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Topic: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide (Read 4339 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #75
That was as appalling an effort I have watched for a long time. I haven't watched Voss' press conference but I understand he made some comment about not turning up to play. I have argued a long time that Carlton's lack of success has not been about the quality of the players, coaches, football department, the CEO, administration or even the Board, though it would be good if they wood just get out of the way sometimes, I believe that the problem at Carlton is all about the Club Culture. Elliot and his cronies absolutely destroyed our winning culture and the Club has been unable to re-find it. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The Club is the most comfortable and rewarding environment for any player to achieve mediocracy. We sack coaches, change administrations and seek success from outsiders while taking no responsibility and showing no leadership from within. I think the Club was pretty comfortable finishing ninth last season. We had all summer to dwell on how unlucky we were and how we were ready to take the next step. As I have said, I don't think we missed out on the top eight last season, I think we missed out on the top four.
Last night the team lacked pace, lacked skills, lacked endeavor, lacked leadership, lacked fitness, didn't play as a team, didn't run out the quarters and didn't turn up. Picking and choosing when they are going to play and have a go has been a problem at the Club since the late nineties. This is what I am referring to when I say the problem is culture. The players and coaches keep saying what an honour it is to play in front of the large and passionate Carlton member and supporter base but they regularly treat us with disrespect and contempt by simply not being bothered or prepared to have a go.
When was the last time a Carlton team went on a run and won a large number of games in a row and set the competition alight. How often do we paly exhilarating games of football. Setanta and his little helpers, Geelong in 2011, the second half against Brisbane when Teague took over, the comeback against the Bulldogs, the win against the Dockers when Murphy kicked the winning goal. That is five games in fifteen years. And it is not about winning. We lost that game against the Bulldogs but the crowd was roaring. So here we are again, another season and the same old rubbish. We have the players, we have the coaches, we have the administration but it is still the same old Carlton. Time to sack the Coach and change the Board. That always works.
One thing we do need is more pace in the mid-field. The only two players we have who fit this criteria are Dow and Fisher. It is interesting that the only time this season our mid-field has been effective was when Fisher was up their.

PICKING AND CHOOSING   >:(  sums it up and wraps it up in a nice little bow.

PS Nice post!   :)
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #76
I heard somewhere today the Cows had 10 players that had played under 50 games.
Uummm, does that mean we are looking at a rebuild already?
Look at the way they played!
We have young fellas in the wings.  .....don't we?
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #77
I heard somewhere today the Cows had 10 players that had played under 50 games.
Uummm, does that mean we are looking at a rebuild already?
Look at the way they played!
We have young fellas in the wings.  .....don't we?

Commentary during the pre-game referenced 10 of 22 round 1 draft picks. Not sure about under 50 games though.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #78
Looked tired and flat need a 10 day break
But need some changes as TDK can't handle the ruck and he has Rowan Marshall next week.

Only problem I see with this. This is a normal season and our schedule is the same as the other 17 clubs.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

 

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #79
There were two umpiring decisions that really shat me off last night.

The intentional OOB against Fisher & the 50m penalty against Kennedy were disgraceful, nothing less.

If you can watch the game again (not sure many will) pay attention to both of those calls and you will see why they were plainly wrong.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #80
There were two umpiring decisions that really shat me off last night.

The intentional OOB against Fisher & the 50m penalty against Kennedy were disgraceful, nothing less.

If you can watch the game again (not sure many will) pay attention to both of those calls and you will see why they were plainly wrong.
Agree....Fisher got pushed in the back imho and should have got the free....
Of course when you win a game like we did vs GWS with that controversial dissent call the karma bus usually parks near your door in the following weeks and we probably got a visit last night.
The Hewett encroaching into the protected area free was also unlucky...yep he got sucked in chasing his man close to the kicker but its a stupid rule all the same.

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #81
That was as appalling an effort I have watched for a long time. I haven't watched Voss' press conference but I understand he made some comment about not turning up to play. I have argued a long time that Carlton's lack of success has not been about the quality of the players, coaches, football department, the CEO, administration or even the Board, though it would be good if they wood just get out of the way sometimes, I believe that the problem at Carlton is all about the Club Culture. Elliot and his cronies absolutely destroyed our winning culture and the Club has been unable to re-find it. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The Club is the most comfortable and rewarding environment for any player to achieve mediocracy. We sack coaches, change administrations and seek success from outsiders while taking no responsibility and showing no leadership from within. I think the Club was pretty comfortable finishing ninth last season. We had all summer to dwell on how unlucky we were and how we were ready to take the next step. As I have said, I don't think we missed out on the top eight last season, I think we missed out on the top four.
Last night the team lacked pace, lacked skills, lacked endeavor, lacked leadership, lacked fitness, didn't play as a team, didn't run out the quarters and didn't turn up. Picking and choosing when they are going to play and have a go has been a problem at the Club since the late nineties. This is what I am referring to when I say the problem is culture. The players and coaches keep saying what an honour it is to play in front of the large and passionate Carlton member and supporter base but they regularly treat us with disrespect and contempt by simply not being bothered or prepared to have a go.
When was the last time a Carlton team went on a run and won a large number of games in a row and set the competition alight. How often do we paly exhilarating games of football. Setanta and his little helpers, Geelong in 2011, the second half against Brisbane when Teague took over, the comeback against the Bulldogs, the win against the Dockers when Murphy kicked the winning goal. That is five games in fifteen years. And it is not about winning. We lost that game against the Bulldogs but the crowd was roaring. So here we are again, another season and the same old rubbish. We have the players, we have the coaches, we have the administration but it is still the same old Carlton. Time to sack the Coach and change the Board. That always works.
One thing we do need is more pace in the mid-field. The only two players we have who fit this criteria are Dow and Fisher. It is interesting that the only time this season our mid-field has been effective was when Fisher was up their.

That's a thoughtful post, Blue Moon.  I saw my first Carlton game 78 years ago, so I am well acquainted with mediocrity.  If I remember correctly it was about 1965/66 that club culture finally developed and lasted until it was destroyed by Elliot.

Since then bitter experience has shown that regularly changing coaches and expecting a different result doesn't work.  We certainly haven't done ourselves any favours with so many dreadful draft selections made this century. 

I think club culture develops naturally when a club starts to win games consistently, especially after a long period in the wilderness.  I don't see this list having the ability to make that happen.

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #82
The biggest howler was right at the start of the game on the 3rd ball up when Cripps grabbed the ball and an ineffective short-range handball to Ollie Hollands saw the ball fall loose. He was then tackled from the front by Rachel’s IIRC but as Cripps turned around to go after the loose ball O’Brien joined in a gang tackle while the ball was at O’Brien’s feet and they pushed him down onto his back and lay on top of him as the ball was rolling away. How was that not holding the man? AFAIK, the tacklers’ ignorance that the ball is no longer in possession is irrelevant. That set the scene for some home ground decisions and they scored their first goal less than 30 seconds later.

There was another bizarre one where one of our players “marked” a ball but the umpire had called touched. A Crow was allowed to come in and put his shoulder into a high speed tackled straight in the back of our player. WTF, you can’t slam into someone’s back when applying a tackle.

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #83
"Saw it coming", "Didn't turn up", "The loss we had to have", what a load of crape!
what I see coming is another game where we play an opponent motivated and who will likely be coming off a tough match win or lose.

History has taught me we are about to go through two additional terrible losses.

I'm not peddling this loss we had to have crap but we'll see how they respond.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #84
Starting the Gather Round with a huge win by Adelaide - of course it was going to be hard, of course they were going to get the majority of good calls, of course they were in the box seat to get any 50/50 call, of course it’s best for SA if Adelaide AND PA both win, and especially if they do it resoundingly so.

But FFS are we not premiership contenders? That’s what everyone’s been saying. So we should’ve
Taken all that heat and still smashed them!

Fact is, we are not near it. It sucks but we are still too reliant on Cripps to drag us along - no one else does it, no one! No one is on the field screaming and revving anyone up - it’s so depressing, because it’s just another lacklustre season. So hope I’m wrong but not seeing anything to suggest otherwise.

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #85
@ Bluemoon
Mate I feel your pain, clearly your tone is one of utter disappointment and bewilderment, I think it's safe to say we all feel the same way. BUT (yes there's always a BUT), a couple of things respectfully if I may.
1. I can't buy into, or rather I can't get my head around, the notion of "the culture has been stuffed since the nineties". There is no way in hell players like Moo and Dutchy walked in the door this year and were pulled aside by the keepers of this so called evil Carlton Culture and were indoctrinated in it. The relevance or effect of those that walked the halls of PP in the 90s is totally irrelevant to those that walk the same halls today. How many coaches, presidents, boards have we had since then? Respectfully mate its a nonsense in my opinion. I dont think culture is the cause of last nights awful performance. I said in a previous post, one cannot compare last night to our previous 3 games despite not being at our best in those three games.
2. Slow - The loss last night was abhorrent, no question. But almost virtually the same blokes we are calling slow now were flying to an 8-3 win loss and sitting in the top 4 at the bye last year. In fact, I'd argue we have improved our leg speed with Moo and Dutchy. As I said in earlier post, space through workrate and systems/positioning creates time and "speed". Thats what we aren't doing at the moment IMO.

As I said, I'm as gutted as anyone and I am sure our players, coaches and  staff are also. Let's all take a chill pill and see what the  the response is next week. If we bounce back strongly, that's a true indication of character and culture today.

2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #86
what I see coming is another game where we play an opponent motivated and who will likely be coming off a tough match win or lose.

History has taught me we are about to go through two additional terrible losses.

I'm not peddling this loss we had to have crap but we'll see how they respond.
With the utmost respect brother, history has absolutely zero to do with we do next week or the week after that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #87
If you can watch the game again (not sure many will)
Mate I would rather poke myself in the eyes with hot sticks.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #88
We are going to have poor games from time to time - but the team looked out of form and tired.

I'm not especially worried about things - there is alot of upside i.e., Cripps not hitting the scoreboard, midfield cohesion being the two main ones.

But the stage was firmly set against us and the lads need to rest up and respond in the best possible way next week.


Re: AFL Rd 5 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #89
With the utmost respect brother, history has absolutely zero to do with we do next week or the week after that.
all good gi2c and respectfully have a think about what we've dished up over the years vs how we have been travelling thus far this season.

We don't look fit.

Our game plan looks suspect and for want of another way to put it, we just don't look like we are up to competing week in and week out.

The wins have masked some pretty ordinary efforts and we still struggle against teams that turn up competitively. 

We'll see how it goes.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson