Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #180 – May 06, 2019, 09:47:52 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on May 06, 2019, 08:40:41 pm

Not sure how it can be a predictable loss vs the bottom team who have very little in the way of star power and have been woeful all year...we got smashed by 10 goals...didnt read or hear anyone
predict that.Any team can lose to another and no game is a sure thing but 10 goals is another story. You have to have consequences if you are serious about progressing as a club when you lose in the manner we did.
Thats not acceptable after a 4 year rebuild, you have to have standards and a line in the sand.

Did you look at the odds before the game? The bookies were on the money.

What is predictable is that inexperienced teams like ours will both over- and under-perform. What you can't predict is when either will happen.

I'll head to the game on Saturday hoping that we will over-perform

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #181 – May 06, 2019, 10:05:01 pm

Quote from: DJC on May 06, 2019, 09:47:52 pm

Did you look at the odds before the game? The bookies were on the money.

What is predictable is that inexperienced teams like ours will both over- and under-perform. What you can't predict is when either will happen.

I'll head to the game on Saturday hoping that we will over-perform

Did see the odds at one stage..think we were a bit above $2 and the Roos were under $2....doesnt equate to a ten goal smashing....the odds this week do though.

4 wins out of 39 games suggests if you back under-perform you might have your nose in front of the bookies....

Enjoy the game, maybe keep your money in your wallet this week..

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #182 – May 06, 2019, 10:21:14 pm

@EB
I cant argue with what you have posted. I had a rant post ready to go yesterday but pulled the pin on it. It touched on a few of the points you mentioned, the delivery of my post however was alot less sophisticated if you know what I mean. But I would say this, if we went down the track, a replacement would have to tick a few boxes for me.
1. He would need to be able to work with the road map for the list that we have in place now. I would think that disrupting it would set us back years.
2. No first timers, needs to be an established coach who knows how to manage a young group but hit them between the eyes in the right way when needed. Also needs to be in touch with the modern game and where its headed.
3. Must have premiership experience which means it would need to be one of (in no particular order or preference):
Clarkson
Simpson
Longmire
C Scott
Hardwick
Beveridge
Worsfold
The assumption here is that Bolts cant take us to the promised land, therefore if I was going to move him on, I would want someone that knows the way with the list we have. The thing with the list above is that none are available, which meets Dick Pratt's criteria (which I really like) of "dont get the best available because if they are available, they aren't the best. Get the best in the business". My thoughts are that the best in the business is not someone on trainer wheels. If it is, stay with what you have and build him up, through support and training, to be the man.
Dunno if any of the above makes sense, they are just my thoughts.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #183 – May 07, 2019, 09:00:36 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 06, 2019, 10:21:14 pm

@EB
I cant argue with what you have posted. I had a rant post ready to go yesterday but pulled the pin on it. It touched on a few of the points you mentioned, the delivery of my post however was alot less sophisticated if you know what I mean. But I would say this, if we went down the track, a replacement would have to tick a few boxes for me.
1. He would need to be able to work with the road map for the list that we have in place now. I would think that disrupting it would set us back years.
2. No first timers, needs to be an established coach who knows how to manage a young group but hit them between the eyes in the right way when needed. Also needs to be in touch with the modern game and where its headed.
3. Must have premiership experience which means it would need to be one of (in no particular order or preference):
Clarkson
Simpson
Longmire
C Scott
Hardwick
Beveridge
Worsfold
The assumption here is that Bolts cant take us to the promised land, therefore if I was going to move him on, I would want someone that knows the way with the list we have. The thing with the list above is that none are available, which meets Dick Pratt's criteria (which I really like) of "dont get the best available because if they are available, they aren't the best. Get the best in the business". My thoughts are that the best in the business is not someone on trainer wheels. If it is, stay with what you have and build him up, through support and training, to be the man.
Dunno if any of the above makes sense, they are just my thoughts.

Agree with most of this GTC, however you left out one premiership coach who is available ATM, Paul Roos. I know most people on here hate him, and if you take their view he hates US as well, however he has the runs on the board and could/would take us to the next level. I'm sure if there was immediate improvement, if he became our coach, everyone would stop bitching about our performances and start looking at the our future which is brighter than some of the teams currently above us.

I'm also frustrated/angry/pissed off etc, by this season of near misses and almost wins, and the shellacking that we got on the weekend, however today I am more optimistic than I was on Sunday. I know that in a year or two we will be waving to the teams on the way down as we pass them on the way up.

My wants this year are to see improvement, which there has been, and to stick it to Adelaide and get their draft pick which will be close or about the same as theirs in regards to the Stocker trade. The first one has been ticked off, that second one we will see what happens though the rest of the season.

GO BLUES

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #184 – May 07, 2019, 10:26:57 am

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #185 – May 07, 2019, 10:42:29 am

Quote from: madbluboy on May 07, 2019, 10:26:57 am

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

I think Cripps in his interview gave us the same feeling. Not being mentally ready for a challenge against a side at their worst is poor. Coaches need to be accountable but surely players need to have a good look in the mirror at themselves. They need to be accountable for how they bring intensity to a contest. It is something the playing group need to work on. Are they just earning a pay cheque or are they out there to stand for something?

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #186 – May 07, 2019, 12:43:00 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on May 07, 2019, 10:26:57 am

We lost to the bottom team by 10 goals, no excuses.

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be. Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA 5.3 14.8    19.8    21.12
RICHMOND 1.3    1.4    4.9    10.11

Familiar looking scoreline? The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag. Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #187 – May 07, 2019, 12:47:08 pm

Nice post tonyo.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #188 – May 07, 2019, 12:49:38 pm

Quote from: tonyo on May 07, 2019, 12:43:00 pm

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be. Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA 5.3 14.8 19.8 21.12
RICHMOND 1.3 1.4 4.9 10.11

Familiar looking scoreline? The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag. Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

I agree the competition is more even, except for us. We are consistently crap.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #189 – May 07, 2019, 01:04:37 pm

Interesting exercise. Total games experience.

Carlton

B

Tom Williamson (16), Liam Jones (119), Lachie Plowman (80)

HB

Marc Murphy (256), Jacob Weitering (63), Dale Thomas (245)

C

Zac Fisher (41), Patrick Cripps (88), Lochie O'Brien (23)

HF

Charlie Curnow (51), Jack Silvagni (46), Ed Curnow (150)

F

Sam Petrevski-Seton (49), Harry McKay (22), Michael Gibbons (7)

Fol

Andrew Phillips (39), Liam Stocker (1), David Cuningham (19)

I/C

Paddy Dow (27), Sam Walsh (7), Caleb Marchbank (40), Levi Casboult (109)

Total Games experience: 1498

North Melbourne

B

Jamie Macmillan (146), Robbie Tarrant (133), Jasper Pittard (133)

HB

Marley Williams (106), Scott D. Thompson (228), Shaun Atley (183)

C

Trent Dumont (67), Shaun Higgins (209), Jared Polec (113)

HF

Tarryn Thomas (5), Taylor Garner (35), Jack Ziebell (195)

F

Kayne Turner (65), Ben Brown (106), Nick Larkey (4)

Fol

Todd Goldstein (219), Ben Cunnington (194), Jed Anderson (50)

I/C

Jy Simpkin (41), Sam Wright (135), Mason Wood (44), Cameron Zurhaar (13)

Total Games Experience: 2424 games.

What is remarkable is how experienced their defense and midfield were vs ours.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #190 – May 07, 2019, 03:51:36 pm

Interesting post Thryleon, Murphy and Thomas make up just over one third of the games played. North average is 110 games which is the zone you should be in if you are trying to win a premiership.
The other point that needs to be made is that our team has had three interstate trips in the first three rounds and while non-Victorian clubs face this challenge every year, they at least get to play other teams who have had to travel every second week. We have played three Melbourne based sides.
Finally the main point I wish to make is that not turning up to play like Carlton did on Sunday is simply not acceptable. This has been going on at the Club for too long now. Players picked chose when they were going to play for Brittain, the picked and chose for Pagen, they picked and chose for Ratten and they picked and chose for Malthouse. They have been better under Bolton but this was the second time they didn't turn up to play. We need players who when things aren't going well for them they are willing to take the game on and try and change their circumstances. That is a mind set and that is culture, it is not hoping but doing.
A young side having a go for six weeks, not getting a fair reward, running into a mature aged side needing to make a statement was always going to be hard however, if Carlton had stood North up in those first 15 minutes, I believe North would have faded away. Sometimes you just need to be tougher mentally than your opponents.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #191 – May 07, 2019, 04:25:52 pm

Reference to Shawny comment earlier about footskills. I made a similar post a few weeks ago after some dreadful turnovers and asked the question, do we have even one bloke on our list with what you would call "elite foot skills"? I think the answer to that is obvious....NONE! I find it staggering that we can identify midfielders and draft them with very high picks while acknowledging that they're not "elite" with their disposal....yet! Dow at pick 3 and O'Brien at pick 10 regularly butcher the footy.

I've also raised this point in posts last year as well and earlier this year and question whether Bolton is the coach to take this young group forward? Clubs like Geelong etc seem to be able to bring young kids into the side and develop them quickly. Would someone like Marchbank or SPS still be floundering in their 3rd and 4th years?

As for Plowman, the guy is a spud with terrible decision making and poor skills by foot on a regular basis. Unfortunately with Newman and Simpson out, he gets a game by default. I doubt Stocker and Williamson would've both played had one of Simpson and Newman been available.

No disrespect to North as they came ready to play obviously but they were bottom of the ladder and were copping a lot of heat in the media. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that they were going to come out ferocious in that first quarter and surely a coaching panel would've had our players fired up and ready for it? Yet we didn't fire a shot and the game was over. It was one of those Carlton results where 10 minutes into the first quarter you just knew we were going to get flogged....and all the reasonably good work of the first 6 weeks goes out the window. And over the last few years there's just been far too many of "those" games.

A 100 point demolition from Collingwood this week is on the cards and if that happens, it's hard to see how Bolton can keep his job. It's hard to make a case for him given we've gone backwards in the last two years.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #192 – May 07, 2019, 04:44:09 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on May 07, 2019, 01:04:37 pm

Interesting exercise. Total games experience.

Carlton

B

Tom Williamson (16), Liam Jones (119), Lachie Plowman (80)

HB

Marc Murphy (256), Jacob Weitering (63), Dale Thomas (245)

C

Zac Fisher (41), Patrick Cripps (88), Lochie O'Brien (23)

HF

Charlie Curnow (51), Jack Silvagni (46), Ed Curnow (150)

F

Sam Petrevski-Seton (49), Harry McKay (22), Michael Gibbons (7)

Fol

Andrew Phillips (39), Liam Stocker (1), David Cuningham (19)

I/C

Paddy Dow (27), Sam Walsh (7), Caleb Marchbank (40), Levi Casboult (109)

Total Games experience: 1498

North Melbourne

B

Jamie Macmillan (146), Robbie Tarrant (133), Jasper Pittard (133)

HB

Marley Williams (106), Scott D. Thompson (228), Shaun Atley (183)

C

Trent Dumont (67), Shaun Higgins (209), Jared Polec (113)

HF

Tarryn Thomas (5), Taylor Garner (35), Jack Ziebell (195)

F

Kayne Turner (65), Ben Brown (106), Nick Larkey (4)

Fol

Todd Goldstein (219), Ben Cunnington (194), Jed Anderson (50)

I/C

Jy Simpkin (41), Sam Wright (135), Mason Wood (44), Cameron Zurhaar (13)

Total Games Experience: 2424 games.

What is remarkable is how experienced their defense and midfield were vs ours.

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #193 – May 07, 2019, 04:45:28 pm

Quote from: tonyo on May 07, 2019, 12:43:00 pm

It seems this year that the bottom team ain't what it used to be. Competition is more level than ever, and if you turn up without being switched on, you will get smashed.

I have a Richmond mate who reminded me of this little beauty he witnessed - Round 16, 2017

ST KILDA 5.3 14.8 19.8 21.12
RICHMOND 1.3 1.4 4.9 10.11

Familiar looking scoreline? The Tigers only lost one game after that and creamed everyone to win the flag. Not saying that is what we will do, but sometimes a flogging can be the pressure point that creates a diamond.

Time for some in Navy Blue to stop looking like talented kids and get a bit serious about how the game is approached.

Take your point on how things turn but Tigers were a bit different in that they were not 4 from 38 going into that game....previous years had them 13th, 5th, 8th, 5th, so for three years in a row they played finals before dropping to 13th.....we have been 18th, 16th, 14th, 18th going backwards.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 7: Carlton vs. North Melbourne

Reply #194 – May 07, 2019, 05:22:22 pm

Quote from: Baggers on May 07, 2019, 04:44:09 pm

Had very little influence on the outcome of the game. When it comes to finding excuses for poor performances our files have every known justification known to humankind and beyond!

As was reported by one of the boundary riders in the media who was at the game, he said you could see the fire in the belly in the Kangaby players, it was palpable, and as soon as they hit our blokes we 'backed away'. Dawks applied heat in the 3rd qtr and we 'backed away'... and so the story goes. That's who we are and who we have been for a long time.

Our problems are solely above the shoulders.

Yes and no. The average North player has done over 5 years of pre seasons and is in their prime. They should be spanking a side of kids like we fielded on sunday and they did.

Ours have done less than 3 on average, and we had a lot of inexperience, and blokes who are battling through working out whether or not we belong. We have lost a couple simply carrying blokes like O brien who arent even AFL standard yet and have played more games than they should have. Add Stocker who made his debut, and anyone thinking that we should have won was kidding themselves.

They did exactly what they should be doing every week.

We did the sort of footy that a team like the one we fielded did.

Look, I get it, it wasnt good enough for the level of talent in the team, but we are asking blokes to play 4 or 5 years ahead of their years, and they just arent capable of it. Your frustration isnt at the coach, it isnt at the players, its at the footy club for taking a really long strategy and perhaps deluding you into a false sense of where you think we should be at.

The sooner you accept that, the better off you will be.