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Topic: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast (Read 15410 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #15 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Saad, Motlop and hopefully Fogarty coming into the team will help.
Dropping this game is not an option - either is two rucks.
TDK is more aerobic and faster across the ground than the bulk of the oppositions rucks and many of the opposition KPPs, he doesn't decrease either our pace or our aerobic capacity, he actually stretches opposition capabilities by increasing our total tall mobility.

If there is a run and carry problem, or chasing tackling issue, it's not from having our two rucks playing. A huge problem Friday night was that our SFs gave us stuff all tackles, Fantasia was tops with 3, Owies and Durdin just 1 a piece. How can it be that opposition score so heavily from turnovers on our HFF yet three SF players have just 6 tackles between them? Kennedy had more than them combined, and our next best was BigH!

It's untenable that you have three players basically not contributing, something is drastically wrong with our SF setup, and Fogarty isn't that much better than them but he's an arm and a leg ahead of what's currently on offer.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #16 –
Did our MC overreact to some misfortunes? We had some close losses but they were really misfortunes or bad officiating that cost us more than once while stats continued to look pretty good in most areas. Now in the space of just a couple of weeks, a few tweaks and all the numbers have slide to the point last Friday we had almost no winnings areas.

The tweaks haven't helped they may have actually hurt.

We had a few discussions here a couple of weeks back, when Kennedy was made sub, that we seemed to be making some odd decisions relating to the MC and match day tactics. In effect we seemed to have willingly disrupted a winning formula to try and patch underperforming areas of the team, and in doing so it feels like we ended up pulling down the whole house. The part that was good is now waning under the strain of trying to bridge gaps, and we are left with almost no winning areas at all.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #17 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Saad, Motlop and hopefully Fogarty coming into the team will help.
Dropping this game is not an option - either is two rucks.
Like it or not Pitto is the no 2 ranked ruckman in the comp. Filter for Rucks and watch the magic happen.

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2024
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Like it or not Pitto is the no 2 ranked ruckman in the comp. Filter for Rucks and watch the magic happen.

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2024
Yes because he gets most minutes in there doesn't make him the better ruck imo.
TDK is a ruck not a forward just like H is a forward not a ruck and Young is a back not a ruck.

TDK is being played out of position. No matter who the ruck is (despite TDK being the superior ruck) todays game does not suit two rucks - we have lost past 80% of games with two rucks. Not sure how much more blatant it can get.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #19 –
Quote from: LP – on
Did our MC overreact to some misfortunes? We had some close losses but they were really misfortunes or bad officiating that cost us more than once while stats continued to look pretty good in most areas. Now in the space of just a couple of weeks, a few tweaks and all the numbers have slide to the point last Friday we had almost no winnings areas.

The tweaks haven't helped they may have actually hurt.

We had a few discussions here a couple of weeks back, when Kennedy was made sub, that we seemed to be making some odd decisions relating to the MC and match day tactics. In effect we seemed to have willingly disrupted a winning formula to try and patch underperforming areas of the team, and in doing so it feels like we ended up pulling down the whole house. The part that was good is now waning under the strain of trying to bridge gaps, and we are left with almost no winning areas at all.

Voss explained that Kennedy and Hewett being the sub is part of our strategy to manage player workload.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #20 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Voss explained that Kennedy and Hewett being the sub is part of our strategy to manage player workload.
So the strategy is wrong, that's still an MC issue isn't it?

If it's not the MC, then who or what is it?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #21 –
As painful as it was, I just watched the Fluffy Ducks and Go Dees games again.
Similar errors/worrries in each game:
* Failed/limp tackles.
* After a fast start and opponents make changes to address our start, we do not make changes.
* Ordinary mid/forward connection.
* With the exception of Owies, so little from small forwards.
* Not getting enough from Charles' abilities beyond FF.
* Cruelled by injuries to key personnel.
...and so on.

To beat GCS:
(IMHO)
* Drop non-hackers/contributors - Durdin, Fantasia, O Hollands.
* Reward consistent good form from players in the Magoos, specifically - Binns, Cowan. Binns must shake his head and wonder what is up, especially when he sees how little the above three are providing. Commit and invest in the kid with consistent games.
* Tackling: Too many blokes failing to commit to the tackle of an opponent. Too timid. Between the lugholes. The failure of some to commit the body to the tackle is embarrassing. Poor intent.
* Safe. To beat GCS we need boldness... run, carry. Can't be terrified to make a mistake against this mob.
* Coaching:  FFS do something when the opposition is countering well our plan. Imagination. We've got blokes who have taken the field in the past two weeks who are quick, but this ability is not being utilized. Cincotta is one of the quickest blokes at the club, having him as a lockdown defender only is a waste. Fear/safe coaching. He and Boyd need more license to take the game on... Charles also, the bloke is uncanny, let him into the midfield at times. Develop more blokes who can run through the midfield - Cowan is another bloke who can be be given moments there. Okay, Williams didn't make it as a midfielder, but persisting with him as a high forward and going through the midfield at times is worth trying. Expand the dimensions of our midfield, keep the GCSs guessing.
* Run with: Chugga seems to be our only run with and does a good job unless his opponent is quick... then he's too slow. Cincotta? Cowan? Williams? Let's play more blokes to their strengths.
*Above the shoulders: Where's the boldness, run, hunting, hunger for the contest, intense tackling pressure, confidence, mongrel???
* Changes: IN: Binns, Cowan, Motlop, Saad. Out: Durdin, Fantasia, O Hollands, Carroll.
(If Weiters doesn't come up, Young in). Give Jack M more time to get his calves 100% right.

If you keep doing what you've always done you'll keep getting what you've always got. Throw out the stubbornness and initiate flexibility. Learn that lesson from Fluffy Ducks/John Longmire.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #22 –
Great assessment & suggestions Baggers.  Copy needs to go to CFC coaches and AFL media

cheers Ab

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Williams didn't make it as a midfielder, but persisting with him as a high forward and going through the midfield at times is worth trying.

A couple of open-field tackles that Williams stuck in the forward line suggest that he has much more to offer in that role than either Durdin or Fantasia or both.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #24 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
A couple of open-field tackles that Williams stuck in the forward line suggest that he has much more to offer in that role than either Durdin or Fantasia or both.

He was terrible for much of the game but his last quarter was OK.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #25 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He was terrible for much of the game but his last quarter was OK.
Williams offered way more effort, aggression and pressure than some of the others for most of the game, but when you have two or three around you offering nada you can be made look like a goose.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #26 –
Quote from: LP – on
Williams offered way more effort, aggression and pressure than some of the others for most of the game, but when you have two or three around you offering nada you can be made look like a goose.

Williams 3 tackles, 13 pressure acts
Fantasia 3 tackles, 13 pressure acts
Owies 1 tackle, 11 pressure acts
O. Hollands 1 tackle, 20 pressure acts
E. Hollands 3 tackles, 21 pressure acts
Durdin 1 tackle, 11 pressure acts.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #27 –
We've talked through the foibles of just relying on the stats before, the AFL definition of things like pressure act or contest as used by Champion Data are so rubbery you often just have to be within 3 or 4 metres of the ball carrier. That's the main reason one rating system can give a player BoG while another often suggests they were mediocre.

So I'm happy to stick with my earlier assessment.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #28 –
Problem with all those players is not what they are doing which is minimal, its more what the opposition player is doing who plays on them. eg You stick Williams forward then the opposition coach is going to run his best rebounders off him, Flanders had 37 touches last week playing from half back and even running forward, if I'm Hardwick I know who I am sending to play on Williams this week....

Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #29 –
until we stop this long bomb game style either from fullback or into F 50 entry we are sitting ducks ,voss and Co need to change especially our f50 entries lower the eyes