Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #180 – April 15, 2015, 10:40:22 am Quote from: ItsOurTime – on April 15, 2015, 09:12:43 amWe've been bashed around the head pretty badly already this week. We're going to need a spirited performance, a limp effort and it is going to be complete mayhem.I remember when we got smashed by Essendon early last year with possibly one of the most limp-wristed performances I'd ever seen from a Carlton team. We got justifiably barrelled in the media all the next week, for the team to be preaching about making things right the following weekend.....which ended with an even more limp-wristed performance against Melbourne. Yep, this mob is known for turning things around....lazy, spineless fecks they are. Quote Selected Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:59:26 am by Brettie
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #181 – April 15, 2015, 11:15:20 am Quote from: DJC – on April 15, 2015, 10:27:42 amA conservative approach is fine for most folk but probably not an AFL footballer in their prime.I listened to Doc Larkin's assessment and he was gobsmacked by the description of the injury - a subluxation when it was clearly a major dislocation with serious damage - and the proposed treatment. He was concerned that not operating would mean that Thomas would be highly likely to have more problems.Sholders are or have been an issue with a few of our blokes; Judd, Jamison, Walker, Murphy, Gibbs, etc, not to mention Ablett.As someone who has suffered a sublux injury, I have never had an operation, and my shoulders have never been the same, however I have also sought the advice from an Orthopaedic surgeion and he adivsed that they would unlikely be rectified by surgery and that often intensive Physio therapy is a better outcome unless it becomes a serial problem.Think back to Andrew Walker. He had recurring issues with his until he had an operation but he also has issues over head these days.Realistically, surgery isnt a great outcome for any injury, its better used as a worst case scenario. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #182 – April 15, 2015, 11:26:25 am Quote from: Brettie – on April 15, 2015, 10:40:22 amI remember when we got smashed by Essendon early last year with possibly one of the most limp-wristed performances I'd ever seen from a Carlton team. We got justifiably barrelled in the media all the next week, for the team to be preaching about making things right the following weekend.....which ended with an even more limp-wristed performance against Melbourne. Yep, this mob is known for turning things....lazy, spineless fecks they are.The players are behind Malthouse... Well they need to show it.Malthouse is behind the players... We will see at selection, he needs to show it in press conferences as well.Murphy says the leaders need to stand up... He needs to show itIf they are truly united, hurting and behind the coach, another performance like the first two will spell the end for the coach and several players.We wont win, but we should be able to be super competitive against this "brave" side. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #183 – April 15, 2015, 11:32:56 am Quote from: deags – on April 14, 2015, 09:49:10 pmShoulder surgery is very hit and miss.As part of my med student training I spent 3 months working in Beijing at a top orthopaedic hospital there.One of the surgeons had recently returned from the US after doing 2 years of training, specifically in shoulder repairs. One day I was asking hime about it and asked him what was the main thing he learned, he laughed and said "don't have shoulder surgery, it doesn't work". Obviously he was being overdramatic for comedy sake, but the results are not great.I'm not sure if Thomas had had shoulder problems in the past, but I wouldn't advocate surgical management for a shoulder after the first dislocation unless there was some serious strucural damage involved.I know several people who've had shoulder surgery for issues ranging fro minor wear to complete frozen shoulders, mostly coming from rowing, cricket or football injuries. All of them tell me they would not have done it if they had known the sort of issues that would develop. Problems included further frozen shoulders, nerve damage, withered muscles, loss of sensations, loss of strength, feelings of instability, arthritis and pain.From what I have gleaned going into the surgery they thought it was going to be a fix, a good as new scenario. It was a fix but not even close to good as new. It's was a fix like a hip replacement is a fix for someone who can no longer walk, sure they walk again but it's not the same as new!The irony is that for several of my friends the surgery was described as a faster alternative to intense physiotherapy but not better than physiotherapy, so they really had the surgery as a sort of shortcut! A couple of them who had the surgery, and due to complications, ended up doing more physiotherapy than they would have done if they didn't have the surgery! Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #184 – April 15, 2015, 11:56:16 am On that note I have a mate who deals with all sorts of specialists every day. His thoughts are that there are two types of doctors, those who look after patients and those who look after themselves. Mostly if you go to see a surgeon he'll recommend surgery as that how they make their money. The amount of surgery in Aus compared to Japan is staggering. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #185 – April 15, 2015, 12:01:29 pm Quote from: Professer E – on April 15, 2015, 10:11:48 amI just want a fair dinkum, honest 4 quarter effort.If we don't at least get that Prof, the last shred of credibility for this playing group will be gone - at least for me it will. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #186 – April 15, 2015, 12:06:01 pm Isn't he having surgery at the end of the year? So it's less about if but when. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #187 – April 15, 2015, 12:51:37 pm It would be nice to hear from DOA about this? Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #188 – April 15, 2015, 01:16:32 pm Quote from: ItsOurTime – on April 15, 2015, 12:06:01 pmIsn't he having surgery at the end of the year? So it's less about if but when.That's my understanding IOT.A conservative approach now so that he can get back on the field ASAP and hope he doesn't have more issues. He will have the operation at the end of the year and have another limited pre-season. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #189 – April 15, 2015, 07:26:09 pm Quote from: Thryleon – on April 15, 2015, 11:15:20 amAs someone who has suffered a sublux injury, I have never had an operation, and my shoulders have never been the same, however I have also sought the advice from an Orthopaedic surgeion and he adivsed that they would unlikely be rectified by surgery and that often intensive Physio therapy is a better outcome unless it becomes a serial problem.Think back to Andrew Walker. He had recurring issues with his until he had an operation but he also has issues over head these days.Realistically, surgery isnt a great outcome for any injury, its better used as a worst case scenario.I have had both shoulders dislocate. First one was playing g grade amateurs. i then re-dislocated it in a fight. The second one was when our neighbour went O/S and his car alarm kept going off for days. Police said they could do nothing and if I touched it they'd charge me. Finally got the RACV to come and dismantle the alarm after contacting the guy's work (it was a work vehicle). Then his dumbass missus comes home and gets the RACV to get the car going again. Later that night the alarm started again. I dislocated my shoulder punching the couch repeatedly in frustration. Cut a long story short my shoulders are now really strong through years and years of weights, so sometimes physio is the best thing. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #190 – April 15, 2015, 09:40:23 pm Docherty Jamison TuohyRowe Henderson YaranWalker Gibbs SimpsonJones Casboult EverittBuckley Watson ArmfieldWood Judd MurphyIntCripps Whiley Carrozzo BellIn Walker Buckley Watson Armfield Cripps WhileyOut Menzel (inj) White (inj) Ellard, Tutt, Smith, Curnow (all omitted)On Notice: Henderson, Murphy, Carrazzo, Jones Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #191 – April 15, 2015, 09:44:50 pm Quote from: DontgoJuddy – on April 15, 2015, 09:40:23 pmDocherty Jamison TuohyRowe Henderson YaranWalker Gibbs SimpsonJones Casboult EverittBuckley Watson ArmfieldWood Judd MurphyIntCripps Whiley Carrozzo BellIn Walker Buckley Watson Armfield Cripps WhileyOut Menzel (inj) White (inj) Ellard, Tutt, Smith, Curnow (all omitted)On Notice: Henderson, Murphy, Carrazzo, JonesNot bad DGJ...reckon Cripps wont play with his bad back and Tutt will get another game, Walker, Armfield and Whiley are certs to play IMO.....Watto and Buckley 50/50 Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #192 – April 15, 2015, 10:55:53 pm Quote from: DontgoJuddy – on April 15, 2015, 09:40:23 pmDocherty Jamison TuohyRowe Henderson YaranWalker Gibbs SimpsonJones Casboult EverittBuckley Watson ArmfieldWood Judd MurphyIntCripps Whiley Carrozzo BellIn Walker Buckley Watson Armfield Cripps WhileyOut Menzel (inj) White (inj) Ellard, Tutt, Smith, Curnow (all omitted)On Notice: Henderson, Murphy, Carrazzo, JonesThe problem is that with an injury or two, our lack of depth is exposed. I'd like to see changes along the lines you have outlined but the replacements have done bugger all. I would keep Curnow and drop Jones.If Buckley does come in, I reckon he'll be the sub. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #193 – April 16, 2015, 10:33:24 am Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on April 15, 2015, 09:44:50 pmNot bad DGJ...reckon Cripps wont play with his bad back and Tutt will get another game, Walker, Armfield and Whiley are certs to play IMO.....Watto and Buckley 50/50Does he have a bad back?Thought it might just be part of the ongoing pantomime because he pulled out late in the WCE game for Ellard. Quote Selected
Re: 2015-Rnd 3 Carlton vs Essendon Reply #194 – April 16, 2015, 12:23:33 pm Quote from: DontgoJuddy – on April 15, 2015, 09:40:23 pmDocherty Jamison TuohyRowe Henderson YarranWalker Gibbs SimpsonJones Casboult EverittBuckley Watson ArmfieldWood Judd MurphyIntCripps Whiley Carrozzo BellIn Walker Buckley Watson Armfield Cripps WhileyOut Menzel (inj) White (inj) Ellard, Tutt, Smith, Curnow (all omitted)On Notice: Henderson, Murphy, Carrazzo, Jones Like the previous 2 posters, I think this is probably not far off the mark. Walker, Armfield and Whiley have done enough and deserve a go. Watson is a chance, especially after his effort against Essendon last year, Cripps is a good chance if he is fit. Buckley would add pass and dash from defence.However, I am not sure Ellard will be dropped: he is a favourite and he did a very good job negating Hurn last week for 3 quarters. That is more than most of his team mates can claim. Whether he is the answer against a different defence is a good question.Curnow's form has been ordinary, but he did do the job against Richmond. This may save his bacon.Tutt may get the chance because he has had only 1 senior appearance and he does offer a good kick at goal. However, if he is going to get so few possessions he will not be a permanent fixture. It will be interesting to see how the Match Committee is thinking, especially with Walker able to fill this role.Our key defenders really need some confidence. Last year they controlled Essendon's tall forwards easily. However, neither has any form or confidence to bring into this game, while their opponents think they are God after last week.Last week Wood got killed. If that happens again, we are toast. Bellchambers is a lot less likely to towel up Wood, but he has had 2 excellent games, while Wood is struggling. Essendon don't have much to give Bellchambers a rest, but Casboult has n9ot been rucking well either. In theory Casboult should be able to beat Ambrose or Daniher, but I would hate to bet that way on present form.Similarly Hurley is in career best form at CHB. Casboult is the sort of player to worry him, but Casboult's form is not close to career best.The last couple of weeks have shown an Essendon who really want the ball more than their opponents and are physically aggressive. If we show the same desire and aggression we will beat them. It is, after all, one of the defining characteristics of Malthouse coached teams. Unfortunately we have not been showing the major characteristics of Malthouse coached teams: desperation , desire, aggression and on field discipline. If we can match them in these areas, then things could be very interesting. Quote Selected