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Topic: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match) (Read 156492 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #180 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
In one of them a high ball came into Melbourne's forward line and Rowe had the choice whether to contest it or leave Simpson one on two, he chose to suck back and stay with his man when clearly he needed to go.

Maybe he's just not a good footballer and makes bad decisions, but maybe he was following team rules, it's impossible for us to know either way but the end result was a Melbourne goal.

You see for me this comes back to the MC and player development.

Rowe has been a career ruckmen who played one season as a CHF in a 2nd tier comp before we drafted him as a ruck forward. Now after missing one season due to ill health, and playing sporadic matches since, we have him playing as a KPD with stuff all career experience in the role at any level.

Watson languishes in the 2s having spent his entire junior career as a KPD.

Casboult was a career junior ruckmen who played one season as a forward based on which we drafted him as a developing forward. Melbourne's defence is about as shallow as we can hope to come up against, actually weakened at the moment by Roos playing Frawley and Watts forward, and yet at best you could rate Casboult's game as fair.

Both Casboult and Rowe got some touches but contributed nothing much to the clubs fortune yesterday. That is because they are being played in roles they are not suited for, and were not noted for, over the bulk of their playing career. Casboult's best game at Preston came in a final in which he played ruck and floated forward to kick goals, not as a finals forward. Rowe's best games in SA occurred in similar circumstances. Neither are capable AFL rucks, which diminishes their value greatly, but Rowe has shown more in the ruck.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #181 –
@LP

Agree. Casboult is just not mobile enough to be a successful forward. Rowe is doing as well as you could expect from a guy not used to playing as a KPD. It's case of 'needs must' though. CFC has previous in this area though, and others have had their careers ruined and even held to ridicule and scorn.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #182 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@LP

Agree. Casboult is just not mobile enough to be a successful forward. Rowe is doing as well as you could expect from a guy not used to playing as a KPD. It's case of 'needs must' though. CFC has previous in this area though, and others have had their careers ruined and even held to ridicule and scorn.

When was Casboult given the square for a game?? Answer - never. Not sure how you make this call.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #183 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: laj – on
If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF.

I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.
It's worth remembering that the team who denied us a PF had won the wooden spoon the year before and finished 11th in 2009, yet WC finished 2 1/2 wins ahead of us after the home and away rounds.
Dale Thomas and Jarryd Roughead were both taken as priority picks and have both played in Premiership teams, Hawthorn got another priority pick in 2005.
Teams can and do improve rapidly after a period in the lower regions of the ladder but Carlton hasn't mastered the process.


Would we have picked Thomas or Roughead....doubtful.....

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #184 –
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@LP

Agree. Casboult is just not mobile enough to be a successful forward. Rowe is doing as well as you could expect from a guy not used to playing as a KPD. It's case of 'needs must' though. CFC has previous in this area though, and others have had their careers ruined and even held to ridicule and scorn.

When was Casboult given the square for a game?? Answer - never. Not sure how you make this call.

By watching him lumber around yesterday. He is slow and often looks spent.
I would support the idea of the club developing him as a ruck man who can fill in forward. Put him in the NBs for a while to focus on that.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #185 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
When was Casboult given the square for a game?? Answer - never. Not sure how you make this call.

By watching him lumber around yesterday. He is slow and often looks spent.
I would support the idea of the club developing him as a ruck man who can fill in forward. Put him in the NBs for a while to focus on that.

Yesterday we saw the guy that many Carlton players and officials pegged as flying during the pre-season, the guy who was about to make a real impact on the game!

A game full of rabbits maybe.

If that is the best he can do against a club that has almost a VFL defence he has not much to offer! Meat is a king among the timid, the Lord of the Flys! As for learning to ruck, he pretty much spent his first 3 seasons at Preston doing just that!

Even more damning;
On Friday Roos broadcast on radio that he thought his defence was more than good enough to hold Carlton's forward line allowing him to play Frawley forward. That is what he did and that is what actually happened! Even with 24hrs of advanced warning our forwards and MC could not organise any impact on the game, it doesn't get any more damning than that!

Last week BumberT laughed at our ruck division, this week Roos goaded our forwards!

We are a joke!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #186 –
Aggressive trading no one is safe. Walker, Gibbs, Murphy etc. We must establish a young and talented spine you can find the rest, Ellard, Curnow etc are proof of that. Mids are dime a dozen. I honestly believe that a team can be successful with gun KPP and a so-so midfield. 
What happened to my old profile?????

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #187 –
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #188 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: blue4life – on
Quote from: laj – on
If he failed then the others must be terrible. He's been by far the most successful of our coaches since David Parkin. Might not have been perfect but for a bloke on his first senior coaching gig he got the club back on track. Was a free kick away from a PF.

I guess it depends how you define success, if you set the bar low enough it's impossible to fail.
It's worth remembering that the team who denied us a PF had won the wooden spoon the year before and finished 11th in 2009, yet WC finished 2 1/2 wins ahead of us after the home and away rounds.
Dale Thomas and Jarryd Roughead were both taken as priority picks and have both played in Premiership teams, Hawthorn got another priority pick in 2005.
Teams can and do improve rapidly after a period in the lower regions of the ladder but Carlton hasn't mastered the process.


Would we have picked Thomas or Roughead....doubtful.....


Would it have mattered?
When we got them, all of Walker, Murph, Gibbs, Kruez, were guns of their time and of their peers.

So, the question has to be asked..........what if we got the Cooneys, Pendelbrys, Selwoods and who ever else your heart desires???? 
Would that have automatically made a difference to our team and where we are at now?

I'm not convinced. I think our Culture and lack of proper coaching/development, has stuffed our players. 

Selwood is a great player but had a fantastic team around him his whole career. He's now arguably the best player in his team. BUT, would he have been as good in our team ??
I'd just about bet my left nut that if any of them had been drafted by a better club, let alone Geelong, we'd all be marvelling at how good they are.

We've stuffed them. We've failed them. After so long in the system and without the support around them it's hardly any wonder that they've lost heart.

It's an excuse of sorts, but I cant bare to watch them anymore myself. I cant handle lack of effort. Pride in myself alone would drive me to go beyond for my team but looking from the outside, it seems our " guns " are beyond that. :-[
Too little and Way too late. Pull your fingers out boys!!

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #189 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.


Fair point...I dont have the stats but didnt Malthouse take Collinwgood to the bottom before making them a force again...took about 9-10 years to win a flag although'he did have them in the finals
after 3 years from memory.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #190 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.


Fair point...I dont have the stats but didnt Malthouse take Collinwgood to the bottom before making them a force again...took about 9-10 years to win a flag although'he did have them in the finals
after 3 years from memory.

Took over in 1999 and got a spoon. GF in 2002.

The rebuild started before he came along so the strategy was set with Shaw happy to get games into kids.

Different scenario at Carlton where we don't know what the screw we're doing and have no strategy.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #191 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.


Fair point...I dont have the stats but didnt Malthouse take Collinwgood to the bottom before making them a force again...took about 9-10 years to win a flag although'he did have them in the finals
after 3 years from memory.

That's how they got the pick for Daisy wasn't it - hence his nickname Thomas the Tank Engine.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #192 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.


Fair point...I dont have the stats but didnt Malthouse take Collinwgood to the bottom before making them a force again...took about 9-10 years to win a flag although'he did have them in the finals
after 3 years from memory.

Took over in 1999 and got a spoon. GF in 2002.

The rebuild started before he came along so the strategy was set with Shaw happy to get games into kids.

Different scenario at Carlton where we don't know what the screw we're doing and have no strategy.

Fair enough IOT.....I do remember now Shaw was told he was going at seasons end  but went with the kids and stareted the rebuild pre Mick.
Agree we have no strategy and the club is rudderless...

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #193 –
Quote from: bigblue – on

Would it have mattered?
When we got them, all of Walker, Murph, Gibbs, Kruez, were guns of their time and of their peers.

So, the question has to be asked..........what if we got the Cooneys, Pendelbrys, Selwoods and who ever else your heart desires???? 
Would that have automatically made a difference to our team and where we are at now?

I'm not convinced. I think our Culture and lack of proper coaching/development, has stuffed our players. 


You need to factor in the other draft picks taken by successful clubs and compare it to our performance outside the top half dozen in the draft.
Geelong are the most obvious example of a club getting top quality lower in the draft, Johnson, Enright, Chapman, Hunt and Ling to name a few, Collingwood got Dane Swan at pick 50 or so.
Carlton has failed dismally on that score so our reliance on Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and Walker is way too heavy, we just don't have the support staff.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: RD 4 : BLUES Defeated By Demons (Pathetic & Pitiful Post-Match)

Reply #194 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
Our list not being up to it does not automatically make Malthouse the right choice going forward.


Fair point...I dont have the stats but didnt Malthouse take Collinwgood to the bottom before making them a force again...took about 9-10 years to win a flag although'he did have them in the finals
after 3 years from memory.

Took over in 1999 and got a spoon. GF in 2002.

The rebuild started before he came along so the strategy was set with Shaw happy to get games into kids.

Different scenario at Carlton where we don't know what the screw we're doing and have no strategy.

Fair enough IOT.....I do remember now Shaw was told he was going at seasons end  but went with the kids and stareted the rebuild pre Mick.
Agree we have no strategy and the club is rudderless...

That's the thing. The club isn't capable of setting the agenda. They are stuck in the 90s believing they can buy success but have nowhere near the resources to do that like a Collingwood or a West Coast or an Adelaide do anymore.

Mick has proven his judgement can be clouded with his inability to pick people at the club who won't tow his line.

For Mick to succeed, we need people in the club who can ensure the sideshows that are happening now won't continue to happen. Mick cannot set up our football department. He's had his go and it's in disarray. Why the frig should we let him continue the circus?

Throw money at a decent administrator who can get us making the right decisions and getting our checks and balances in places then screw off half the board. Let them sort out the mess from recruiting to memberships.

If Mick is going to be the man, we're going to need a bigger investment that his current contract is going to cost in payouts. So either sack him or put in the extraordinary support he had at Collingwood and let him do his thing then or get someone who can work in a war zone.