Time is running out. LP said it best the other day. You can’t have it both ways and not expect criticism if you’re selling such high hopes to expectant Members. Deliver or else.

We need a mature Ruckman and Setterfield and Kennedy in there to help Cripps next week. At least that’ll give us a chance to rest him up forward and cause opposition to do some thinking and spare the poor bugger. Instead of just making it easy for them.

I’d also be nice to have a Coach who has a plan B that he has the courage to implement. Otherwise he might as well watch the game at home. I see very little to convince me that he can Coach on Game Day.

Throw picks at Sydney for Papley (small forward) and get a mature Ruckman in the mid season draft. Whatever. Just don’t ever play Lobbe or Phillips again. And drop Plowman, Cas, LOB and Murphy. No one is safe from lack of effort, or laughing when your friend is lying unconscious on the turf. What a. Total. Twat.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Plowman is not the quickest thinking fella. Its not just skill errors. Something is not right there. Makes so many dumb decisions and has terrible, terrible half hearted body language. Not what you want your young crop to be surrounded by and absorbing. Same as LOB and Murphy. Effort fellas. Just. Get. Stuck. In. Whether you play 1 game or 250. If you play the Blues, you need to expect to scrap. And we gift games to individuals who don’t do that. And you wonder why they do it every game. Pathetic.

Let’s see what our illustrious Coach and Match Committee can do. How courageous will they be to drop players for lack of effort, not just enforced changes due to injury. I remain unconvinced. With Jones and the others out...ahh forget it.

I’d make plans now to get the interviews underway for a new Coach.

I need to go for a walk and cool off. Very disheartened.

There is no doubt that we are the most psychologically brittle side in the AFL, the Kangabies helped to underline that today. And remember, the Kangabies were the bottom side until we came along.

Just no fibre, no steel in our attitude or endeavour.

Remember that the Kangabies lost a key defender in the 2nd quarter yet it didn't soften or weaken their endeavour or effectiveness one iota - steely resolve.

A more uninspired group, at present, you just won't find.

If you're managing Cripps, Fisher, SPS... you're gathering phone numbers of list managers in the West, as a figure of speech. After all, you must do what is in the best interest of your clients.

If this was one out of the blue, you'd chalk it up to an aberration... but this is our club, fold under pressure... just more of the same, just highly emphasised today due to the margin of the hiding.

Agree.....Zurhaar had blood pouring from his head so it was just a bad head clash which can happen, none of our players remonstrated either.

these things are subjective, but its not how I saw it. both players were originally going for the ball, however when Jones was going to get there first Zurhaar decided to turn his body and shirt-front him, injurying himself in the process. I'd give him 2 weeks minimum for that.

I think Murph has to think long and hard about his future.  If he's contracted for 202O as well he needs to consider if he wants to truly play and contribute, because he's just embarrassing himself now. 

As does Lachie O'Brien.  Start attacking the contest or F off and play netball.  I wasn't happy when we drafted this bloke and I am yet to see anything different.  Time for a cup of concrete Lachlan.

As for Casboult, words fail me.  Coach killer.


I can handle losing, but I can't handle shirkers.  Just give the 60 000 long suffering members a fair dinkum effort, is it too much to ask?

Any update on Liam?

What a waste of emotional energy. Waited all week for this game. Next 4 games will seal Bolton’s firing: Pies, Giants, Saints, Bombers. 1-10 coming up.

So many passengers. And 60,000 paid up, expecting Members. Time is running out. LP said it best the other day. You can’t have it both ways and not expect criticism if you’re selling such high hopes to expectant Members. Deliver or else.

We need a mature Ruckman and Setterfield and Kennedy in there to help Cripps next week. At least that’ll give us a chance to rest him up forward and cause opposition to do some thinking and spare the poor bugger. Instead of just making it easy for them.

I’d also be nice to have a Coach who has a plan B that he has the courage to implement. Otherwise he might as well watch the game at home. I see very little to convince me that he can Coach on Game Day.

Throw picks at Sydney for Papley (small forward) and get a mature Ruckman in the mid season draft. Whatever. Just don’t ever play Lobbe or Phillips again. And drop Plowman, Cas, LOB and Murphy. No one is safe from lack of effort, or laughing when your friend is lying unconscious on the turf. What a. Total. Twat.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Plowman is not the quickest thinking fella. Its not just skill errors. Something is not right there. Makes so many dumb decisions and has terrible, terrible half hearted body language. Not what you want your young crop to be surrounded by and absorbing. Same as LOB and Murphy. Effort fellas. Just. Get. Stuck. In. Whether you play 1 game or 250. If you play the Blues, you need to expect to scrap. And we gift games to individuals who don’t do that. And you wonder why they do it every game. Pathetic.

Let’s see what our illustrious Coach and Match Committee can do. How courageous will they be to drop players for lack of effort, not just enforced changes due to injury. I remain unconvinced. With Jones and the others out...ahh forget it.

I’d make plans now to get the interviews underway for a new Coach.

I need to go for a walk and cool off. Very disheartened.

What a thoughtful post. Reckon you'll have about 55,000 heads nodding at much of what you wrote there. There's always the 5000 who will believe whatever the club/senior coach tell them.

If this was one out of the blue, you'd chalk it up to an aberration... but this is our club, fold under pressure... just more of the same, just highly emphasised today due to the margin of the hiding.

I knew it was coming, could read it like a book. Struggling side under immense pressure from the media, enter Carlton the circuit breaker. Until we can arrest that trend and be the reason other coaches are sacked, more of the same and more frustration for us lies ahead. I turned it off after 1/4 time and went out to prune the roses as I had seen enough. As disappointing a game as I have seen from us.

Also, I saw vision of Stocker at the start of the game, he had a look on his face like he was crapting his pants. His first kick was a turnover, dont know how he went qtrs 2 3 and 4.

Emotionally checked out

Baggers, who was laughing when Jones was KO'd? 

these things are subjective, but its not how I saw it. both players were originally going for the ball, however when Jones was going to get there first Zurhaar decided to turn his body and shirt-front him, injurying himself in the process. I'd give him 2 weeks minimum for that.

Exactly as I saw it. But this'll be one that the AFL will be quick to sweep under the 'they were both going for it - accident' carpet.

Headline should read tomorrow

Carlton Again folds when under physical pressure.

Jack Silvagni, Daisy Thomas, Zac Fisher and Jacob Weitering, you can hold your heads up and Jones, Walsh & Stocker, I'll give you a pass but everyone else needs a good old fashioned bollocking, starting with Cripps & Murphy our so called leaders.

Cripps was found wanting, it's easy to go in hard against non hard players, but where was the desire inside? Murphy, you need to retire, players waltz through your tackles, you don't run anywhere near as hard as you used to and your disposal and decision making is diabolical.

Marchbank runs around looking for frees and is 50/50 on his disposal at best. He doesn't intercept mark anymore so what is he actually good for.
Plowman did a couple of decent things but his complete lack of intensity and skill makes him a D grade player.
Williamson on that effort should be straight back to the 2s
O'Brien is a boy playing a mans game and looks scared.

Casboult is still a dud, one good game against a small team in the Doggies and now he's back to good old sh1t Casboult
McKay was slaughtered and looks tired.
C Curnow not enough
Cunningham goes missing every game he plays
E Curnow has had his one wood taken away. They said he was a forward to create pressure, I'd love to know how many forward line tackles he's laid this season.
Gibbons another Lamb/Kerridge/Lucas/Boekhurst

Philips is a c grade ruckman, which I suppose is better than the d grader in Lobbe
SPS the game gets physical and he goes missing
Dow poor and unskilled

Team selection - It's not a secret that North have big strong bodies around the ball so why leave Setterfield and Kennedy out?

Coaching - It's been 4 years and still we have not taught/ trained or mids to run back hard. I lost count of how many times I saw Murphy and Cripps just jogging after players after they marked or kicked into 50, and they are our leaders give me a screwkking break.

Bolton - at half time, Fox showed a video where you were saying how well the players have done as they have won half their quarters that they played. The fact that you lost 5 game this season trumps that by a long way. If that is how you coach then it's no wonder that they get all warm and fuzzy with losing every week.

Silvagni any chance you could draft or trade for some real mongrel players?

It's been 18 years of this utter rubbish, sure we won a couple of finals, but we are the only team in that time period that has not made a prelim (gold coast aside).

I understand we are young, but being young doesn't prevent you from trying.

To see Plowman laughing when players were huddling for Jones' injury, 1 his team mate was being stretchered off and 2 we were being slaughtered, made my blood boil. I hope he is dropped and delisted at the end of the year.

This game is a true reflection of where we are, and it's still nowhere.

If Bolton comes out and says we are hurting with you again, I'll spew. It's a job for him, if he gets sacked tomorrow and rehired next season at another club then he'll hurt for them. If a player gets delisted or traded then they don't care what happens to Carlton, but we the true supporters do. I've paid my membership every year since the salary cap scandal, I pay for an interstate membership, which is basically a donation as I don't go to games being in Launceston apart from once a season and this year is was against the Bulldogs so an away game.

I don't get to be sacked or traded, I hurt for every game that is lost, I hurt when I see zero effort by some players, I hurt when at the start of the season we are promised an improved side and get the same rubbish year in and year out. I hurt when I see my sons getting teased on the play ground for supporting Carlton.

I want Bolton to get angry at the players, tell the Carlton faithful that it was not good enough and assure that players like Plowman, Marchbank are on notice or better still dropped, cause the Collingwood forwards will treat then like rag dolls next week.

What a waste of emotional energy. Waited all week for this game. Next 4 games will seal Bolton’s firing: Pies, Giants, Saints, Bombers. 1-10 coming up.

So many passengers. And 60,000 paid up, expecting Members. Time is running out. LP said it best the other day. You can’t have it both ways and not expect criticism if you’re selling such high hopes to expectant Members. Deliver or else.

We need a mature Ruckman and Setterfield and Kennedy in there to help Cripps next week. At least that’ll give us a chance to rest him up forward and cause opposition to do some thinking and spare the poor bugger. Instead of just making it easy for them.

I’d also be nice to have a Coach who has a plan B that he has the courage to implement. Otherwise he might as well watch the game at home. I see very little to convince me that he can Coach on Game Day.

Throw picks at Sydney for Papley (small forward) and get a mature Ruckman in the mid season draft. Whatever. Just don’t ever play Lobbe or Phillips again. And drop Plowman, Cas, LOB and Murphy. No one is safe from lack of effort, or laughing when your friend is lying unconscious on the turf. What a. Total. Twat.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Plowman is not the quickest thinking fella. Its not just skill errors. Something is not right there. Makes so many dumb decisions and has terrible, terrible half hearted body language. Not what you want your young crop to be surrounded by and absorbing. Same as LOB and Murphy. Effort fellas. Just. Get. Stuck. In. Whether you play 1 game or 250. If you play the Blues, you need to expect to scrap. And we gift games to individuals who don’t do that. And you wonder why they do it every game. Pathetic.

Let’s see what our illustrious Coach and Match Committee can do. How courageous will they be to drop players for lack of effort, not just enforced changes due to injury. I remain unconvinced. With Jones and the others out...ahh forget it.

I’d make plans now to get the interviews underway for a new Coach.

I need to go for a walk and cool off. Very disheartened.

Couldn't agree more on Plowman. Wouldn't be phased if he never plays again - he's played well before but he's never going to be that good and certainly nowher near justifyng the hefty draft price SOS paid at GWS. He consistently makes poor decisions.

in reality Plowman, LOB, post Colligwood Daisy, post 200 Murphy & Cas etc all very average, arguably with limited upside but we've got limited choices. When Jones is replaced by Goodard this week, expect a world record number of holding the balls as we'll have three of the slowest defenders in living memory coming out of defence - Weitering, Goddard, Plowman. Weitering took a step back today also and I have to say that Marchbank is also testing my patience with his lack of composure.

Baggers, who was laughing when Jones was KO'd?

I don't know... but I saw someone post here that one of ours was having a giggle with a Kangabies player while Jones lay unconscious... like you I am keen to know who this pr1ck is...  >:(

I knew it was coming, could read it like a book. Struggling side under immense pressure from the media, enter Carlton the circuit breaker. Until we can arrest that trend and be the reason other coaches are sacked, more of the same and more frustration for us lies ahead. I turned it off after 1/4 time and went out to prune the roses as I had seen enough. As disappointing a game as I have seen from us.

Also, I saw vision of Stocker at the start of the game, he had a look on his face like he was crapting his pants. His first kick was a turnover, dont know how he went qtrs 2 3 and 4.

Stocker was ok and I would be keeping him in the team, bad day to play your first game and the pressure/physicality was at a high level from North.

Baggers, who was laughing when Jones was KO'd?

It was Plowman. Irrespective of what was said to make him laugh, you need very little emotional intelligence or empathy to understand that there is a time and place for it. Ideally, the senior players, whom I believe Plowman is one of, should have brought the players into a huddle to focus them.

Headline should read tomorrow

Carlton Again folds when under physical pressure.

Jack Silvagni, Daisy Thomas, Zac Fisher and Jacob Weitering, you can hold your heads up and JOnes, Walsh & Stocker, I'll give you a pass but everyone else needs a good old fashioned bollocking, starting with Cripps & Murphy our so called leaders.

Cripps was found wanting, it's easy to go in hard against non hard players, but where was the desire inside? Murphy, you need to retire, players waltz through your tackles, you don't run anywhere near as hard as you used to and your disposal and decision making is diabolical.

Marchbank runs around looking for frees and is 50/50 on his disposal at best. He doesn't intercept mark anymore so what is he actually good for.
Plowman did a couple of decent things but his complete lack of intensity and skill makes him a D grade player.
Williamson on that effort should be straight back to the 2s
O'Brien is a boy playing a mans game and looks scared.

Casboult is still a dud, one good game against a small team in the Doggies and now he's back to good old sh1t Casboult
McKay was slaughtered and looks tired.
C Curnow not enough
Cunningham goes missing every game he plays
E Curnow has had his one wood taken away. They said he was a forward to create pressure, I'd love to know how many forward line tackles he's laid this season.
Gibbons another Lamb/Kerridge/Lucas/Boekhurst

Philips is a c grade ruckman, which I suppose is better than the d grader in Lobbe
SPS the game gets physical and he goes missing
Dow poor and unskilled

Team selection - It's not a secret that North have big strong bodies around the ball so why leave Setterfield out?

Coaching - It's been 4 years and still we have not taught/ trained or mids to run back hard. I lost count of how many times I saw Murphy and Cripps just jogging after players after they marked or kicked into 50, and they are our leaders give me a screwkking break.

Bolton - at half time, Fox showed a video where you were saying how well the players have done as they have won half their quarters that they played. The fact that you lost 5 game this season trumps that by a long way. If that is how you coach then it's no wonder that they get all warm and fuzzy with losing every week.

Silvagni any chance you could draft or trade for some real mongrel players?

It's been 18 years of this utter rubbish, sure we won a couple of finals, but we are the only team in that time period that has not made a prelim (gold coast aside).

I understand we are young, but being young doesn't prevent you from trying.

To see Plowman laughing when players were huddling for Jones' injury, 1 his team mate was being stretchered off and 2 we were being slaughtered, made my blood boil. I hope he is dropped and delisted at the end of the year.

This game is a true reflection of where we are, and it's still nowhere.

If Bolton comes out and says we are hurting with you again, I'll spew. It's a job for him, if he gets sacked tomorrow and rehired next season at another club then he'll hurt for them. If a player gets delisted or traded then they don't care what happens to Carlton, but we the true supporters do. I've paid my membership every year since the salary cap scandal, I pay for an interstate membership, which is basically a donation as I don't go to games being in Launceston apart from once a season and this year is was against the Bulldogs so an away game.

I don't get to be sacked or traded, I hurt for every game that is lost, I hurt when I see zero effort by some players, I hurt when at the start of the season we are promised an improved side and get the same rubbish year in and year out. I hurt when I see my sons getting teased on the play ground for supporting Carlton.

I want Bolton to get angry at the players, tell the Carlton faithful that it was not good enough and assure that players like Plowman, Marchbank are on notice or better still dropped, cause the Collingwood forwards will treat then like rag dolls next week.

So glad you highlighted this. I nearly hit the roof when I saw that... Mrs Baggers and the dog left the room (and the dog is a Doberman!!). Any wonder our blokes play the way they do... still speechless and flabbergasted...

I think Murph has to think long and hard about his future.  If he's contracted for 202O as well he needs to consider if he wants to truly play and contribute, because he's just embarrassing himself now. 

As does Lachie O'Brien.  Start attacking the contest or F off and play netball.  I wasn't happy when we drafted this bloke and I am yet to see anything different.  Time for a cup of concrete Lachlan.

As for Casboult, words fail me.  Coach killer.


I can handle losing, but I can't handle shirkers.  Just give the 60 000 long suffering members a fair dinkum effort, is it too much to ask?

I don't want to single Murphy out, as there was too little from too many across the field.
That said, I haven't seen much from Murphy this season that inspires me. And I've been a fan.
There's something not right. A bloke who's been around for so long will know exactly what that is, and whether it is fixable.
I'd be asking the hard questions and reminding him of the mid season draft deadline,  which I think is looming. There's an out that is respectful and for the greater good.

Plowman and Marchbank have been poor for a while...both over-rated terrible decision makers with ball in hand, if we had anything better I would drop them.
Plowman was laughing about something and it wasnt a good look when Jones was so badly hurt..its scary thinking of no Jones next week and Weitering with kids like Stocker
and Williamson taking on Collingwoods vast array of forward talent.

It was Plowman. Irrespective of what was said to make him laugh, you need very little emotional intelligence or empathy to understand that there is a time and place for it. Ideally, the senior players, whom I believe Plowman is one of, should have brought the players into a huddle to focus them.

I'm not sure you can take one moment in time and make something of it without context. How do we know someone didn't do one big, loud, dirty, smelly fart in the huddle. That'd get a chuckle at a funeral wake.

Plowman and Marchbank have been poor for a while...both over-rated terrible decision makers with ball in hand, if we had anything better I would drop them.
Plowman was laughing about something and it wasnt a good look when Jones was so badly hurt..its scary thinking of no Jones next week and Weitering with kids like Stocker
and Williamson taking on Collingwoods vast array of forward talent.

Marchbank might be like Weitering, better when he gets a real role, not one defensive tall amongst 4.

I don't want to single Murphy out, as there was too little from too many across the field.
That said, I haven't seen much from Murphy this season that inspires me. And I've been a fan.
There's something not right. A bloke who's been around for so long will know exactly what that is, and whether it is fixable.
I'd be asking the hard questions and reminding him of the mid season draft deadline,  which I think is looming. There's an out that is respectful and for the greater good.

Gibbs & Murphy have been picking and choosing when to play for 2-3 years after a decade of disappointment and that's a hard habit to break. Pick and choose at a decent side with some depth, you're dropped.

Murphy knows that he can run-by or stick an arm in the contest and there will be no repercussion at the selection table.

Iaj, it isn't a good look, the opposite to what he should be showing - interest and concern for a mate.  I'll be honest, it that's how he carries on around a hurt mate then ta ta Plowman, don't let the door hit your ar$e on the way out. 

Too many on our list play like it doesn't matter, they just don't care...  here comes the next cheque...

Last 5 weeks we've played...

Swans
GC
Bulldogs
Hawthorn
North

Really could argue, if we had improved, we'd be 5-2, like Brisbane, or 4-3 against that opposition. Should be with the players we have.

We are 1-6.

Now we have a real $hit run ahead. maybe beat Essendon just because we do, lol, but not alot ahead to look forward to. Could well be 1-10 half way. That might cost someone his job.

Time for Wallsy to take a training session

Iaj, it isn't a good look, the opposite to what he should be showing - interest and concern for a mate.  I'll be honest, it that's how he carries on around a hurt mate then ta ta Plowman, don't let the door hit your ar$e on the way out. 

Too many on our list play like it doesn't matter, they just don't care...  here comes the next cheque...

We still don't know what context it was. We don't jump to conclusions until we know.

Gibbs & Murphy have been picking and choosing when to play for 2-3 years after a decade of disappointment and that's a hard habit to break. Pick and choose at a decent side with some depth, you're dropped.

Murphy knows that he can run-by or stick an arm in the contest and there will be no repercussion at the selection table.

Gibbs learnt that.

Time for Wallsy to take a training session

Boxing gloves?...we need a Strempel session ...

I'm not sure you can take one moment in time and make something of it without context. How do we know someone didn't do one big, loud, dirty, smelly fart in the huddle. That'd get a chuckle at a funeral wake.

The Context my friend is that his colleague is lying unconscious on the ground, while 10’s of thousand of people at the ground and on national tv are watching in stunned belief and dread and he does not have have the emotional intelligence to understand something serious is happening. Hearing a fart is not a get out of jail card. I know it was only an example mate, but he’s a grown man, not a 12 year old and he is also in our Leadership group. He has to own that moment and be taken aside and told that that is not a time to laugh but a time to lead.

The Context my friend is that his colleague is lying unconscious on the ground, while 10’s of thousand of people at the ground and on national tv are watching in stunned belief and dread and he does not have have the emotional intelligence to understand something serious is happening. Hearing a fart is not a get out of jail card. I know it was only an example mate, but he’s a grown man, not a 12 year old and he is also in our Leadership group. He has to own that moment and be taken aside and told that that is not a time to laugh but a time to lead.

Add to that the fact that you are getting your ar$e handed to you

Murphy needs to retire this week.  Plenty of precedent for such an event part way through a season which is slipping away.  Has been ravaged by injuries and sickening knocks over the years from bigger players whose sole intent was to hurt him.

It's sad but it's time.  Replacing him with a youngster who admittedly may not be ready means we'll get a dozen games into some kid who'll then be ready to step up next year instead of 2021. Despite what many think, he was Captain Courageous early in his tenure. The Club won't drop him. The Club has no idea. Sorry Marc, it's the right thing to do. 

We played like 22 scared players trying not to make mistakes and take zero risks today.
And it didn’t work. In fact it had the opposite effect with everyone in the wrong headspace.
Nobody showed desire or a willingness to take the game on and try beating an opponent.

Gibbs & Murphy have been picking and choosing when to play for 2-3 years after a decade of disappointment and that's a hard habit to break. Pick and choose at a decent side with some depth, you're dropped.

Murphy knows that he can run-by or stick an arm in the contest and there will be no repercussion at the selection table.

Yep, been educated by the best of them.
He will be educating our young blokes too and how will they react when Bolton gets the boot and someone tells them some home truths
Like a farking sick merry go round.
I would not play any of
Murphy, LOB, Casboult, Plowman
We need to change the culture
SPS in a wing.
Kennedy and Setterfield must play, so we can mix up the midfield instead of doing the same thing every week

The Context my friend is that his colleague is lying unconscious on the ground, while 10’s of thousand of people at the ground and on national tv are watching in stunned belief and dread and he does not have have the emotional intelligence to understand something serious is happening. Hearing a fart is not a get out of jail card. I know it was only an example mate, but he’s a grown man, not a 12 year old and he is also in our Leadership group. He has to own that moment and be taken aside and told that that is not a time to laugh but a time to lead.

You don't know the context unless you're a mind reader. You catch one glimpse, can't tell anything from that.

My anger isn't so much with the coach...it's more directed at those that thought this rebuild path was the way to go.
Oh, eventually we'll come good, we'll make the finals. 
We may even go further.
But with the way the competition is structured that would have happened anyway....and possibly sooner.
So when we do eventually come out the other side don't bother to tell me this was all worth it.

At the moment we are devoid of depth.
We are super dependent on just a few players
A couple of key injuries or some good coverage on our main movers by the opposition and we're shot units
Some of our younger players look like they need a week off but with a mounting injury toll we won't be able to afford that luxury

I saw some vision of Stocker late in the game when he was standing the mark and the kid basically looked like "WTF have I gotten myself into"

You don't know the context unless you're a mind reader. You catch one glimpse, can't tell anything from that.

It wasn't a good look but I'm prepared to give Plowman the benefit of the doubt.  I wasn't sure if it was a grimace or a giggle from watching the tv.  Some people use humour to defuse or cope with serious situations.

You don't know the context unless you're a mind reader. You catch one glimpse, can't tell anything from that.

You are talking about the second before he laughed. I get that.

I’m talking about a pivotal moment that should have overridden any desire to laugh at that moment in time. You’re getting smashed and humiliated by the bottom placed team in the Comp and a team mate is lying unconscious on the floor. And you’re a member of the Leadership Group. What he should have been doing is talking to his Captain for instructions or maybe taking his defensive group to the side to think of how we cover for our best defender leaving the ground.

Yep, been educated by the best of them.
He will be educating our young blokes too and how will they react when Bolton gets the boot and someone tells them some home truths
Like a farking sick merry go round.
I would not play any of
Murphy, LOB, Casboult, Plowman
We need to change the culture
SPS in a wing.
Kennedy and Setterfield must play, so we can mix up the midfield instead of doing the same thing every week

Cant argue with that, Cripps cant do the heavy lifting every quarter, every game and we need a horses for courses approach.
I'm done with Levi and both Plowman and Marchbank would be in my crosshairs too , SPS is a skilfull player and on a wing today was probably a better position with Kennedy and Setterfield
helping Cripps out in the middle.
I'd also be aiming at the coaches box and at John Barker.....

You are talking about the second before he laughed. I get that.

I’m talking about a pivotal moment that should have overridden any desire to laugh at that moment in time. You’re getting smashed and humiliated by the bottom placed team in the Comp and a team mate is lying unconscious on the floor. And you’re a member of the Leadership Group. What he should have been doing is talking to his Captain for instructions or maybe taking his defensive group to the side to think of how we cover for our best defender leaving the ground.

You don't know what it was. You weren't in the huddle. You're just guessing.

Cant argue with that, Cripps cant do the heavy lifting every quarter, every game and we need a horses for courses approach.
I'm done with Levi and both Plowman and Marchbank would be in my crosshairs too , SPS is a skilfull player and on a wing today was probably a better position with Kennedy and Setterfield
helping Cripps out in the middle.
I'd also be aiming at the coaches box and at John Barker.....

Alot worse than Levi on the ground today. At least he was getting it. Pity it was 0.3 rather than 3.0. He'll be in until McGovern comes back then will probably get dropped. Reason he's stayed in, and unfortunately meant we've had 4 tall forwards at times, is because he has done pretty well. No case to drop him, although I wouldn't play that many talls and a hard decision should've been made.

Marchbank will be better in a key role with some responsibility. He's probably lost like Weitering was last year. Plowman we can take or leave. We play too many talls and it throws some of them out. We pick the wrong side most weeks.

I'd also be aiming at the coaches box and at John Barker.....

Yes!!!
Something has to be done to address our midfield set ups, efforts and player development.
If we can’t/won’t drop Bolton then we have to look at Barker, Bruce and Stanton as the architects of our midfield. We can’t expect change to come by doing the same thing.
I never thought I’d say this but right now I’d rather see Goddard working with our midfield. At least he might instill some aggression into our players. Maybe a Goddard-Diesel pairing for the rest of the season.

Cant argue with that, Cripps cant do the heavy lifting every quarter, every game and we need a horses for courses approach.
I'm done with Levi and both Plowman and Marchbank would be in my crosshairs too , SPS is a skilfull player and on a wing today was probably a better position with Kennedy and Setterfield
helping Cripps out in the middle.
I'd also be aiming at the coaches box and at John Barker.....

I agree but I would put a line thru a few others in the coaches box too.
This can’t continue.
We play like we don’t know how to win, and we do not have one premiership player on our coaching panel.
On top of that, the guy in charge never played senior footy.
Might need some tougher characters around the place.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-05-05/r7-bolton-postmatch

We are also in dire need of some experienced hard nosed and inspirational on field leadership.

Alot worse than Levi on the ground today. At least he was getting it. Pity it was 0.3 rather than 3.0. He'll be in until McGovern comes back then will probably get dropped. Reason he's stayed in, and unfortunately meant we've had 4 tall forwards at times, is because he has done pretty well. No case to drop him, although I wouldn't play that many talls and a hard decision should've been made.

Marchbank will be better in a key role with some responsibility. He's probably lost like Weitering was last year. Plowman we can take or leave. We play too many talls and it throws some of them out. We pick the wrong side most weeks.

I might play Marchbank on a wing, Pies forward line wont suit either Marchbank or Plowman IMO..

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-05-05/r7-bolton-postmatch

Looks worried.....going to rush Kreuzer back....

I probably shouldn't be writing when I am still so angry, but today's effort leaves a very poor taste in my mouth. We were playing the bottom team who couldn't have defeated roadkill and we lost by 10 goals. We are now 2nd bottom, with only Sydney beneath us. Sydney beat us!  >:(
This was by far our worst performance of the year: we couldn't hit a target to save our lives, we could not get a free for love or money, we could not kick for goal (until the last quarter) and we allowed an ordinary team to run all over us and bash us around. We didn't want the ball enough and couldn't do anything with it when we did get it. We couldn't take a mark: we were thrashed in the air for 3 quarters. We were smashed around the packs. We did not appear to have a Plan B, and Plan A was hard to identify as well.
We were badly out-coached by a guy I do not rate.

I was sitting behind the North Melbourne bench. They were totally relaxed and laughing at our mistakes.

I might play Marchbank on a wing, Pies forward line wont suit either Marchbank or Plowman IMO..

If our match day tactics don’t change the personnel we put out there against the pies is irrelevant.

Our zone we be as useful as the Maginot line for stopping the oncoming enemy

Headline should read tomorrow

Carlton Again folds when under physical pressure.

Jack Silvagni, Daisy Thomas, Zac Fisher and Jacob Weitering, you can hold your heads up and Jones, Walsh & Stocker, I'll give you a pass but everyone else needs a good old fashioned bollocking, starting with Cripps & Murphy our so called leaders.

Cripps was found wanting, it's easy to go in hard against non hard players, but where was the desire inside? Murphy, you need to retire, players waltz through your tackles, you don't run anywhere near as hard as you used to and your disposal and decision making is diabolical.

Marchbank runs around looking for frees and is 50/50 on his disposal at best. He doesn't intercept mark anymore so what is he actually good for.
Plowman did a couple of decent things but his complete lack of intensity and skill makes him a D grade player.
Williamson on that effort should be straight back to the 2s
O'Brien is a boy playing a mans game and looks scared.

Casboult is still a dud, one good game against a small team in the Doggies and now he's back to good old sh1t Casboult
McKay was slaughtered and looks tired.
C Curnow not enough
Cunningham goes missing every game he plays
E Curnow has had his one wood taken away. They said he was a forward to create pressure, I'd love to know how many forward line tackles he's laid this season.
Gibbons another Lamb/Kerridge/Lucas/Boekhurst

Philips is a c grade ruckman, which I suppose is better than the d grader in Lobbe
SPS the game gets physical and he goes missing
Dow poor and unskilled

Team selection - It's not a secret that North have big strong bodies around the ball so why leave Setterfield and Kennedy out?

Coaching - It's been 4 years and still we have not taught/ trained or mids to run back hard. I lost count of how many times I saw Murphy and Cripps just jogging after players after they marked or kicked into 50, and they are our leaders give me a screwkking break.

Bolton - at half time, Fox showed a video where you were saying how well the players have done as they have won half their quarters that they played. The fact that you lost 5 game this season trumps that by a long way. If that is how you coach then it's no wonder that they get all warm and fuzzy with losing every week.

Silvagni any chance you could draft or trade for some real mongrel players?

It's been 18 years of this utter rubbish, sure we won a couple of finals, but we are the only team in that time period that has not made a prelim (gold coast aside).

I understand we are young, but being young doesn't prevent you from trying.

To see Plowman laughing when players were huddling for Jones' injury, 1 his team mate was being stretchered off and 2 we were being slaughtered, made my blood boil. I hope he is dropped and delisted at the end of the year.

This game is a true reflection of where we are, and it's still nowhere.

If Bolton comes out and says we are hurting with you again, I'll spew. It's a job for him, if he gets sacked tomorrow and rehired next season at another club then he'll hurt for them. If a player gets delisted or traded then they don't care what happens to Carlton, but we the true supporters do. I've paid my membership every year since the salary cap scandal, I pay for an interstate membership, which is basically a donation as I don't go to games being in Launceston apart from once a season and this year is was against the Bulldogs so an away game.

I don't get to be sacked or traded, I hurt for every game that is lost, I hurt when I see zero effort by some players, I hurt when at the start of the season we are promised an improved side and get the same rubbish year in and year out. I hurt when I see my sons getting teased on the play ground for supporting Carlton.

I want Bolton to get angry at the players, tell the Carlton faithful that it was not good enough and assure that players like Plowman, Marchbank are on notice or better still dropped, cause the Collingwood forwards will treat then like rag dolls next week.

Like x100

Jones cleared of any structural damage and should be released from hospital tonight according to Fox team at the crows game

Jones cleared of any structural damage and should be released from hospital tonight according to Fox team at the crows game

That is good news. Glad he is okay. Was very worried.

That is good news. Glad he is okay. Was very worried.

X2. Good news on that front at least.

That is good news. Glad he is okay. Was very worried.

x3....The man is a brave unit and as Bolton alluded to does play for the jumper...

Yes!!!
Something has to be done to address our midfield set ups, efforts and player development.
If we can’t/won’t drop Bolton then we have to look at Barker, Bruce and Stanton as the architects of our midfield. We can’t expect change to come by doing the same thing.
I never thought I’d say this but right now I’d rather see Goddard working with our midfield. At least he might instill some aggression into our players. Maybe a Goddard-Diesel pairing for the rest of the season.

From your keyboard to our Board. People with a fair-dinkum, real McCoy, acid burning fire in the guts needs be instilling same in our blokes. Our list is playing like the senior coach comes across... nice.

Jones cleared of any structural damage and should be released from hospital tonight according to Fox team at the crows game

Fantastic! The more I see th replay, the more I reckon that North bloke has a case to answer.

Only 1 bloke had eyes on the ball.

From your keyboard to our Board. People with a fair-dinkum, real McCoy, acid burning fire in the guts needs be instilling same in our blokes. Our list is playing like the senior coach comes across... nice.

Nail, hammer, hit thingy :-\

Fantastic! The more I see th replay, the more I reckon that North bloke has a case to answer.

Only 1 bloke had eyes on the ball.

They are not showing any other angles unfortunately.
If it was a Carlton player then....

I tried, I really tried, Murph. I tried to bring forth the positives of your time at the good ship PP. You're such a good bloke... but... there is something very wrong between your lugholes. You were a liability today (and not much better for the past few weeks... RUOK?) and looked lost. You're a leader and when the leader fails in performance and in leadership, the flock becomes confused, disenchanted and wanders.

(Can you hear that too? Is that SpannerMan yelling something in the background... sounds like... I FCKN TOLD YOU! Gulp).

Our list is playing like the senior coach comes across... nice.

Well said.

We need our players to find their inner mongrel. And quickly.

Maybe a pep talk from David Rhys-Jones before every training session is in order.

I have nausea ... and vertigo.

The nausea is from the Jones injury.  I hate that part of the game.

The vertigo is from standing here on this ledge waiting for PaulP to talk me down.  Hurry up PP, it's cold out here.

I'm very honoured that you thought of me in your hour of need. Let me make this as simple as I can. Wait for the process to finish before you get carried away and make rash decisions. Otherwise that ledge will be more worn than the middle of the Spanish steps. 

I tried, I really tried, Murph. I tried to bring forth the positives of your time at the good ship PP. You're such a good bloke... but... there is something very wrong between your lugholes. You were a liability today (and not much better for the past few weeks... RUOK?) and looked lost. You're a leader and when the leader fails in performance and in leadership, the flock becomes confused, disenchanted and wanders.

(Can you hear that too? Is that SpannerMan yelling something in the background... sounds like... I FCKN TOLD YOU! Gulp).

Don’t shoot bambi
No wonder Bolton loves him, they could be twins

I'm very honoured that you thought of me in your hour of need. Let me make this as simple as I can. Wait for the process to finish before you get carried away and make rash decisions. Otherwise that ledge will be worn than the middle of the Spanish steps.

The man needs talking down now... not to be reassessed at the end of the 2025 season? Affirmative action, now... he's in trouble now... do, don't think, do... ;D

Fantastic! The more I see th replay, the more I reckon that North bloke has a case to answer.

Only 1 bloke had eyes on the ball.

Don’t let the slam tackle on Williamson in the final term go gentle into that good night either.

No free of course, but he stayed down and went off I think.

Don’t shoot bambi
No wonder Bolton loves him, they could be twins

 :)) :)) Now I understand why BB pumps up Murphs tires at every chance he gets.

I'm very honoured that you thought of me in your hour of need. Let me make this as simple as I can. Wait for the process to finish before you get carried away and make rash decisions. Otherwise that ledge will be more worn than the middle of the Spanish steps.

The process should be progressing. Even you must admit he is no good now.

Given the young talent we have find we a reason why we should not have beaten Swans, now on the bottom, GC, Hawthorn and North. That should be 5-2 or 4-3. We are 1-6 and just got thumped by 10 goals by the bottom side, and that's after we kicked the last 4 goals in junk time.

As I said 2 weeks ago, the Dogs game was now the gold standard. It's shows what we can do and you expect that most weeks. The fact it lasted all of 6 qtrs says something about the coach's ability to get anything close to the best out of this side. Time to go and not waste anymore time. It'll take another coach a year as it is to get Bolton's rubbish out of the system and get used to a proper game plan.

I'm very honoured that you thought of me in your hour of need. Let me make this as simple as I can. Wait for the process to finish before you get carried away and make rash decisions. Otherwise that ledge will be more worn than the middle of the Spanish steps.

The process is finished.
It’s dead, listless, lifeless.
We’ve had four years of the love fest.

It will be hard enough to change these kids now, let alone in 18 months time.
If we don’t act we will have another group of soft, easy to play against, footballers for another 10 years.

Very disappointing, North came to play and knocked us off our game and we never recovered.
It's the worst game we've played for the season but there's no reason why we can't butter up next week, if we fall away from here Bolton is probably done but we should all be hoping that doesn't happen.
It isn't the end of the world is what I'm trying to say.

We were as bad today as we where during the Malthouse dark days.

No effort, no system disgusting skills and I’ve said this before several times the dumbest group of footballers ever assembled.

I wish it was as simple as sacking Murphy’s or Bolton’s can’t coach. 

In all the players we have turned over in this rebuild, how many do we have that have ‘very good’ foot skills. I doubt we have 5 on our whole list. Have no speed thru the middle of the ground and the forwards have no f**king clue how to lead or make space. Was like watching under 12 today at the ground with the way our so called key young stars in Harry and Charlie play. They refuse to separate and simply refuse to work hard by running hard to get a one on one contest so they can use the one main skill they have. Charlie is over rated imo - another one who’s kicking skills are well below par.

And our midfield is just too slow and too one paced. Cripps (and I know his a star) Dow and SPS are one pacers that when we have the ball you don’t notice it but just can’t apply any sort of pressure when the opposition get out.

Gutted with this performance. Really making me wonder how many more seasons I can cope with this.

The process is finished.
It’s dead, listless, lifeless.
We’ve had four years of the love fest.

It will be hard enough to change these kids now, let alone in 18 months time.
If we don’t act we will have another group of soft, easy to play against, footballers for another 10 years.

And that, sadly, is the reality. We can no longer live in hope.

We were as bad today as we where during the Malthouse dark days.

No effort, no system disgusting skills and I’ve said this before several times the dumbest group of footballers ever assembled.

I wish it was as simple as sacking Murphy’s or Bolton’s can’t coach. 

In all the players we have turned over in this rebuild, how many do we have that have ‘very good’ foot skills. I doubt we have 5 on our whole list. Have no speed thru the middle of the ground and the forwards have no f**king clue how to lead or make space. Was like watching under 12 today at the ground with the way our so called key young stars in Harry and Charlie play. They refuse to separate and simply refuse to work hard by running hard to get a one on one contest so they can use the one main skill they have. Charlie is over rated imo - another one who’s kicking skills are well below par.

And our midfield is just too slow and too one paced. Cripps (and I know his a star) Dow and SPS are one pacers that when we have the ball you don’t notice it but just can’t apply any sort of pressure when the opposition get out.

Gutted with this performance. Really making me wonder how many more seasons I can cope with this.

For all his speed, Dow’s lack of commitment to chasing is criminal.

He should hunting opposition players like Cyril Rioli, instead he jogs along side them and is content with making minimal pressure.

O’Brien is worse. He has been schooled in the Marc Murphy school of tackling pressure. He plays like his aim is to just apply little pressure to a kicker. He hardly ever goes in for the tackle.

It was a bit of a perfect storn today.

- We had got to a place where we may have thought that natural progression was doing its thing and we just had to turn up (against a bottom side) and we'd go ok. Over confident, and/or not respected our opponent.
- We had lost 4 solid contributors who we could never replace.
- North had gained one key player, Higgins, who was missing the week before.
- We couldn't kick it through the big sticks to save ourselves
- We copped further injuries on the day - Jones, obviously, but Daisy went down early and had to sit on the bench for a concussion check as well (20 mins gone)
- Cripps has been BOG or close enough to it, every game this year. Even though he still topped our fantasy numbers, he was well down for the first time this year.

In a way, its good when all that happens all at once because its less likely to occur again. Get the 'bad week' out of the way and reset back to where you were prior. Hopefully no new injuries and get a few players back etc.

They are not showing any other angles unfortunately.
If it was a Carlton player then....

Comprehensively reported in AFL media as an ACCIDENTAL clash.
Propaganda  >:(

 ::Zurhaar has form.

Don’t shoot bambi
No wonder Bolton loves him, they could be twins

If that's the case, maybe we have triplets. 
C. P.  ;)

My edit.
Or maybe quadruplets.
LOB

Bolton stuffed this up at the selection table.

There is no reason why setterfield shouldn't have played this one.

There's no reason o'brien should still be playing at afl level.  Polson was sick and didn't play VFL, but he brings hardness with his pressure and sub standard possessions with stuff all impact as opposed to o'Brien who gives us outside run and no impact.

His goal was well taken though.

Bolton stuffed this up at the selection table.

There is no reason why setterfield shouldn't have played this one.

There's no reason o'brien should still be playing at afl level.  Polson was sick and didn't play VFL, but he brings hardness with his pressure and sub standard possessions with stuff all impact as opposed to o'Brien who gives us outside run and no impact.

His goal was well taken though.

Didnt Lachie play on the wing on Dumont? who had the lazy 38 possies for the day....LOB did have the one tackle so he caught up with him once perhaps, that could be deemed as blurred progress under the Bolton mantra.

Didnt Lachie play on the wing on Dumont? who had the lazy 38 possies for the day....LOB did have the one tackle so he caught up with him once perhaps, that could be deemed as blurred progress under the Bolton mantra.

Murphy and LOB swapped wings quite often today

Watched the press conference...WTF was Bolton taking about,  came across as gibberish.   Still attempting to decipher what he said but sounded shocked at the failure to rock up ready to play.

Stocker was ok and I would be keeping him in the team, bad day to play your first game and the pressure/physicality was at a high level from North.

Cheers for that EB

Time for Wallsy to take a training session

Scarecrow

Little point in going over the game, 7 pages of comments have covered most of the problems.

With our outs we were always going to struggle, but the disorganised nature of our midfield and backline were as bad as they have been for years.  Thomas, Walsh and weitering did pretty well. Cripps battled hard but did feel he lacked a willingness to smash his opponent. Our utterly dismal senior leadership was on full display. Again.

Left at half time as the young fella was getting miserable. The key lesson, as he is a budding under 8 is to resolve to kick off both feet. We saw Walsh, charlie and McKay today wheel around and get caught out on the wrong foot, delaying and then scrubbing the kick. Its shameful how few players can kick off both and an indictment on so much junior coaching.

So a half hour kick to kick in the drive way doing 8 metre kicks on the wrong foot salved things.

Good to hear Jones is going to be OK

Putrid today, very hard to find a positive. We were smashed in every aspect of the game by a side that will finish bottom 4. What irked me most was our inability to tackle. Too many skinny kids with paper arms. Desperately need some senior bodies

I just watched Boltons pressure and Weiters interview. I am even more disgusted after listening to those, WTF does "not mentally prepared mean"? I'd be embarrassed to put that up as an reason. You are a professional football team engaged to play 23 games per year. FARKEN COMING MENTALLY PREPARED IS FARKEN FUNDAMENTAL. IF YOU CANT COME MENTALLY PREPARED, FARK OFF, AND THATS WHETHER YOU ARE CRIPPS OR STOCKER.
I will be writing to the club to voice my disgust at such a lame and pathetic reason to be made public. That is just unforgivable to me, you have just told the football world you are mentally weak. What imbecile does that?

How Murphy gets a game is beyond any rational explanation.

Furthermore, I want Marc investigated if he has been reporting himself as a football player on his tax return. Nothing could be further from the truth and the Tax Office needs to be aware of this gross misrepresentation in the occupation field of his tax form.

Where's PaulP? Surely I'm missing something, so set me straight dude. I'm  guessing it has something to do with the wind blowing in the wrong direction on his way into the stadium today that mucked up his hair, therefore being such a devastating event before the game, Marc can't possibly be expected to play at anything remotely resembling an elite level.

I suppose, elite is bit of a stretch, how about "a" level. We need to crawl before we can walk...

The guy is officially a joke...

That loss today hurt more than any in my memory. This club s trademark - finding ways to inflict more pain on their supporters than any other.

How Murphy gets a game is beyond any rational explanation.

Furthermore, I want Marc investigated if he has been reporting himself as a football player on his tax return. Nothing could be further from the truth and the Tax Office needs to be aware of this gross misrepresentation in the occupation field of his tax form.

Where's PaulP? Surely I'm missing something, so set me straight dude. I'm  guessing it has something to do with the wind blowing in the wrong direction on his way into the stadium today that mucked up his hair, therefore being such a devastating event before the game, Marc can't possibly be expected to play at anything remotely resembling an elite level.

I suppose, elite is bit of a stretch, how about "a" level. We need to crawl before we can walk...

The guy is officially a joke...

Very impressive "post match" report. Just like the other 50 "post match" reports you've posted over the years. It's just cut and paste really - maybe someone should investigate you for postal fraud. No interest in the game whatsoever. Just another excuse to troll Murphy.

It's a shame that the contents of your posts are fictitious, toxic swill, because, at least by footy forum standards, you writing ability is really quite exceptional.

That loss today hurt more than any in my memory. This club s trademark - finding ways to inflict more pain on their supporters than any other.

I don't think today's performance is reflective of our general improvement (as slow as that seems). Right now though it's hard to argue with that jeza. It's a painful result that's for sure.

Interesting to see what the club does next.

I just watched Boltons pressure and Weiters interview. I am even more disgusted after listening to those, WTF does "not mentally prepared mean"? I'd be embarrassed to put that up as an reason. You are a professional football team engaged to play 23 games per year. FARKEN COMING MENTALLY PREPARED IS FARKEN FUNDAMENTAL. IF YOU CANT COME MENTALLY PREPARED, FARK OFF, AND THATS WHETHER YOU ARE CRIPPS OR STOCKER.
I will be writing to the club to voice my disgust at such a lame and pathetic reason to be made public. That is just unforgivable to me, you have just told the football world you are mentally weak. What imbecile does that?

It was either a stuff up, or a way of bringing it front and centre - the media will be onto us about being not switched on, mentally weak, so the players and coaches will have it shoved in their noses all week. Ensures that it won't happen again in the near future.

It could work.

Very impressive "post match" report. Just like the other 50 "post match" reports you've posted over the years. It's just cut and paste really - maybe someone should investigate you for postal fraud. No interest in the game whatsoever. Just another excuse to troll Murphy.

It's a shame that the contents of your posts are fictitious, toxic swill, because, at least by footy forum standards, you writing ability is really quite exceptional.

Thanks Biff. Murph was great wasn't he? I'd  live for you to outline his highlights for all and sundry on CSC for me.

Love your insightful contributions. It's always a pleasure!

Thanks Biff. Murph was great wasn't he? I'd  live for you to outline his highlights for all and sundry on CSC for me.

Love your insightful contributions. It's always a pleasure!

Anytime pagliaccio.

Anytime pagliaccio.

Oh, he's gone all Italian on me! Nice work Paul! A more scything rebuttal you will not read. I feel like a clown for not picking it up earlier, but Paul is multi-lingual people. Good for you Paul...

What a joke some of these posts are.

We've a KPP who played today for 1 kick and 2 handballs from 89% game time! We were under siege in D50, and there are small/medium defenders out there who played 75% of game time and more and hardly touched it!

Also, from the club, I don't want to hear from Weitering after a game in which our team like that. If Cripps is captain he better be fronting the media side-by-side with the coach, not trying to placate us with one of our better players on the day rolling out the MC excuses.

Paddy Dow is officially having second year blues.

I was seeing if he would come good before calling it, but hes been pretty bad.  Time for a spell in the vfl.

What a joke some of these posts are.

Why do you say that LP?

Why can't people be utterly dismayed and frustrated with a performance like today? What are people trying to prove with this "chin up" nothing to see here, old English brovado approach?

The effort and performance sucked. Call it what it is, don't try and gloss over it and pretend it didn't happen. FFS, it's been going on for two decades, the time for pretending is well and truly over.

Paddy Dow is officially having second year blues.

I was seeing if he would come good before calling it, but hes been pretty bad.  Time for a spell in the vfl.

So what's Marc Murphy having? Shouldn't the same be applied to him? Or is he above criticism? Biff seems to think so...

Did we really believe that Dow , O’Brien ,Walsh ,  Stocker, SPS and Fisher all small framed skinny inexperienced youngsters were going to impact players like Ziebell, Cunningham, Higgins and co.
I wasn’t expecting miracles today, as we had  critical personal injured and team balance was disrupted not an excuse but a reality.
We’ll be more competitive against the Pies, should Kreuzer, McGovern, Setterfield, perhaps Kennedy get a game.

Did we really believe that Dow , O’Brien ,Walsh ,  Stocker, SPS and Fisher all small framed skinny inexperienced youngsters were going to impact players like Ziebell, Cunningham, Higgins and co.
I wasn’t expecting miracles today, as we had  critical personal injured and team balance was disrupted not an excuse but a reality.
We’ll be more competitive against the Pies, should Kreuzer, McGovern, Setterfield, perhaps Kennedy get a game.

Sure enough we can be far more competitive with the likes of the players you suggest. They will be needed in desperation. The Pies are a far better side to who we played today, and will be ready mentally for a fight back from us. I just hope we don’t suffer more injuries trying to arm wrestle a side that is so well drilled at getting the job done. They couldn’t stomach a loss to our current side. Bucks would explode. Fat mouth Eddie would do likewise.

Oh, he's gone all Italian on me! Nice work Paul! A more scything rebuttal you will not read. I feel like a clown for not picking it up earlier, but Paul is multi-lingual people. Good for you Paul...

Relevant, focussed and on point, as always.

I just watched Boltons pressure and Weiters interview. I am even more disgusted after listening to those, WTF does "not mentally prepared mean"? I'd be embarrassed to put that up as an reason. You are a professional football team engaged to play 23 games per year. FARKEN COMING MENTALLY PREPARED IS FARKEN FUNDAMENTAL. IF YOU CANT COME MENTALLY PREPARED, FARK OFF, AND THATS WHETHER YOU ARE CRIPPS OR STOCKER.
I will be writing to the club to voice my disgust at such a lame and pathetic reason to be made public. That is just unforgivable to me, you have just told the football world you are mentally weak. What imbecile does that?

See the Hawks 1st half last week, in particular the 1st q. It happens, even to super coaches and premiership players, let alone our blokes.

See the Hawks 1st half last week, in particular the 1st q. It happens, even to super coaches and premiership players, let alone our blokes.

Yet the Hawks regrouped and won the game - therein lies the difference!!

We were playing a very ordinary team yesterday don't forget....

Yet the Hawks regrouped and won the game - therein lies the difference!!

We were playing a very ordinary team yesterday don't forget....

Yes I know that. The Hawks won :
a. because of the clock,
b. their senior players are experienced and have a winning culture
c. because young teams like ours don't have what it takes to turn the momentum when it's not going our way.

Yesterday sucked, make no bones about it. Hopefully the boys will learn. We're not at the Hawks level where we can arrest a bad start.

The clock?  That's desperate wallpaper over allowing them back into the game in the first place

The clock?  That's desperate wallpaper over allowing them back into the game in the first place

Well, either we let them back in, or else they worked themselves back into it through experience, and winning habits. I'm not interested in quibbling. You will see things as you wish.

You can bet on that   :)

So what's Marc Murphy having? Shouldn't the same be applied to him? Or is he above criticism? Biff seems to think so...

Murphy's stats yesterday were first year player level.  However we dont have a better player knocking on the door to come in and are missing experienced heads who draw an opponent.  I'd rather he get hammered in tackles than Sam Walsh so he's still more useful to us than Liam stocker and lachie o brien.

We are already missing experienced heads.  Taking another one out probably wont help us much.

Yes I know that. The Hawks won :
a. because of the clock,
b. their senior players are experienced and have a winning culture
c. because young teams like ours don't have what it takes to turn the momentum when it's not going our way.

Yesterday sucked, make no bones about it. Hopefully the boys will learn. We're not at the Hawks level where we can arrest a bad start.

That's exactly the scenario.

The crew on Manrgrook predicted a 60pt defeat based on our outs and our inexperienced list combined with the motivation Norp were receiving off the media and Scott's ball on the line. Most Carlton fans scoffed at their prediction, some even sledged them, so I suspect they are owed an apology! Yet fans will buy the Monday morning media shock, as that has them feel at ease when they throw the baby out with the bath water.

We lost how many hundred games of experience after last weekend, and we brought in how many games of experience?

The bigger worry is did the club see this coming, if they did then they haven't played their media cards very well this week, if they didn't they are basically incompetent despite the realisation they have no other choice? Especially given the list management decision they have made in the recent past?

Are there any positives we can take from this game?

Despite being besieged Weitering kept it together to the best of his ability, but we do not want him BoG in such circumstances but he probably was.

But again my biggest worry remains, I do not think being battered week in week out is necessarily good for the kids. In small does adversity might be OK, without relief it's more likely debilitating. I've not seen Cripps look so disinterested before, but yesterday he looked like a guy who didn't want to be there, a player going through the motions. Daisy looked old, sMurph looked old and Meat was the old meat.

I gather yesterday ends any thoughts that Phillips and Levi are viable AFL 1st ruckmen!

That's exactly the scenario.

The crew Manrgrook predicted a 60pt defeat based on our outs and our inexperienced list combined with the motivation Norp were receiving off the media and Scott's ball on the line. Most Carlton fans scoffed at their prediction, some even sledged them, so I suspect they are owed an apology!

We lost how many hundred games of experience after last weekend, and we brought in how many games of experience?

The bigger worry is did the club see this coming, if they did then they haven't played their media cards very well this week, if they didn't they are basically incompetent despite the realisation they have no other choice? Especially given the list management decision they have made in the recent past?

Are there any positives we can take from this game?

Despite being besieged Weitering kept it together to the best of his ability, but we do not want him BoG in such circumstances but he probably was.

But again my biggest worry remains, I do not think being battered week in week out is necessarily good for the kids. In small does adversity might be OK, without relief it's more likely debilitating. I've not seen Cripps look so disinterested before, but yesterday he looked like a guy who didn't want to be there, a player going through the motions. Daisy looked old, sMurph looked old and Meat was the old meat.

I gather yesterday ends any thoughts that Phillips and Levi are viable AFL 1st ruckmen!

What did you want the club to say??

They can't put the queue in the rack.  The selection of stocker was a tell.

If we are debuting players while o'Brien is getting a game we wont win many.

Murphy's stats yesterday were first year player level.  However we dont have a better player knocking on the door to come in and are missing experienced heads who draw an opponent.  I'd rather he get hammered in tackles than Sam Walsh so he's still more useful to us than Liam stocker and lachie o brien.

We are already missing experienced heads.  Taking another one out probably wont help us much.

Kennedy and Setterfield.

What did you want the club to say??

They can't put the queue in the rack.  The selection of stocker was a tell.

If we are debuting players while o'Brien is getting a game we wont win many.

They should have just said the truth, after so many outs it was going to be a tough week.

I knew it, you knew it, we all had slim hope and the truth won't change that. But the reality of the outs was so far from the dream sold to us that many just wanted to believe in a fairytale.

Would the players have been less prepared if the week's pre-game speak was full of adversity rather than expectation? We let the media and Norp install us as favourites and I fear some of the kids actually believed it! Yesterday they played like a team that had got ahead of themselves, and based on what an honourable loss against a senior team on the slide?

Kennedy and Setterfield.

Out of stocker, o brien, Kennedy, setterfield and Marc Murphy, you would name Murphy first even with yesterdays stats.

Setterfield and Kennedy would have helped yesterday but only as alternatives to players that gave us nothing.

Even paddy dow and sps were crap yesterday.

They should have just said the truth, after so many outs it was going to be a tough week.

I knew it, you knew it, we all had slim hope and the truth won't change that. But the reality of the outs was so far from dream sold many just wanted to believe in a fairy tale.

Would the players have been less prepared if the weeks pre-game speak was full of adversity rather than expectation? We let the media and Norp install us as favourites and I fear some of the kids believed it!

No.  I think you're confusing public perception with reality.  Our team played like they didn't believe they could win yesterday, and they switched off after our first goal conceded.

Out of stocker, o brien, Kennedy, setterfield and Marc Murphy, you would name Murphy first even with yesterdays stats.

Setterfield and Kennedy would have helped yesterday but only as alternatives to players that gave us nothing.

Even paddy dow and sps were crap yesterday.

No.  I think you're confusing public perception with reality.  Our team played like they didn't believe they could win yesterday, and they switched off after our first goal conceded.

The more we keep losing the less will be our belief in our ability to win, especially with the present dearth of on field leadership. Lack of solid mature leadership could be the undoing of this rebuild imo. The club has got to fix it asap.

No.  I think you're confusing public perception with reality.  Our team played like they didn't believe they could win yesterday, and they switched off after our first goal conceded.

I've offered a consistent message this week, from the day after the last loss and the beginnings of the media pursuit of The Pudding Face Twin, it was clear the tone was set for this game. FFS, Duck even came out and pumped up our tyres, and people took it for granted!

Any half-ar5ed drunken dog and his mates could see this coming, yet because of our list management decisions our MC had no choice because of the way the list is constructed. This is reality, the real price they have to pay for decisions taken long ago!

You could even add to this the club being bullied into changing the defensive game plan to get back in the media's good books, because there was no other reason to do so from a football perspective.

So there should be no point acting shocked about this result, it was always going to happen, and I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often! I think we've just been lucky more AFL hardened opponents haven't been in such desperate circumstances against us!

The more we keep losing the less will be our belief in our ability to win, especially with the present dearth of on field leadership. Lack of solid mature leadership could be the undoing of this rebuild imo. The club has got to fix it asap.

x1000, it's reality isn't it Cookie2, the mental damage can be just as debilitating as a physical injury!

Out of stocker, o brien, Kennedy, setterfield and Marc Murphy, you would name Murphy first even with yesterdays stats.

Setterfield and Kennedy would have helped yesterday but only as alternatives to players that gave us nothing.

Even paddy dow and sps were crap yesterday.

Paddy Dow and SPS are about 75kg's ringing wet.
We got smashed at the contest because Kruezer was out and Cripps was one out.
He was blocked and shepherded out of it.

Dow and SPS are hardly the types to fix that and Murphy is more likely to run the other way looking for an easy kick.

We needed size in the midfield, you need to win contested footy, and Cripps one out, all day every day, is a stupid plan

Paddy Dow and SPS are about 75kg's ringing wet.
We got smashed at the contest because Kruezer was out and Cripps was one out.
He was blocked and shepherded out of it.

Dow and SPS are hardly the types to fix that and Murphy is more likely to run the other way looking for an easy kick.

We needed size in the midfield, you need to win contested footy, and Cripps one out, all day every day, is a stupid plan

Yes but removing Murphy is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

The selection policy has been ordinary this season starting with Alex fasolo in round 1.

Should never have played ahead of polson or Jack silvagni.

Bolton has made a few decisions of similar nature this season. 

All of us stated that o brien shouldn't be playing.  Dow has been just going all season.  Sps has had waivering form, o brien has been a non event.  All 3 are learning.

No point lining up Marc Murphy when we have plenty who aren't even giving us that.

Kennedy didn't deserve a game on his last week form.  He was crap after quarter time in similar fashion to yesterday.  Setterfield got suspended for a tackle so I dont know why he had to come back the long way.

See the Hawks 1st half last week, in particular the 1st q. It happens, even to super coaches and premiership players, let alone our blokes.

But we do it every week, regardless, and wake up too late. It's habitual and ingrained, and it aint about youth... youth is a part of it, but this is culture and it's what they're learning - 'losing is okay, because we've won eight quarters this year, so we're really in the eight'. ::)

I suspect that in his post match  Weitering was being very honest and forthright.
He'll probably be told not to be so frank in future.

I suspect that in his post match  Weitering was being very honest and forthright.
He'll probably be told not to be so frank in future.

Out of all the rot it’s so great to see Jacob coming into himself, I feel confident anytime he has the ball and I like his attitude alot.

Out of all the rot it’s so great to see Jacob coming into himself, I feel confident anytime he has the ball and I like his attitude alot.

I don't feel confident when he tries to evade tackles, need's to dish it off with a handball faster.

Kicking is very nice and a very good mark.

I suspect that in his post match  Weitering was being very honest and forthright.
He'll probably be told not to be so frank in future.

Refreshing and on the mark... and I bet you're right re being asked to refrain from such candor.

I suspect that in his post match  Weitering was being very honest and forthright.
He'll probably be told not to be so frank in future.

And possibly not entirely accidental?

Marngrook footy show - most of the panel tipped kangaroos by 60pts :-[
Hope the boys see they have egg on their face. The little bald dh dismissed the Blues as if we were a non existent  (From LoveNavy)

They knew something we didn't know :o
(sorry LP I just read your post on the previous page)

Anyone have a recent update on Jones?

Is he out of hospital? Seemingly, no major damage?

I don't feel confident when he tries to evade tackles, need's to dish it off with a handball faster.

He's not an idiot, you don't handball to ruckmen and stationary team-mates which he was surrounded by yesterday, so he has to try and do something.

Kicking is very nice and a very good mark.

He should be our captain, no more mids as the leader, from inside the heat they just cannot see the forest for the trees!

Anyone have a recent update on Jones?

Is he out of hospital? Seemingly, no major damage?

Released from hospital last night, no structural damage to head or neck, so it's just the matter of the concussion and how long that takes to get better

They are phasing Murphy out of the side.   I ask anyone that watched with a little common sense (That excludes you Spanner) how many centre bounce stoppages Murphy attended.    They are putting time into SPS, Dow, Cunningham etc and it will have short term pain.   Our midfield is way too inexperienced and undersized

Which is why both Setterfield and Kennedy should be in the midfield rotations

Undersized,  while Setterfield and Kennedy run around in the twos?

I think it was an application and want issue on Sunday,  nothing to do with size.   Size of the fight in the dog,  not the dog in the fight thing.

We got mugged anyway,  FFS,  they should have been frothing and ready to go,  not half asleep when they rolled out.   What did they expect,  a bruise free encounter with a half arsed practice match side?

Undersized,  while Setterfield and Kennedy run around in the twos?

I think it was an application and want issue on Sunday,  nothing to do with size.   Size of the fight in the dog,  not the dog in the fight thing.

We got mugged anyway,  FFS,  they should have been frothing and ready to go,  not half asleep when they rolled out.   What did they expect,  a bruise free encounter with a half arsed practice match side?

Agree - any team containing the likes of Ziebell and Cunnington should be enough to switch on even the slowest in mental capacity.

Which is why both Setterfield and Kennedy should be in the midfield rotations

If you have too many of them in the team you lose too much outside run, as good as they can be on the inside it's not everything a team needs.

People bag sMurph, but several times at the weekend he was the only one left chasing the Norp SFs into the goal-square, nary a Carlton kid could be seen! Between sMurph, Plowman and Daisy, although they didn't look like catching the Norp SFs, they never gave up like SPS, Dow, O'Brien and Stocker gave up!

I also thought Gibbons tried very hard, but his limitations were sorely exposed.

Half way through the second quarter I asked my mate who defends Murphy to watch  him and don't take your eyes off him.

He literally jogged from 50 to 50 on our wing whether the ball was that side or not and he had no intention or desire to do anything else.

He is weak as piss and needs to retire now. How tough was he when he pushed Zeibell in the back over the boundary? Weak act from a weak player.

How tough was he when he pushed Zeibell in the back over the boundary? Weak act from a weak player.

Ziebell dived, there was so little in it the commentators nominated him for an Oscar!

Ziebell dived, there was so little in it the commentators nominated him for an Oscar!

Yes, by why do it at all?? We had a throw-in inside our 50metre zone. Just p!$$ poor.

People bag sMurph, but several times at the weekend he was the only one left chasing the Norp SFs into the goal-square, nary a Carlton kid could be seen!

He simply does NOT chase.
He jogs along trying to look interested.
He jogs off the contest continuously trying to look like he cares, but not ever getting close enough to impact it.

He gets enough outside ball to look like he is important but actually does SFA.

Ziebell dived, there was so little in it the commentators nominated him for an Oscar!

It was a blatant push in the back for no reason. Free kick very day of the week.

Stupid play from a veteran and it wasn't like he intimidated anyone. Jack wasn't exactly looking over his shoulder worried about where Marc Murphy is.

Yes, by why do it at all?? We had a throw-in inside our 50metre zone. Just p!$$ poor.

Why pay it, the hand in the back and dive happens dozens of times a game and is neither rewarded or penalised?

He simply does NOT chase.
He jogs along trying to look interested.
He jogs off the contest continuously trying to look like he cares, but not ever getting close enough to impact it.

He gets enough outside ball to look like he is important but actually does SFA.

Andy Maher had a crack at Murphy on the radio. "Not what you want to see from a leader" he said.

Andy Maher had a crack at Murphy on the radio. "Not what you want to see from a leader" he said.

You know I won't buy into a debate about Maher. As much as he loves Carlton and we love him for that, he knows exactly that the haters sign his paycheck, and he openly buys into those politics far more willingly than the reticence he shows when it's time to defend the Navy Blue!

At least Pang bites back, Maher well what can I say he's a Benny Hill sidekick!

Sticking Fat means something, and not doing so has a real world effect.

btw., I do not expect Maher to change, he won't he's a nice bloke, but he works in a industry surrounded by Clark Kents!

He simply does NOT chase.
He jogs along trying to look interested.
He jogs off the contest continuously trying to look like he cares, but not ever getting close enough to impact it.

He gets enough outside ball to look like he is important but actually does SFA.

These traits are broader than Murphy though.
We have had many players performing with insufficient intensity that leads to a lack of pressure on the opposition.
It’s a systemic issue that to me suggests we need some form of change in our coaching panel. If not Bolton then others must go.
You can already see the rot setting in with Dow, O’Brien, Cuningham and SPS who all have above average speed but lack the killer instinct to use it to hunt down the opposition ball carrier and hit them with bone crunching tackles.

These traits are broader than Murphy though.
We have had many players performing with insufficient intensity that leads to a lack of pressure on the opposition.
It’s a systemic issue that to me suggests we need some form of change in our coaching panel. If not Bolton then others must go.
You can already see the rot setting in with Dow, O’Brien, Cuningham and SPS who all have above average speed but lack the killer instinct to use it to hunt down the opposition ball carrier and hit them with bone crunching tackles.

But where do you think they learn the behaviour from Barbs?

Senior players are responsible for setting standard like these.
I have seen Murphy do this for years, as did Gibbs.
Then some clowns would say Judd doesn't chase after he just won his 15th contested possession, ala P Cripps.

If you are an outside player, you need to tackle and apply pressure and run hard both ways.

Jogging along a wing and getting a few cheapies every  week doesn't cut it.

But where do you think they learn the behaviour from Barbs?

Senior players are responsible for setting standard like these.
I have seen Murphy do this for years, as did Gibbs.
Then some clowns would say Judd doesn't chase after he just won his 15th contested possession, ala P Cripps.

If you are an outside player, you need to tackle and apply pressure and run hard both ways.

Jogging along a wing and getting a few cheapies every  week doesn't cut it.

Why is it that astute observers on here notice this, but successive coaches do not ? And if coaches do notice it, why has one coach after another let him get away with it ?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-will-respond-against-collingwood-cripps-20190506-p51kh7.html

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-will-respond-against-collingwood-cripps-20190506-p51kh7.html

And...talk is cheap thingy.
Better not be a bruise free training session all week!

Well, everyone has had the chance to rant and rave, but to be frank, this was no big surprise - even the bookies had Norf at $1.45 before the game, so the writing was on the wall.

I am not making excuses, but do the sums

- we had 2 weeks of being up and about and some of the young guys clearly got ahead of themselves.
- we lost 4  experienced players to injury - in particular, with no Newman and Simmo, the back six lost all sense of direction, no Kreuzer stuffed up the centre square, and McGovern's big body was a loss. We do not have enough experience and size in the side to lose that much in one hit.  With the ins, Stocker/Williamson were not ready, Phillips is a bit of a doofus, and Charlie is as cold as an iceberg right at the moment
- Norf were always going to come out breathing fire - and on the back of a good last quarter against Port last week, they had discovered some mojo.
- Brad Scott planned perfectly - he specifically targeted Cripps with Ziebell/Cunnington, and with no other big bodies giving him a chop out, he was blanketed
- He also sat Todd Goldstein on the wings in front of the leads from big Harry so we could never get past the wing easily, which led to a string of horrible turnovers as the wobbly defenders looked for other escape routes

However, just like after the shocker on the Gold Coast, I am predicting a much improved effort this week. 

That is how this season is panning out for all teams - if you stroll onto the ground thinking it's going to be easy, you will get blown away.

No point losing faith now - we have to just re-focus on the next contest.

Well, everyone has had the chance to rant and rave, but to be frank, this was no big surprise - even the bookies had Norf at $1.45 before the game, so the writing was on the wall.

I am not making excuses, but do the sums

- we had 2 weeks of being up and about and some of the young guys clearly got ahead of themselves.
- we lost 4  experienced players to injury - in particular, with no Newman and Simmo, the back six lost all sense of direction, no Kreuzer stuffed up the centre square, and McGovern's big body was a loss. We do not have enough experience and size in the side to lose that much in one hit.  With the ins, Stocker/Williamson were not ready, Phillips is a bit of a doofus, and Charlie is as cold as an iceberg right at the moment
- Norf were always going to come out breathing fire - and on the back of a good last quarter against Port last week, they had discovered some mojo.
- Brad Scott planned perfectly - he specifically targeted Cripps with Ziebell/Cunnington, and with no other big bodies giving him a chop out, he was blanketed
- He also sat Todd Goldstein on the wings in front of the leads from big Harry so we could never get past the wing easily, which led to a string of horrible turnovers as the wobbly defenders looked for other escape routes

However, just like after the shocker on the Gold Coast, I am predicting a much improved effort this week. 

That is how this season is panning out for all teams - if you stroll onto the ground thinking it's going to be easy, you will get blown away.

No point losing faith now - we have to just re-focus on the next contest.

You're only chirpy because Liverpool won  ;)

You're only chirpy because Liverpool won  ;)

That helps - just need Leicester to do the business now.......

But where do you think they learn the behaviour from Barbs?

Senior players are responsible for setting standard like these.
I have seen Murphy do this for years, as did Gibbs.
Then some clowns would say Judd doesn't chase after he just won his 15th contested possession, ala P Cripps.

If you are an outside player, you need to tackle and apply pressure and run hard both ways.

Jogging along a wing and getting a few cheapies every  week doesn't cut it.

I’m not saying Murphy is innocent in this. I’m saying he is the symptom. Our problem is coaching that let him and now the new cohort get away with it.

Well, everyone has had the chance to rant and rave, but to be frank, this was no big surprise - even the bookies had Norf at $1.45 before the game, so the writing was on the wall.

I am not making excuses, but do the sums

- we had 2 weeks of being up and about and some of the young guys clearly got ahead of themselves.
- we lost 4  experienced players to injury - in particular, with no Newman and Simmo, the back six lost all sense of direction, no Kreuzer stuffed up the centre square, and McGovern's big body was a loss. We do not have enough experience and size in the side to lose that much in one hit.  With the ins, Stocker/Williamson were not ready, Phillips is a bit of a doofus, and Charlie is as cold as an iceberg right at the moment
- Norf were always going to come out breathing fire - and on the back of a good last quarter against Port last week, they had discovered some mojo.
- Brad Scott planned perfectly - he specifically targeted Cripps with Ziebell/Cunnington, and with no other big bodies giving him a chop out, he was blanketed
- He also sat Todd Goldstein on the wings in front of the leads from big Harry so we could never get past the wing easily, which led to a string of horrible turnovers as the wobbly defenders looked for other escape routes

However, just like after the shocker on the Gold Coast, I am predicting a much improved effort this week. 

That is how this season is panning out for all teams - if you stroll onto the ground thinking it's going to be easy, you will get blown away.

No point losing faith now - we have to just re-focus on the next contest.

Nothing like someone making sense after a predictable loss ????

My daughter celebrated a significant birthday on Sunday at a winery near Bannockburn (with no mobile reception) and I was blissfully unaware of the scores.  I had intended to watch the replay, regardless of the result, but I think that I’ll give up on that idea ????

Nothing like someone making sense after a predictable loss ????

My daughter celebrated a significant birthday on Sunday at a winery near Bannockburn (with no mobile reception) and I was blissfully unaware of the scores.  I had intended to watch the replay, regardless of the result, but I think that I’ll give up on that idea ????

Not sure how it can be a predictable loss vs the bottom team who have very little in the way of star power and have been woeful all year...we got smashed by 10 goals...didnt read or hear anyone
predict that.Any team can lose to another and no game is a sure thing but 10 goals is another story. You have to have consequences if you are serious about progressing as a club when you lose in the manner we did.
Thats not acceptable after a 4 year rebuild, you have to have standards and a line in the sand.

Not sure how it can be a predictable loss vs the bottom team who have very little in the way of star power and have been woeful all year...we got smashed by 10 goals...didnt read or hear anyone
predict that.Any team can lose to another and no game is a sure thing but 10 goals is another story. You have to have consequences if you are serious about progressing as a club when you lose in the manner we did.
Thats not acceptable after a 4 year rebuild, you have to have standards and a line in the sand.

???? ???? ????

Not sure how it can be a predictable loss vs the bottom team who have very little in the way of star power and have been woeful all year...we got smashed by 10 goals...didnt read or hear anyone
predict that.Any team can lose to another and no game is a sure thing but 10 goals is another story. You have to have consequences if you are serious about progressing as a club when you lose in the manner we did.
Thats not acceptable after a 4 year rebuild, you have to have standards and a line in the sand.

It's a simple equation - let's forgot the last 4 years.

Looking forward - do you think Bolton is best placed to win  a FLAG for the Blues?

It's a simple equation - let's forgot the last 4 years.

Looking forward - do you think Bolton is best placed to win  a FLAG for the Blues?

Not at the minute, he probably has about 4-6 games to change the clubs fortunes around or there will be feelers put out to other potential suitors(if you can find any).
Its a win/loss business at the end of the day and while rebuilds take time what we saw on Sunday was a regression to the bad old days and thats not on.
We cant keep losing and we cannot tolerate large noncompetitive losses, I'm just sick of losing, I really thought we would beat North and to lose like we did
is very disheartening after all the promises and BS we have been fed about green shoots, progression etc.
I think another coach who was more tactically aware and had a better team in the box could provide better results and while I wouldnt sack Bolton in the middle of
a season I would consider replacing him at seasons end if things dont improve greatly.

Post of the Year.

Not sure how it can be a predictable loss vs the bottom team who have very little in the way of star power and have been woeful all year...we got smashed by 10 goals...didnt read or hear anyone
predict that.Any team can lose to another and no game is a sure thing but 10 goals is another story. You have to have consequences if you are serious about progressing as a club when you lose in the manner we did.
Thats not acceptable after a 4 year rebuild, you have to have standards and a line in the sand.

Did you look at the odds before the game?  The bookies were on the money.

What is predictable is that inexperienced teams like ours will both over- and under-perform.  What you can't predict is when either will happen. 

I'll head to the game on Saturday hoping that we will over-perform  :)

Did you look at the odds before the game?  The bookies were on the money.

What is predictable is that inexperienced teams like ours will both over- and under-perform.  What you can't predict is when either will happen. 

I'll head to the game on Saturday hoping that we will over-perform  :)

Did see the odds at one stage..think we were a bit above $2 and the Roos were under $2....doesnt equate to a ten goal smashing....the odds this week do though.

4 wins out of 39 games suggests if you back under-perform you might have your nose in front of the bookies.... ;)
Enjoy the game, maybe keep your money in your wallet this week.. ;)

@EB
I cant argue with what you have posted. I had a rant post ready to go yesterday but pulled the pin on it. It touched on a few of the points you mentioned, the delivery of my post however was alot less sophisticated if you know what I mean. But I would say this, if we went down the track, a replacement would have to tick a few boxes for me.
1. He would need to be able to work with the road map for the list that we have in place now. I would think that disrupting it would set us back years.
2. No first timers, needs to be an established coach who knows how to manage a young group but hit them between the eyes  in the right way when needed. Also needs to be in touch with the modern game and where its headed.
3. Must have premiership experience which means it would need to be one of (in no particular order or preference):
Clarkson
Simpson
Longmire
C Scott
Hardwick
Beveridge
Worsfold
The assumption here is that Bolts cant take us to the promised land, therefore if I was going to move him on, I would want someone that knows the way with the list we have. The thing with the list above is that none are available, which meets Dick Pratt's criteria (which I really like) of "dont get the best available because if they are available, they aren't the best. Get the best in the business". My thoughts are that the best in the business is not someone on trainer wheels. If it is, stay with what you have and build him up, through support and training, to be the man.
Dunno if any of the above makes sense, they are just my thoughts.

@EB
I cant argue with what you have posted. I had a rant post ready to go yesterday but pulled the pin on it. It touched on a few of the points you mentioned, the delivery of my post however was alot less sophisticated if you know what I mean. But I would say this, if we went down the track, a replacement would have to tick a few boxes for me.
1. He would need to be able to work with the road map for the list that we have in place now. I would think that disrupting it would set us back years.
2. No first timers, needs to be an established coach who knows how to manage a young group but hit them between the eyes  in the right way when needed. Also needs to be in touch with the modern game and where its headed.
3. Must have premiership experience which means it would need to be one of (in no particular order or preference):
Clarkson
Simpson
Longmire
C Scott
Hardwick
Beveridge
Worsfold
The assumption here is that Bolts cant take us to the promised land, therefore if I was going to move him on, I would want someone that knows the way with the list we have. The thing with the list above is that none are available, which meets Dick Pratt's criteria (which I really like) of "dont get the best available because if they are available, they aren't the best. Get the best in the business". My thoughts are that the best in the business is not someone on trainer wheels. If it is, stay with what you have and build him up, through support and training, to be the man.
Dunno if any of the above makes sense, they are just my thoughts.

Agree with most of this GTC, however you left out one premiership coach who is available ATM, Paul Roos. I know most people on here hate him, and if you take their view he hates US as well, however he has the runs on the board and could/would take us to the next level. I'm sure if there was immediate improvement, if he became our coach, everyone would stop bitching about our performances and start looking at the our future which is brighter than some of the teams currently above us.

I'm also frustrated/angry/pissed off etc, by this season of near misses and almost wins, and the shellacking that we got on the weekend, however today I am more optimistic than I was on Sunday. I know that in a year or two we will be waving to the teams on the way down as we pass them on the way up.

My wants this year are to see improvement, which there has been, and to stick it to Adelaide and get their draft pick which will be close or about the same as theirs in regards to the Stocker trade. The first one has been ticked off, that second one we will see what happens though the rest of the season.

GO BLUES

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

I think Cripps in his interview gave us the same feeling. Not being mentally ready for a challenge against a side at their worst is poor. Coaches need to be accountable but surely players need to have a good look in the mirror at themselves. They need to be accountable for how they bring intensity to a contest. It is something the playing group need to work on. Are they just earning a pay cheque or are they out there to stand for something?

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be.  Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA          5.3        14.8       19.8       21.12
RICHMOND        1.3         1.4         4.9       10.11

Familiar looking scoreline?  The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag.  Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.  

Nice post tonyo.

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be.  Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA          5.3        14.8       19.8       21.12
RICHMOND        1.3         1.4         4.9       10.11

Familiar looking scoreline?  The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag.  Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

I agree the competition is more even, except for us. We are consistently crap.

Interesting exercise.  Total games experience.


Carlton


B

    Tom Williamson (16), Liam Jones (119), Lachie Plowman (80)

HB

    Marc Murphy (256), Jacob Weitering (63), Dale Thomas (245)

C

    Zac Fisher (41), Patrick Cripps (88), Lochie O'Brien (23)

HF

    Charlie Curnow (51), Jack Silvagni (46), Ed Curnow (150)

F

    Sam Petrevski-Seton (49), Harry McKay (22), Michael Gibbons (7)

Fol

    Andrew Phillips  (39), Liam Stocker (1), David Cuningham (19)

I/C

    Paddy Dow (27), Sam Walsh (7), Caleb Marchbank (40), Levi Casboult (109)


Total Games experience:  1498





North Melbourne

B

    Jamie Macmillan (146), Robbie Tarrant (133), Jasper Pittard (133)

HB

    Marley Williams (106), Scott D. Thompson (228), Shaun Atley (183)

C

    Trent Dumont (67), Shaun Higgins (209), Jared Polec (113)

HF

    Tarryn Thomas (5), Taylor Garner (35), Jack Ziebell (195)

F

    Kayne Turner  (65), Ben Brown (106), Nick Larkey (4)

Fol

    Todd Goldstein (219), Ben Cunnington (194), Jed Anderson (50)

I/C

    Jy Simpkin (41), Sam Wright (135), Mason Wood (44), Cameron Zurhaar (13)

Total Games Experience:  2424 games.

What is remarkable is how experienced their defense and midfield were vs ours.

Interesting post Thryleon, Murphy and Thomas make up just over one third of the games played. North average is 110 games which is the zone you should be in if you are trying to win a premiership.
The other point that needs to be made is that our team has had three interstate trips in the first three rounds and while non-Victorian clubs face this challenge every year, they at least get to play other teams who have had to travel every second week. We have played three Melbourne based sides.
Finally the main point I wish to make is that not turning up to play like Carlton did on Sunday is simply not acceptable. This has been going on at the Club for too long now. Players picked chose when they were going to play for Brittain, the picked and chose for Pagen, they picked and chose for Ratten and they picked and chose for Malthouse. They have been better under Bolton but this was the second time they didn't turn up to play. We need players who when things aren't going well for them they are willing to take the game on and try and change their circumstances. That is a mind set and that is culture, it is not hoping but doing.
A young side having a go for six weeks, not getting a fair reward, running into a mature aged side needing to make a statement was always going to be hard however, if Carlton had stood North up in those first 15 minutes, I believe North would have faded away. Sometimes you just need to be tougher mentally than your opponents.

Reference to Shawny comment earlier about footskills. I made a similar post a few weeks ago after some dreadful turnovers and asked the question, do we have even one bloke on our list with what you would call "elite foot skills"? I think the answer to that is obvious....NONE! I find it staggering that we can identify midfielders and draft them with very high picks while acknowledging that they're not "elite" with their disposal....yet! Dow at pick 3 and O'Brien at pick 10 regularly butcher the footy.

I've also raised this point in posts last year as well and earlier this year and question whether Bolton is the coach to take this young group forward? Clubs like Geelong etc seem to be able to bring young kids into the side and develop them quickly. Would someone like Marchbank or SPS still be floundering in their 3rd and 4th years?

As for Plowman, the guy is a spud with terrible decision making and poor skills by foot on a regular basis. Unfortunately with Newman and Simpson out, he gets a game by default. I doubt Stocker and Williamson would've both played had one of Simpson and Newman been available.

No disrespect to North as they came ready to play obviously but they were bottom of the ladder and were copping a lot of heat in the media. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that they were going to come out ferocious in that first quarter and surely a coaching panel would've had our players fired up and ready for it? Yet we didn't fire a shot and the game was over. It was one of those Carlton results where 10 minutes into the first quarter you just knew we were going to get flogged....and all the reasonably good work of the first 6 weeks goes out the window. And over the last few years there's just been far too many of "those" games.

A 100 point demolition from Collingwood this week is on the cards and if that happens, it's hard to see how Bolton can keep his job. It's hard to make a case for him given we've gone backwards in the last two years.

Interesting exercise.  Total games experience.


Carlton


B

    Tom Williamson (16), Liam Jones (119), Lachie Plowman (80)

HB

    Marc Murphy (256), Jacob Weitering (63), Dale Thomas (245)

C

    Zac Fisher (41), Patrick Cripps (88), Lochie O'Brien (23)

HF

    Charlie Curnow (51), Jack Silvagni (46), Ed Curnow (150)

F

    Sam Petrevski-Seton (49), Harry McKay (22), Michael Gibbons (7)

Fol

    Andrew Phillips  (39), Liam Stocker (1), David Cuningham (19)

I/C

    Paddy Dow (27), Sam Walsh (7), Caleb Marchbank (40), Levi Casboult (109)


Total Games experience:  1498





North Melbourne

B

    Jamie Macmillan (146), Robbie Tarrant (133), Jasper Pittard (133)

HB

    Marley Williams (106), Scott D. Thompson (228), Shaun Atley (183)

C

    Trent Dumont (67), Shaun Higgins (209), Jared Polec (113)

HF

    Tarryn Thomas (5), Taylor Garner (35), Jack Ziebell (195)

F

    Kayne Turner  (65), Ben Brown (106), Nick Larkey (4)

Fol

    Todd Goldstein (219), Ben Cunnington (194), Jed Anderson (50)

I/C

    Jy Simpkin (41), Sam Wright (135), Mason Wood (44), Cameron Zurhaar (13)

Total Games Experience:  2424 games.

What is remarkable is how experienced their defense and midfield were vs ours.

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be.  Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA          5.3        14.8       19.8       21.12
RICHMOND        1.3         1.4         4.9       10.11

Familiar looking scoreline?  The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag.  Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

Take your point on how things turn but Tigers were a bit different in that they were not 4 from 38 going into that game....previous years had them 13th, 5th, 8th, 5th, so for three years in a row they played finals before dropping to 13th.....we have been 18th, 16th, 14th, 18th going backwards.

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

Yes and no.  The average North player has done over 5 years of pre seasons and is in their prime.  They should  be spanking a side of kids like we fielded on sunday and they did.

Ours have done less than 3 on average, and we had a lot of inexperience, and blokes who are battling through working out whether or  not we belong.  We have lost a couple simply carrying blokes like O brien who arent even AFL standard yet and have played more games than they should have.  Add Stocker who made his debut, and anyone thinking that we should have won was kidding themselves.

They did exactly what they should be doing every week.

We did the sort of footy that a team like the one we fielded did.

Look, I get it, it wasnt good enough for the level of talent in the team, but we are asking blokes to play 4 or 5 years ahead of their years, and they just arent capable of it.  Your frustration isnt  at the coach, it isnt at the players, its at the footy club for taking a really long strategy and perhaps deluding you into a false sense of where you think we should be at.

The sooner you accept that, the better off you will be. 

Agree with most of this GTC, however you left out one premiership coach who is available ATM, Paul Roos.

I forgot to add one pre requisite, No Paul Roos. I dont like him, he hates Carlton and I dont think his heart is in it. I dont think he would agree to my pre requisite number 1 where he would need to work with our list strategy already in place.

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

Probably yes because when you look at history, successful teams have stuck with their coaches for much longer during their formative years they didnt start from the low base Bolts has. I would rather follow the lead of successful club than repeat our retched recent history. Having said that, I doubt very much the powers that be will say "Bolts is good bloke, lets stick with him". Similarly, they wont say "4 wins from 39 starts, lets sack him". Somewhere in between all that, they will have KPIs set up for him which consider a multitude of factors and its those KPIs that will determine his future.

Probably yes because when you look at history, successful teams have stuck with their coaches for much longer during their formative years they didnt start from the low base Bolts has. I would rather follow the lead of successful club than repeat our retched recent history. Having said that, I doubt very much the powers that be will say "Bolts is good bloke, lets stick with him". Similarly, they wont say "4 wins from 39 starts, lets sack him". Somewhere in between all that, they will have KPIs set up for him which consider a multitude of factors and its those KPIs that will determine his future.

They don't have a 4 from 39 record 4th year in either. Dogs swapped in similar circumstances and won a flag.

If I've got my numbers correct, Bolton has coached us in 76 games and won 17 of them. That's a winning ratio of just over 22%. If we win say another 4 games for the season, that will still be his winning ratio after 4 years at the helm. Will the Board stick with him again in 2020?

If the board look at what we did in our first season under Bolton to decipher if its worth keeping him in 2020, then the board should go.

Its not about where we were. Its about where we are (likely) going.

We took a hit early, we've turned over a full list worth of players in the time Bolton has been at the club. It takes time for that list to work out
1. What is required under Bolton
2. What their teammates can and can't do
3. What is their role within the team.

Now, the first part should come relatively quickly.
The second part is ever changing and will grow more and more the more times they play together.
The third part would be everchanging up to this point given how much the list has been turned over.

eg. Weitering. Defender.....forward(?)....defender....swingman....defender! All that has happened in 4 years. Only now are we starting to see him get settled and belong.
Even an experienced veteran like daisy has been moved to all corners of the ground not only during his time at the club, but during the course of a year, and even during a game. Hard to get settled that way.

The players need to play together.

The players need to show they are proud to wear a Carlton jumper.

Or f... off.

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

We fielded a team which included 14 players with 50 games or less AFL experience.

We were without Kruezer, Simmo, Newman - key players in our team

We lost Jones for half the game

We debuted Stocker and played willow. Stocker was nowhere near AFL ready and Willo had llittle or no match fitness.

Im not happy about the general lack of heart shown by the team and the loss overall, however, those points I've raised are not excuses, but fact and had a significant bearing on the result.

Im not happy about the general lack of heart shown by the team and the loss overall, however, those points I've raised are not excuses, but fact and had a significant bearing on the result.

BluesRock, if most of our kids had taken on the Norp big bodies to show a bit of attitude, we would have been the losers!

We really needed guys like Phillips, Plowman, Marchbank and Casboult to be far more physical and intimidating, they are just too easy to play against. They have size that they fail to utilise week after week!

We fielded a team which included 14 players with 50 games or less AFL experience.

We were without Kruezer, Simmo, Newman - key players in our team

We lost Jones for half the game

We debuted Stocker and played willow. Stocker was nowhere near AFL ready and Willo had llittle or no match fitness.

Im not happy about the general lack of heart shown by the team and the loss overall, however, those points I've raised are not excuses, but fact and had a significant bearing on the result.

Ticker (attitude/endeavour/guts/passion) does not know about nor care about age or experience. Look at Walsh.

If Kreuzer, Simpson and Newman are the difference between a hiding and winning... god help us.

Kangabies also lost a key defender... earlier than we did.

As for Stocker and Williamson... mates played with a poor attitude so you can't judge them at all, that kind of p1ss weak attitude goes through a side like a pandemic flu.

Ticker (attitude/endeavour/guts/passion) does not know about nor care about age or experience. Look at Walsh.

Baggers, Walsh isn't close to the meat hammer some fans are after, and at the moment under license from the MC he is mostly unaccountable for his direct opponent. It's highly unlikely he'll be a Selwood type, or a Judd type, but maybe he's going to be our Paul Kelly!

As much as I love Cripps, I doubt Selwood would standby and let Ziebell and Cunnington intimidate and beat up on the kids like they did, Selwood doesn't give a stuff about Brownlows and being your buddy! I appreciate we must be careful, because if we start too much of that shizen we just do not have the team to back it up!

I've liked fragments of Setterfield, he has some presence around the stoppages.

I'm not going to talk about the others like Phillips and Levi, as they look like a lost cause!

Ticker (attitude/endeavour/guts/passion) does not know about nor care about age or experience. Look at Walsh.

If Kreuzer, Simpson and Newman are the difference between a hiding and winning... god help us.

I never said they are the difference. logically, their absence given our team makeup/profile/age/ has a significant impact.

Kangabies also lost a key defender... earlier than we did.

Kangaroos have a much more experienced line up overall and it was only one key player. incuding jones we had 4, so your point is moot.

As for Stocker and Williamson... mates played with a poor attitude so you can't judge them at all, that kind of p1ss weak attitude goes through a side like a pandemic flu.

Are you saying they played with a poor attitude? Maybe. but my point was neither should have been selected. Fact is the players we have out and the lack of depth we have available to cover them made it necessary to play these guys. They certainly werent in the category of like for like in regards to who we have out injured.