Carlton Supporters Club

We look like we had a little forum glitch for a minute or two but we seem to be back on track now.
Charlie's back in town.
But the Gov is a worry

We look like we had a little forum glitch for a minute or two but we seem to be back on track now.
Charlie's back in town.
But the Gov is a worry

We look like we had a little forum glitch for a minute or two but we seem to be back on track now.
Charlie's back in town.
But the Gov is a worry

He really is. Ok the delivery to the forward line isn’t great but his marking efforts were appalling tonight.

Paid the price for inconsistency tonight. When we try we go ok. We just spend too much time not trying hard enough.

I'm glad I got to experience the unbridled pleasure that comes from watching our players express themselves and play to their strengths, but for me at least, it doesn't look any different from any other honourable loss we've had this season.

Good effort by all. So what's the update - 5 from 44 ?

I'm glad I got to experience the unbridled pleasure that comes from watching our players express themselves and play to their strengths, but for me at least, it doesn't look any different from any other honourable loss we've had this season.

Good effort by all. So what's the update - 5 from 44 ?

Lods I think we may have a little issue on the server - the tab in my browser is showing the buffering icon and has been on and off all day. No probs on any other site.

I'm glad I got to experience the unbridled pleasure that comes from watching our players express themselves and play to their strengths, but for me at least, it doesn't look any different from any other honourable loss we've had this season.

Good effort by all. So what's the update - 5 from 44 ?

1st time in forever we've kicked 100 and lost.

A lot to like tonight.
Shut the media up from the usual "Carlton are terrible, shouldn't be on tv...."
MK gets free for a high tackle earlier in that last play, and we could have snatched it.
Charlie clearly BOG
Daisy kicks a beauty on his 250th.

5 from 45!

Did kick 100. Looks better than the $hit we were playing before even in fits and starts. Take a while to get of the recent $hit we put up with for years, and get used to a new plan. At least we can score.

He said, caustically.

We had another reset.

1 from 2

Ah yes - nice deflection.

You obviously see a glass half full with our club. This is the last game we will win this season. So let’s just hand over pick one to the Crows in the draft.

Terrible, terrible lapse after we kicked our last goal.

With 6-6-6 if you need one more goal you CANNOT let the other team bottle it up. Keep it alive at all costs. A second ball up spells death and that’s exactly what happened.

Having said that, we didn’t deserve to win. Never seen Krooz so comprehensively thrashed.

Well....he hasn't left the site, only to return under a different moniker.....yet.
;)


But yes, its becoming very tiresome, and we are only 2 games in.

It's much better with a more attacking plan but it wil take time because of the $hit from the other bloke. What is it, a win against a side in the top 5 and a narrow lose and managing 100.

So now, lapses in concentration, basic skill errors and honorable losses are ok ?

The Dogs are average, and without Libba for a fair whack of the game.

So now, lapses in concentration, basic skill errors and honorable losses are ok ?

Terrible, terrible lapse after we kicked our last goal.

With 6-6-6 if you need one more goal you CANNOT let the other team bottle it up. Keep it alive at all costs. A second ball up spells death and that’s exactly what happened.

Having said that, we didn’t deserve to win. Never seen Krooz so comprehensively thrashed.

So now, lapses in concentration, basic skill errors and honorable losses are ok ?

The Dogs are average, and without Libba for a fair whack of the game.

The way Casboult and Jones have gone maybe we should put all out struggling forwards in defence...lol.

Old saying Jim was " mugs to the backline"...

McGovern is the most over rated and over paid player on our list.   Didn't even do his usual five minutes this game, was invisible all night.

Old saying Jim was " mugs to the backline"...

McGovern is the most over rated and over paid player on our list.   Didn't even do his usual five minutes this game, was invisible all night.

I don’t like making excuses for players, but he did miss a large portion of pre-season which is impacting his workrate, which obviously needs to improve.

If he can start working harder he’ll be a great player

Haha, yes.....and it's working.

Jones sucess I could understand as he is a real athlete but the Bolt has surprised me with his groundwork and composure....has become a Cale Hooker type.

Our new back six?  :))

(https://media.4rgos.it/i/Argos/8012739_R_Z001A?w=750&h=440&qlt=70)

Our new back six?  :))

(https://media.4rgos.it/i/Argos/8012739_R_Z001A?w=750&h=440&qlt=70)

Jones sucess I could understand as he is a real athlete but the Bolt has surprised me with his groundwork and composure....has become a Cale Hooker type.

Dont think the three specialist forwards works, I'd rather a workhorse like Jack play that 3rd tall forward role, problem with McGovern is that he is a good mark and kick but doesnt do anything else IMO.

I would think 13 weeks of matches is enough to build up some basic match fitness

I think we need to find a new role for Jones that uses his mobility and athleticism. I like Levi in the backline so far - he seems to be very cool under pressure.

Jones sucess I could understand as he is a real athlete but the Bolt has surprised me with his groundwork and composure....has become a Cale Hooker type.

I think we need to find a new role for Jones that uses his mobility and athleticism. I like Levi in the backline so far - he seems to be very cool under pressure.

I would think 13 weeks of matches is enough to build up some basic match fitness

Or Cas, Jones and Weitering play in the same backline to release Plowman to play on the wing... in the vfl.

Suppose Casboult is appreciating not having 3 players on him will ridiculously horrible delivery. found he could actually play.

Someone will get the boot for Jones eventually, Plowman might be in trouble, unless we get adventurous and play him on a wing where he could run amok and play havoc with the opposition physically.

Agree...I would leave the Weitering/Casboult KP duo as is and look to use Jones in a more positive role where he can be a shock trooper.
If either of the other two are having a bad match you can always move Jones back to cover. Hope he is ok and comes back as good as he was,
he must have been really badly concussed and wonder if we will see him in the helmet for a while.
Zurhaar got him good  >:(and was lucky he didnt get some time off too given the extent of Jones time away from the game.

I think McGovern needs a break to get some touch.
His timing was all over the place early tonight.
It left him with no confidence as the game progressed.

Its only his 2nd game back.

Personally, i'd get his eyes tested.

I know Sticks Kernahan was no good at night because he couldn't see the ball with the lights. Maybe Gov has the same problem?

If McGovern doesn't play Charlie doesn't kick 7.

The 3 talls stretch defences. We just need quality small pressure forwards.

If McGovern doesn't play Charlie doesn't kick 7.

The 3 talls stretch defences. We just need quality small pressure forwards.

If he's just a decoy Kerr could fill that role...
Jones could too, and it may be better to ease him back through that role than taking a key role in defence with Casboult doing well down there.
I know Jones has been tried without success before but I suspect he'd be a better forward now having played on some of the best forwards.

Funnily enough, the thought actually crossed my mind tonight also when he was constantly misjudging the ball.
Does he have a vision issue?
His accuracy has been good, best of the forwards.
His impact though usually comes in bursts.
What else is he giving us at the moment ?

He's better than a decoy, and he went on ball once or twice to change it up and get some bigger bodies there.

Let's face it, he has a role.

Yes another ‘honourable’ loss but Christ a lot of what we watched live was damn exciting! It was enjoyable being at the footy again.  Of course there was times that were shake of head stuff but then there was just joyous brilliance and NOT a Crippa in sight! 

Had some moments in the second I thought god we are so dumb but then they found their way to right the dumb and off we went again.

I knew that 3 min lapse at the end of the 3rd would bite us but was happy to see real fight.  Umpiring pissed me right off too, we don’t want to notice you umps, stop making us notice you for the wrong reasons ????

Is it a role that’s worth $700k a year.

Is it a role that’s worth $700k a year.

Just got home from the game, what a rollercoaster, plenty of positives (C Curnow, Walsh, Kreuzer after 1/4 time, Setterfield, Murphy), but still too many negatives (McGovern, McKay, too many small mids who can't find the ball and have very little impact on the game)

Ain't that the glaringly obvious missing piece of the forward line. Not sure where we get a small forward from.

haven't watched any of it yet but two things spring to mind:

1. we played (all up) two good quarters, but two terrible ones too; and

2. Blokes like Dow, LOB, maybe even SPS shouldn't be playing 1s presently.

In the immediate term? DeLuca..

Kreuzer is the least of our problems.  A swag of midfielders who don't get it enough,  don't tackle,  apply little defensive pressure when we don't have the pill,  and have dreadful disposal and ball use - that's our biggest issue.
......................

...............................

The main thing I’m really over seeing is our guys just getting pushed past when they’re trying to tackle.  I think I yelled out more ‘bring him to ground!’ Than anything else last night. Very frustrating.

....and not haven't watched any of it, what leads you to single them out???

At this point, we are simply not a stripping team. If we don't get first use, we simply don't have size, smarts, coaching, whatever it is, to force a turnover and regain possession. If the other mob get first use, especially out of the middle, they just move it effortlessly for a shot on goal. We are far too reliant on Cripps and first touch.

The one player who consistently disappoints me is Petrevski Seton. 

Lots of class, but 4 quarter endeavour for his talent far below what it should be. 

Lackadaisical

Fisher and Dow really worry me.   It's the continuing lack of meaning impact.  Fisher hasn't been the same since Howe broke his leg and Dow...well,  another game where his raw stats are very poor and his disposal remains average at best.   And SOS has stated he would have taken him at one.   I remain unconvinced why.

We need solid,  mature mids badly because these kids aren't giving enough highlights,  let alone any consistency. I'd take solid and reliable over flash any day.

Work in progress turning the good ship PP onto a new course.

This loss may actually help in disciplining the side to learn to 'clamp' sides when they have the ascendancy. Also quietens the fairy story fans.

What the boys have learned is that they have some serious offensive threats and can score quickly and constantly - two weeks in a row of strong scoring in burst. Just a process now to harness and channel that for more consistency.

I saw far more positives in that game, when viewed as an education in offensive skills/learning, than the few obvious negatives. The strong comebacks were especially positive considering Cripps had little influence.

To me the one glaring negative is, and we all know this, too many runts in the midfield. Just need another big body or two in there to support Cripps.

Our third quarter where we were on top was all Matthew kreuzer.

He took English to town for a quarter after having lowered his colours in the first half.

English lifted in the last.

That was all she wrote.

Our forwards were as bad at locking it in for most of the game as they have been all season aside from that third quarter.

That last run of goals came in junk time after the Bulldogs went 5 goals up.  They hit 15 goals 13 and put the queue in the rack a little too early.

Once we got a run on we stormed back into the game and they rallied and went into a mark kick scenario to kill the momentum and the clock.

People searching for positives will find them.  People searching for negatives will find them.

That wasnt a rmgame we looked like winning for most of it and felt like the north game with one difference.

The Bulldogs are crap and actually turned it over in the third quarter which contributed to us getting back into it.  Typified by caleb Daniel's turnover.


I've seen a trend emerge over the last fortnight.   We are becoming downhill skiers who run harder offensively than they do defensively (backed up by the afl app).  That can be a product of the plan.  It depends on whether or not it requires teams to work harder to attack than defend.  The Bulldogs have the opposite statistic.

.....................................
Our forwards were as bad at locking it in for most of the game as they have been all season aside from that third quarter.

That last run of goals came in junk time after the Bulldogs went 5 goals up.  They hit 15 goals 13 and put the queue in the rack a little too early.

Once we got a run on we stormed back into the game and they rallied and went into a mark kick scenario to kill the momentum and the clock.

People searching for positives will find them.  People searching for negatives will find them.

That wasn't a game we looked like winning for most of it and felt like the north game with one difference.

The Bulldogs are crap and actually turned it over in the third quarter which contributed to us getting back into it.  Typified by caleb Daniel's turnover.


I've seen a trend emerge over the last fortnight.   We are becoming downhill skiers who run harder offensively than they do defensively (backed up by the afl app).  That can be a product of the plan.  It depends on whether or not it requires teams to work harder to attack than defend.  The Bulldogs have the opposite statistic.

Yep, we need players who can make the likes of Dow, SPS, Fish and LOB really have to strive a lot harder to get a berth.

The one player who consistently disappoints me is Petrevski Seton. 

Lots of class, but 4 quarter endeavour for his talent far below what it should be. 

Lackadaisical

My concern is that Dow, SPS and LOB each seem to have acquired the bad habit (from some players I won't name) of casually running along side the opposition ball carrier to give the impression of applying pressure instead of charging full throttle at that prick like you want to break him in half. For guys with good leg speed they really don't use it enough in defensive situations.

My concern is that Dow, SPS and LOB each seem to have acquired the bad habit (from some players I won't name) of casually running along side the opposition ball carrier to give the impression of applying pressure instead of charging full throttle at that prick like you want to break him in half. For guys with good leg speed they really don't use it enough in defensive situations.

....and not haven't watched any of it, what leads you to single them out???

This has been raised many times by many posters over the years, and one of the issues I have is that by simple inference, one senior coach after another is either blind, corrupt or incompetent, or possibly all three, because there can be no other logical explanation if your observations are correct.

Imagine the coaches box over the last decade - supposedly Murphy and Gibbs lead the way, but no coach (senior, assistant) ever did a thing ? I can see it if we had one coach over the journey, and he was either hopeless or played favourites, but 6 senior coaches have seen Murphy play, and 2 or 3 have seen SPS, Dow and LOB play, but don't notice these bad habits emerging ?

EDIT : in fact Teague was visibly please to have Murphy back in the pre match interview.

Pyke had it right, stick Gibbs in the twos.

Problem of our lack of midfield depth, replacing them. If we had the depth we have forward and back so of them might've seen more twos time.

This has been raised many times by many posters over the years, and one of the issues I have is that by simple inference, one senior coach after another is either blind, corrupt or incompetent, or possibly all three, because there can be no other logical explanation if your observations are correct.

Imagine the coaches box over the last decade - supposedly Murphy and Gibbs lead the way, but no coach (senior, assistant) ever did a thing ? I can see it if we had one coach over the journey, and he was either hopeless or played favourites, but 6 senior coaches have seen Murphy play, and 2 or 3 have seen SPS, Dow and LOB play, but don't notice these bad habits emerging ?

EDIT : in fact Teague was visibly please to have Murphy back in the pre match interview.

Comments from others....that all 3 were worse than pathetic in the first half. That Dow finished with 9 disposals (and whose disposal is arguable the worst in the AFL)....

Need I go on....

Not really. Simple case of no-one to replace them.

With another big body or two in the midfield blokes like Fisher/SPS will be more outside and dangerous.

Couldn’t agree more.

Out of all our kids Dow and Fish get the least criticism.

Have major doubts on Dow. Given a long run in the seniors for sfa improvement. Disposal is poor and just don’t notice him - I guess collecting under 10 touches a game may be a reason.

Drop him for Kennedy. Dow in the 2nds will at least touch it more and get his confidence and hopefully skills up. Then give Kennedy the remainder of the year in the seniors. Needs an extended run for us to see why he has. Must display a reason why we should resign him.

If they are as bad as people on here make out, don't you think that 13,14,15 years would be enough time to find replacements ? I imagine this would be something marked "urgent" with indelible ink.

Slow starts are not helping the results the side comes away with. Surely with the bye, the coaches have a chance to address a few simple issues. Why is the tackle count so low in the first quarter. One percenters and general pressure on your opponent. Can the club be so ignorant to miss these simple issues? You don’t need huge bodies to address these problems. Get some of the basics working better Teague. A couple of player changes and things could swing your way. Don’t allow lazy football to exist at the club.

Based on that, we should start well against Freo. But can we sustain it??

Are those bagging SPS and Fish and Dow, watching any of the games live?

I don't know, seeing them live I see a great future but as has been said a trillion times on here, they are just kids who have been thrust into roles that ideally they would work towards, have time in the 2's, etc, but we don't have any cover for them.

SPS and Fish are two of the smartest footballers I've seen for a long time, there's rarely stupid long bombs, they're considered and accurate.  Defensively they're too small to take anyone down, does that come in time?  I assume so but I don't know if their physical development is complete.

And Dow will be something special, he has something.  He is 19.

Are those bagging SPS and Fish and Dow, watching any of the games live?

I don't know, seeing them live I see a great future but as has been said a trillion times on here, they are just kids who have been thrust into roles that ideally they would work towards, have time in the 2's, etc, but we don't have any cover for them.

SPS and Fish are two of the smartest footballers I've seen for a long time, there's rarely stupid long bombs, they're considered and accurate.  Defensively they're too small to take anyone down, does that come in time?  I assume so but I don't know if their physical development is complete.

And Dow will be something special, he has something.  He is 19.

Also, Weiters was widely constantly criticised on here in the past, and last night he was the one I wanted to have the ball, I wanted him to be the one to mark.  As good as Casbolt was and i"m happy for him that he's doing well, I still close my eyes when he has to kick it, hoping for the best!  He took great marks last night but I don't have the level of faith in him that I absolutely have for Weiters now.  Weiters is a beast (a slow beast, tho!)

Are those bagging SPS and Fish and Dow, watching any of the games live?

I don't know, seeing them live I see a great future but as has been said a trillion times on here, they are just kids who have been thrust into roles that ideally they would work towards, have time in the 2's, etc, but we don't have any cover for them.

SPS and Fish are two of the smartest footballers I've seen for a long time, there's rarely stupid long bombs, they're considered and accurate.  Defensively they're too small to take anyone down, does that come in time?  I assume so but I don't know if their physical development is complete.

And Dow will be something special, he has something.  He is 19.

When Ed was moved on to Bontompelli, Liberatore immediately began bumping and blocking Ed, making his task harder and life easier for the Bont.  The last time I saw one of our players do that it was the Chief dealing with Judd’s tagger.

O’Brien again yesterday showed why he will be very handy for us as we surge forward. Players are gaining confidence in sending the ball to him, knowing the high percentage of his decision making is very good. Again last night he was involved in some of our most exciting passages of play.

I think that the problem with Fisher, Dow and Samo is that they are usually under enormous pressure.  The emergence of Setterfield should help but we desperately need another inside mid and a mindset focused on looking after teammates with blocks, shepherds and team-oriented stuff generally.

When Ed was moved on to Bontompelli, Liberatore immediately began bumping and blocking Ed, making his task harder and life easier for the Bont.  The last time I saw one of our players do that it was the Chief dealing with Judd’s tagger.

Yep, that's glaring to me too.  There is very rarely any sheparding or blocking by our players.  I don't know why, I would think this would be one of the easiest things to implement, when you give off the ball to a player, help them move forward by blocking your opponent and/or his from going after him!  Really, a no brainer.  Saw that too many times last night where we gave it off then stood there, job done apparently  ::)

In the immediate term? DeLuca..

Didn't notice Deluca in the 2's.
Has he played yet?

I must have been watching a different game..be more handy in the twos learning how to kick and hit a target...16 kicks @59% Disposal efficiency including a shocker out on the full at a critical time.
The Dogs wingman in Lipinksi has about 27 @86% plus 2 goals.....not a bad afternoons work for a 20 gamer...
LOB for a pick 10 has a long way to go and is lucky we dont bat deep in the two's, he wont be looking forward to Deluca getting fit either.

I don't think he has. After the bye I believe. This was written on May 29th :

Deluca suffered a grade one hamstring tear at training last Monday night and won’t be available for selection for at least another week or two. With Carlton having their mid-season bye in Round 14, he might not be in the frame for a senior game in the next month.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/how-midseason-rookie-draft-no-1-pick-josh-deluca-got-a-second-chance-at-carlton/news-story/b0466ca980e1544e0954d22fc32d1f1a

Credit where it's due - LOB was much better last night.

He was one of our best in the first half. Died out a little in the second but ran his guts out against his far more experienced opponents (mostly Hunter).

Overall has been much better the last 2 weeks .

Far from perfect but developing nicely and hopefully he can get more of the ball from now on.

(Lipinski is a 3rd year player and would have about 10kg on LOB)

Thanks Paul
..............

LOB is 185cm and 78kg, Pick 10 and has played 26 games, Lipinski is 187cm and 84kg, Pick 28 and has played 21 games....Not a real lot of difference given they run down the wing and dont do stoppage work.
LOB was meant to be a very good kick but continues to butcher the ball, 59% is very poor given he isnt a contested player
and requires other players to give him the ball so he can be the link player with supposed good disposal.
He is very lucky we dont have much in the two's IMO...Pick 10 was way overs given his output and skill level.

3rd year vs. 2nd year.

Pick 10 may look overs right now - but as I say you're incredibly harsh on a 19 year old. Just show a tiny bit of patience.

(Should see what he says about poor young Ben Silvagni!!)

forgive me for calling him out when I should be wearing my Navy Blue glasses and adoring his wonderful work.

I think the term you used for a raw 19 year old who has played a handful of NB games ‘an oxygen thief’. Personally I’d prefer to keep that terminology for paedophiles, granny bashers and rapists, not young kids wearing a Carlton jumper who are just starting out.

Maybe I was a bit harsh with oxygen thief but I get frustrated when players dont chase or give the required minimal effort and think they can slack off...19 year olds still have to chase and provide effort.
His brother Jack provides the role model that Ben should be following....

You must have been a well developed 18 year old in your day.

Ben is 196cm and 87kg, you would think if the much
smaller Sam Walsh can make the effort to chase and tackle senior players then Ben can make a bit of effort to chase some kids
from the burbs around in the twos...

With all due respect EB1 I think our expectations requuire a bit of tempering.  I agree he isnt doing that well, but a couple of things.  1.  Big men take longer to come on.  2.  He has shown glimpses of talent, and he seems to be one of those who thinks it will just happen if you are good enough, hence why he went from a potential pick 1, to almost not drafted.  3.  Walsh is not your average kid joining the AFL and of his draft year only a couple of had anywhere near the impact he has and most draftees will never even equal his achievement let alone show his attitude.  4.  The NB's have a habit of taking chocolates and turning them into boiled lollies for our draftees and AFL players and we might do well to start pumping some much needed resources into Preston if we want that relationship to flourish and continue.  Polson has 100% of the correct attitude and even he struggles to show something.  Perhaps this level is simply much harder for these kids than we thinkg it is and unless you are supremely talented and prepared to do what it takes, you wont succeed at this level.

PS GOING MISSING

Sam Petrevski-Seton is a smooth mover, and when he gets the ball in hand, he can look like a million bucks.

So, where was he in the first half tonight? Six touches running through the midfield is about as bad as it gets in a half of footy. No hard tag. No one giving him special attention – he just could not get near it.

For mine, this bloke, for all his talent and all his ability, goes missing in games way too often. Bundle him in with Paddy Dow if you like, but I actually rate SPS higher. He had 35 touches in Round Five, and fast forward eight weeks, he can go virtually unsighted for an entire half of footy?

He is now 55 games into his career. Carlton are waiting for someone to leap out of the box in the midfield and provide a spark. Sam Walsh will provide a steady, solid hand, but they need someone explosive. It should be SPS. It could be Zac Fisher. It definitely won’t be Lachie O’Brien – he’s a spud and if you argue against that, I think you run the risk of exposing your footy ignorance. Watch him duck his head in a marking contest on the lead in the second quarter inside 50. Unnatural forward, unnatural midfielder.

People talk about the Blues building, or the Blues coming, or smelling what the Blues are cooking (my favourite), but unless SPS is prominent more often than he goes missing, it probably isn’t going to happen. At some point the distance between a 35 disposal whacking and an 18 disposal cameo has to close, and it has to be sooner rather than later for the Blues to improve.

^^  I don't disagree with you EB.  It is half expected though.  He isn't the first, and wont be the last.  In fact, brother Jack might be the way he is because of brother Ben.  Less talent, more determination.  Anyway, we will see.  First year players get a bit of a reprieve for mine simply because there is a massive culture shock and playing at our footy club appears to be a burden that weighs heavily on better players.

Speaking of which, I understand that lachie O'brien is a youngster and you review youngsters too harshly at your peril, but have a look at what an independant scribe says about him.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/06/13/gbudogsblues



I can handle form slumps when they have shown ability.  SPS is showing waivering form, and Dow is having second year blues.  I wrote off any expectations of him having a good year about 4 or 5 weeks ago when he was going backwards form wise, and that is continuing.  He will be better next year, that I know because his first season showed he had more in him.  This is why we haven't been better this year.  In fact, the kids are playing about as well as we can hope given how much load they have to carry.  There are others around the traps that have shown more, and are delivering less.  Its the senior players that are really going missing when we need them.  We seem to lack fulll game footballers at the moment, and its a real problem.

In fact Teague has got ahead of himself already.  Jack Silvagni has been one of the few 4 quarter players we have had this season and dropping him last week sends entirely the wrong message to the playing group.


Finally does anyone know what Ed Curnow has done to himself and if he will be available next week?  Rumour has it he went off in the final quarter and didnt come back on.

LOB is simply a waste of a #10 selection.

Major f... up.

He wouldn't get a game at any other AFL Club. Period.

LOB is simply a waste of a #10 selection.

Major f... up.

He wouldn't get a game at any other AFL Club. Period.

What's the average success rate for pick #10?

I'll be surprised if it's better than 50%, which is pure chance, so any pick that looks capable of playing 100 games is a winner!

https://www.draftguru.com.au/picks/10

There's some good ones and also some shockers in there, like most pick numbers.

Thanks PaulP, that's 13 of the last 37 that have made 100 games, 35% success!

...........

The fact is you cannot tell if he'll be any good or not as he's skinny and 19.

Disagreeing with that is a "spud"like thing to do in my opinion.

Anyone can bookmark this page and come back in 12 months and make you look a complete and total dill.

LOB is simply a waste of a #10 selection.

Major f... up.

He wouldn't get a game at any other AFL Club. Period.

Thats the poor young Ben who wont chase, cant be bothered putting in much effort and thinks playing senior footy will just happen because Dad's a big wheel
at the club and is doing it so tough...

The fact is you cannot tell if he'll be any good or not as he's skinny and 19.

Disagreeing with that is a "spud"like thing to do in my opinion.

Anyone can bookmark this page and come back in 12 months and make you look a complete and total dill.

There’s something about LOB - he’s hungry for it and he was hugely pissed when he gave away a free in their f50.  Showed some passion, lacking at CFC for many lately

I agree he was a unusual pick 10, and one that raised eyebrows.  However he does have one good quality about him that I like. He has the confidence to use the ball long by foot - He kicks it hard and low a lot of the time and while his DE might not be as good as say a Walsh or SPS who like to chip the ball 20-25mts, when Obrien hits the target they are damaging possessions. They usually give our forwards a one on one and he kicks nicely to advantage as well. Long foot skills is a great quality to see in a very young player. He obviously still has heaps to build on but I rate that side of his game...I'm willing to give him more time.

Dow is the one that concerns me.....doesn't get it often and when he does its usually not clean. My concern is how many young players over the years, have we developed from a poor kick to a good one? Not many!  We are not Geelong or Hawthorn in the development side so selecting Dow with pick 3 was a dumb move IMO.

Couldn’t disagree more that he was a miss at pick 3 - second year player who had live breaking speed which is rare. He’ll tidy up his disposal and I think I’m time he will be an absolute gem. Just some teething issues, nothing more.

Dow is a genuine worry for me. He was thrown into the deep end from the get-go but his disposal can still be quite erratic, all too often in fact. Not sure whether this can be fixed? Perhaps more quality time with Diesel?

Although hailed as the MF type we so badly needed, Kennedy has not really delivered much and looks very slow. OK he has been injured but he does need to start to show the goods soon, with some really convincing performances in the NBs, otherwise........

LOB is another kid who has been thrown into the deep end to sink or swim and at times does it tough. Ideally he would be playing NBs, probably for this year at least, but our lack of depth has seen him prematurely thrown into the front line. Hopefully this does not result in a premature fall from grace. CFC can be a cruel place indeed!

There is plenty of talk about us going into the market to bolster our mature MF stocks - let us pray that this talk turns into action this year or else we will likely regress as our existing elder statesmen come up for retirement and our kids get broken or disillusioned.

Luke Beveridge made a point on TF that Footscray had less game experience than Carlton on Sunday. I checked this out and he is right by a total of three games overall. This is where stats are misleading. If you take out our three most experienced players and take out there most experienced players then the differential is over 300 in our favour. Our six most experienced players make up 65% of our total games played. Because of this our players will be up and down with form.
I was also reminded on FC that McGovern broke his back in the pre-season which will explain the issues with his hamstring tightness and gives some context around the lack of impact he is having in games.

Dow is a genuine worry for me. He was thrown into the deep end from the get-go but his disposal can still be quite erratic, all too often in fact. Not sure whether this can be fixed? Perhaps more quality time with Diesel?

Although hailed as the MF type we so badly needed, Kennedy has not really delivered much and looks very slow. OK he has been injured but he does need to start to show the goods soon, with some really convincing performances in the NBs, otherwise........

LOB is another kid who has been thrown into the deep end to sink or swim and at times does it tough. Ideally he would be playing NBs, probably for this year at least, but our lack of depth has seen him prematurely thrown into the front line. Hopefully this does not result in a premature fall from grace. CFC can be a cruel place indeed!

There is plenty of talk about us going into the market to bolster our mature MF stocks - let us pray that this talk turns into action this year or else we will likely regress as our existing elder statesmen come up for retirement and our kids get broken or disillusioned.

Dow's main improvement will be getting more of the ball, he was never a reliable kick at TAC level so I dont think that is likely to improve much at senior AFL level.
He got big numbers at TAC level....30 possies was an average game for him and was getting 40 possies a game at times, it was his work rate and non stop running that was the key to his game much like we see from Walsh and why the latter is so good and carried that TAC form across.

I'd leave Dow on a wing and let him run up and down and keep him out of the middle where you need real grunt and muscle. The kid is a running machine and being used
wrongly IMO.

Dow's main improvement will be getting more of the ball, he was never a reliable kick at TAC level so I dont think that is likely to improve much at senior AFL level.
He got big numbers at TAC level....30 possies was an average game for him and was getting 40 possies a game at times, it was his work rate and non stop running that was the key to his game much like we see from Walsh and why the latter is so good and carried that TAC form across.

I'd leave Dow on a wing and let him run up and down and keep him out of the middle where you need real grunt and muscle. The kid is a running machine and being used
wrongly IMO.

EB, Dow is too slow to be left on a wing

He's as bad a kick for goal as I've seen! 

EB, Dow is too slow to be left on a wing - would get cut up on counter attack. the thing is if as you say his kicking is unlikely to improve at senior level 1) Why did we draft him at pick 3? and 2) Do we want a bloke getting it 30 times if 15 of those 30 are clangers or turnovers.

I would rather we kept Robbo and Bell if disposal could be excused.

IMO he should be in the 2s racking up possessions without the pressure of the seniors and only step back up once he has improved that part of his game.

He's as bad a kick for goal as I've seen!

It's an indictment on how poor Kennedy and Lang have been, albeit missing games with injuries too. They were recruited for that bigger bodied midfield role and have done absolutely SFA and will be lucky to survive the cull at year-end IMO.

Throw the proverbial kitchen sink at Coniglio and if that means this year's first round pick and next year's as well then I'd do it....you know exactly what you're getting....a strong inside/oustide midfielder who's shown he can also kick goals...and still relatively young.

Dow reminds me of Judd, who BTW also had abysmal disposal.
If Dow can keep developing and find the ball as much as Judd did, he will be ok. i am not concerned about him.
I had big concerns around LOB. He went pretty well in the last game, he had some good possessions and used the ball reasonably well. I doubt he will be a world beater, but he will be a good AFL footballer. He is the type of guy that at any other club he would be playing in the 2s and likely wouldnt have been considered for a senior game at this point, but he is at Carlton and we aren't blessed with depth and he has shown improvement and definitely heart.

Agreed, Dow's go is to be the man in the middle sweeper, he needs to get in between Cripps/Setterfield and whoever we have working outside the stoppage. Dow to receive then burst and dish off to whoever we have passing to break open the stoppage. We need him using those first 3 to 5 steps to buy the outside runners time and space to use the ball better. At the moment we have SPS and Fisher being the sweeper roles, and handing off to Dow and others, I think that is back to front because Dow was never a great ball user!

Judd's disposal was A ok until injury hit....and it was always better than Paddy's - which has become laughably bad sadly.

Agree - though Judd's was never top notch.

Dow is playing like he needs a rest in the 2s to get his mojo back.

Harry needs to seriously improve his ruck work before he gets more time on ball. Hopefully that will develop nicely over the next 12 months (I'm sure he's doing plenty at training because we need him to be able to play that role)

I'd like them in the 2s just to have a break from playing seniors. So many young blokes are bearing the brunt in the midfield long before their time. Takes a toll after a while.

The problem with this logic is that the VFL games can actually be more taxing on the kids.
Its a more physical brand of football in the VFL as they are less talented than the AFL, so the ball ends up on the ground a lot more leading to more contests.
The grounds are generally smaller as well, meaning players are less likely to be out in space.
The grounds generally have worse conditions too. Be that the playing surface, or the gale force winds that some experience.
All leading to more contests.

The kids, could potentially spend more time actually in the midfield in the 2's as their relative ability means they might be the #1 midfielder in the VFL team, but #6 in the AFL side.


So....all of this 'resting' in the 2's could actually be more taxing on them.

Jeza....would you not have Walsh in that list of our 3 best mids? He's streets ahead of Dow.

Another argument about "resting players in the 2s" comes from Mick Malthouse.  He is adamant that playing in the 2s negatively affects a player's performance and, accordingly, he was reluctant to let usual first 22 players spend time in the 2s.  That was why he recalled players, even if their form in the 2s didn't justify promotion.

If Russell decides that a youngster needs a break, he should have a break and not play in the NBs.

The problem with this logic is that the VFL games can actually be more taxing on the kids.
Its a more physical brand of football in the VFL as they are less talented than the AFL, so the ball ends up on the ground a lot more leading to more contests.
The grounds are generally smaller as well, meaning players are less likely to be out in space.
The grounds generally have worse conditions too. Be that the playing surface, or the gale force winds that some experience.
All leading to more contests.

The kids, could potentially spend more time actually in the midfield in the 2's as their relative ability means they might be the #1 midfielder in the VFL team, but #6 in the AFL side.


So....all of this 'resting' in the 2's could actually be more taxing on them.

Give them a break from the scrutiny of the AFL and the pressure of the crowd. Play at a lower level, rack up 30 and relax a bit, have a bit of fun and then come back. Maybe take a week off footy all together also.

Regardless.... Dow's form doesn't warrant selection in the AFL right now. I don't think many would argue with that.

I would  :)

He will learn nothing in the NBs, no-one in the NBs is putting their hand up to take his place, and he’s doing OK in a team that needs a couple of mature mids to take some heat off Dow, Walsh, Fisher, Samo ...