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Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #165 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Amazing that the same people that were so outspoken about our issues laying with the previous coach are now adamant that it's the players. The hypocrisy is just a little nauseating TBH.

If you're having a crack at me you're wide of the mark PI2C.

No I'm not, that is exactly you....and your x2 Baggers.

Actually we're trying to point out to you that the issue is much bigger than just the Senior Coach, but you just seem unable to expand your thinking beyond Ratts/MM.

And I'm trying to explain to you that you're a hypocrite! No offence of course. ;)
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #166 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Amazing that the same people that were so outspoken about our issues laying with the previous coach are now adamant that it's the players. The hypocrisy is just a little nauseating TBH.

If you're having a crack at me you're wide of the mark PI2C.

No I'm not, that is exactly you....and your x2 Baggers.

Actually we're trying to point out to you that the issue is much bigger than just the Senior Coach, but you just seem unable to expand your thinking beyond Ratts/MM.

In that respect PI2C is certainly not alone, in fact judging by the posts on here and the comments from other supporters at yesterday's game his opinion is in the majority.
In my view it's lazy, clubs with cultural problems continually turn over senior coaches and make decisions popular with members, supporters and sponsors, it's the easy way.
It almost always leads to mediocrity and failure.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.
 

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #167 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Amazing that the same people that were so outspoken about our issues laying with the previous coach are now adamant that it's the players. The hypocrisy is just a little nauseating TBH.

If you're having a crack at me you're wide of the mark PI2C.

No I'm not, that is exactly you....and your x2 Baggers.

Actually we're trying to point out to you that the issue is much bigger than just the Senior Coach, but you just seem unable to expand your thinking beyond Ratts/MM.

And I'm trying to explain to you that you're a hypocrite! No offence of course. ;)

If you can't see that Ratten failed then there's no point arguing.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #168 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Amazing that the same people that were so outspoken about our issues laying with the previous coach are now adamant that it's the players. The hypocrisy is just a little nauseating TBH.

If you're having a crack at me you're wide of the mark PI2C.

No I'm not, that is exactly you....and your x2 Baggers.

Actually we're trying to point out to you that the issue is much bigger than just the Senior Coach, but you just seem unable to expand your thinking beyond Ratts/MM.

And I'm trying to explain to you that you're a hypocrite! No offence of course. ;)

If you can't see that Ratten failed then there's no point arguing.

If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF. With a bit of tail wagging the dog at our club under those circumstances he might not have done too badly. Coaches at our club, for some reason, don't seem to have control of things as they should unfortunately. Hence  a cleanout is needed all the way done the line from the board down though the administration, coaching staff and some playing staff.

Mick's method of team selection was so much different at Collingwood than it is here. He it became identical to Ratten. Makes me wonder how much control the coach has in that regard.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #169 –
Quote from: laj – on


If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF. With a bit of tail wagging the dog at our club under those circumstances he might not have done too badly. Coaches at our club, for some reason, don't seem to have control of things as they should unfortunately. Hence  a cleanout is needed all the way done the line from the board down though the administration, coaching staff and some playing staff.

Mick's method of team selection was so much different at Collingwood than it is here. He it became identical to Ratten. Makes me wonder how much control the coach has in that regard.

I am of the opinion the club should have worked harder in the '11'12 trade period to shape up the list.

The reason being is that the important people (and myself) thought the club was in a position to challenge.

On reflection, only the three changes seems a bit ridiculous.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #170 –
Quote from: LanceRomance – on
Quote from: laj – on


If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF. With a bit of tail wagging the dog at our club under those circumstances he might not have done too badly. Coaches at our club, for some reason, don't seem to have control of things as they should unfortunately. Hence  a cleanout is needed all the way done the line from the board down though the administration, coaching staff and some playing staff.

Mick's method of team selection was so much different at Collingwood than it is here. He it became identical to Ratten. Makes me wonder how much control the coach has in that regard.

I am of the opinion the club should have worked harder in the '11'12 trade period to shape up the list.

The reason being is that the important people (and myself) thought the club was in a position to challenge.

On reflection, only the three changes seems a bit ridiculous.

Three things shape a list, recruiting, as you've basically said, coaching and culture. If one of them isn't right then you won't be winning premierships. or much else.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #171 –
Quote from: laj – on
If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF.

I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.
It's worth remembering that the team who denied us a PF had won the wooden spoon the year before and finished 11th in 2009, yet WC finished 2 1/2 wins ahead of us after the home and away rounds.
Dale Thomas and Jarryd Roughead were both taken as priority picks and have both played in Premiership teams, Hawthorn got another priority pick in 2005.
Teams can and do improve rapidly after a period in the lower regions of the ladder but Carlton hasn't mastered the process.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #172 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.

As you have done with Malthouse.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #173 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.

As you have done with Malthouse.

No.
I haven't said that Malthouse has succeeded, what I am saying is that I believe that his record suggests that he's a good coach and if we can ever get our systems and administration right he's capable of delivering, I think our list is too deficient to expect success in the next two or three years and surely Ratten must take some responsibility for that.
Ratten had 5 years during which Judd won a Brownlow and three B&F's and Fevola kicked 99 goals, Malthouse does not currently have that luxury and won't in the foreseeable future, there is more pain to come.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #174 –
Even the players are saying in interviews this feels like the lowest we have been in their time at the club.

For reference listen to 1AWs recent interview, where I believe he likened things at the club right now equal to the worst it has been in his eleven years.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #175 –
Quote from: LP – on
Even the players are saying in interviews this feels like the lowest we have been in their time at the club.

For reference listen to 1AWs recent interview, where I believe he likened things at the club right now equal to the worst it has been in his eleven years.

Walks must have a short memory, I was at Docklands the day that North beat us by 20 goals and at the MCG with 16,000 other hardy souls the day we lined up with Ian Prendergast on Pavlich and Chris Bryan as our first ruck.
A loss to Melbourne, or any other team, was no more than what was expected in those days, in fact I can remember one loss to Melbourne which had our cheer squad in raptures.
Things are not good right now, but they aren't terminal.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #176 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: laj – on
If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF.

I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.
It's worth remembering that the team who denied us a PF had won the wooden spoon the year before and finished 11th in 2009, yet WC finished 2 1/2 wins ahead of us after the home and away rounds.
Dale Thomas and Jarryd Roughead were both taken as priority picks and have both played in Premiership teams, Hawthorn got another priority pick in 2005.
Teams can and do improve rapidly after a period in the lower regions of the ladder but Carlton hasn't mastered the process.

Winning games is a good start to define success. We did alot better under Ratts than every other coach combined since David Parkin. Not saying he gets 10/10 for success but sh1t it's been alot better than anyone else we've had. Don't worry about coaches with previous good coaching records, I just want to see what success they have at Carlton. Under Ratts our bar, (make finals, win a final etc) was set each year. He achieved them all and we got better each time until injuries cruelled that last season. Problem comes down to the culture. A bad culture is a coach killer. Ratts easily got the closest but was still short and it got him in the end. No one else is getting close.

West Coast were 2 1/2 games ahead in 2011 because we just went through the motions in that last game against St.Kilda. It was touch and go right up to round 21.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #177 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: LP – on
Even the players are saying in interviews this feels like the lowest we have been in their time at the club.

For reference listen to 1AWs recent interview, where I believe he likened things at the club right now equal to the worst it has been in his eleven years.

Walks must have a short memory, I was at Docklands the day that North beat us by 20 goals and at the MCG with 16,000 other hardy souls the day we lined up with Ian Prendergast on Pavlich and Chris Bryan as our first ruck.
A loss to Melbourne, or any other team, was no more than what was expected in those days, in fact I can remember one loss to Melbourne which had our cheer squad in raptures.
Things are not good right now, but they aren't terminal.

You might be confusing a bad result with low moral and confidence, I think 1AW was talking about the low as a whole not just a bad game

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #178 –
@laj

And just to add to that Jim, taking your chances and kicking goals will aid in winning matches.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #179 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: LP – on
Even the players are saying in interviews this feels like the lowest we have been in their time at the club.

For reference listen to 1AWs recent interview, where I believe he likened things at the club right now equal to the worst it has been in his eleven years.

Walks must have a short memory, I was at Docklands the day that North beat us by 20 goals and at the MCG with 16,000 other hardy souls the day we lined up with Ian Prendergast on Pavlich and Chris Bryan as our first ruck.
A loss to Melbourne, or any other team, was no more than what was expected in those days, in fact I can remember one loss to Melbourne which had our cheer squad in raptures.
Things are not good right now, but they aren't terminal.

You might be confusing a bad result with low moral and confidence, I think 1AW was talking about the low as a whole not just a bad game

You could be right there LP.
What was crystal clear at the game yesterday was summed up in a couple of moments for me.
In one of them a high ball came into Melbourne's forward line and Rowe had the choice whether to contest it or leave Simpson one on two, he chose to suck back and stay with his man when clearly he needed to go.
Maybe he's just not a good footballer and makes bad decisions, but maybe he was following team rules, it's impossible for us to know either way but the end result was a Melbourne goal.
The other was Gibbs' lazy, unacceptable effort standing a mark in the last quarter when the game could still have been won, it was as if he'd conceded defeat and the last time I saw that was one day years ago when Walks gave up on a chase against Hawthorn.
For whatever reason the team is playing without initiative, confidence or conviction, even given the obvious lack of quality footballers, and if Malthouse can't at least get them keen for a contest he won't have my support beyond this season.
I don't expect miracles from this current squad, but I expect pride in performance.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.