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Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #60
New coach, new outlook, new result.... nah! The same BS will be deilivered ::)
2024... Moir of the same to come

 

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #61
Long time reader, first time poster, reserved seat member since early 90’s, I go to 14-16 games per year. I feel compelled to post because of some of the rubbish I am hearing in the media. Everyone is getting blamed for our current predicament, from the coach to the leaders to the list managers to the Board. Not easy to determine what the truth is. So I thought back to a glorious night on September 8 2013 at the G where I sat in a massive crowd and watched us come back and win an Elimination Final against Richmond. We played exhilarating football in the second half, and with some exciting young players we looked forward to good times over the next few years. In the car on the 90 minute trip home we actually discussed what we need to press for top 4 in the next year or two. How have we got from there to where we are now?
So I searched today and found the team from that night, just 16 months ago. Of the 22, we still have 15 on our list (D Armfield, T Bell, E Curnow, B Gibbs, L Henderson, M Jamison, C Judd, M Kreuzer, T Menzel, M Murphy, K Simpson, Z Tuohy, A Walker, R Warnock, C Yarran). While Tom Bell has clearly improved, and possibly Ed Curnow, it is hard to make an argument that any of the others have improved since 2013 (apologies to Juddy – hard to improve from the level he started at!). This is a blight on our player development.
Of the 7 players no longer on the list, we as a club decided to delist 3 of them (J Garlett, A McInnes and M Robinson), 2 have retired (N Duigan, H Scotland), and two were lost to free agency (E Betts, J Waite). Any half decent club would be able to cover the retirements, which are beyond our control. Scotland was an excellent player for us, but I think the recruitment of Docherty was very good, and he has shown that he is stepping up to that role. Duigan was a bit player, and his retirement can hardly be regarded as the cause of our demise. The delistings of Garlett and Robinson haven’t helped us, but I can understand where the club was coming from, although we seem to handle such incidents worse than every other club (in terms of the outcomes for the club).
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #62
Well said Jack Burton! This guy CLEARLY knows what he's talking bout!
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #63
Long time reader, first time poster, reserved seat member since early 90’s, I go to 14-16 games per year. I feel compelled to post because of some of the rubbish I am hearing in the media. Everyone is getting blamed for our current predicament, from the coach to the leaders to the list managers to the Board. Not easy to determine what the truth is. So I thought back to a glorious night on September 8 2013 at the G where I sat in a massive crowd and watched us come back and win an Elimination Final against Richmond. We played exhilarating football in the second half, and with some exciting young players we looked forward to good times over the next few years. In the car on the 90 minute trip home we actually discussed what we need to press for top 4 in the next year or two. How have we got from there to where we are now?
So I searched today and found the team from that night, just 16 months ago. Of the 22, we still have 15 on our list (D Armfield, T Bell, E Curnow, B Gibbs, L Henderson, M Jamison, C Judd, M Kreuzer, T Menzel, M Murphy, K Simpson, Z Tuohy, A Walker, R Warnock, C Yarran). While Tom Bell has clearly improved, and possibly Ed Curnow, it is hard to make an argument that any of the others have improved since 2013 (apologies to Juddy – hard to improve from the level he started at!). This is a blight on our player development.
Of the 7 players no longer on the list, we as a club decided to delist 3 of them (J Garlett, A McInnes and M Robinson), 2 have retired (N Duigan, H Scotland), and two were lost to free agency (E Betts, J Waite). Any half decent club would be able to cover the retirements, which are beyond our control. Scotland was an excellent player for us, but I think the recruitment of Docherty was very good, and he has shown that he is stepping up to that role. Duigan was a bit player, and his retirement can hardly be regarded as the cause of our demise. The delistings of Garlett and Robinson haven’t helped us, but I can understand where the club was coming from, although we seem to handle such incidents worse than every other club (in terms of the outcomes for the club).
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…

Welcome JB. Good post. ;)
Keep the Faith

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #64
The loss of Betts and Waite to free agency is a clear result of investing a massive component of our salary cap on Dale Thomas. This was a club decision, reportedly driven hard by M Malthouse.
If we try to remove emotion and look at the facts, I can’t understand how anybody can say M Malthouse doesn’t have to shoulder the blame for this. To those that say it’s not his fault because the list is so bad, we still have 15 players who won a final 16 months ago (most of which he should have improved between then and now), and have lost 2 players to bring in his pet player, who has given us nothing, and 2 others who annoyed him but have gone on to make significant contributions at other clubs. And don’t get me started on Jeremy Laidler…
As far as I know, the money offered to Waite by Carlton was the same as that offered by North, North however offered the extra year (unconditional), our extra year had conditions. So I am not sure how you can say Waite was flicked by MM to free $ up for Thomas. For starters  Thomas was already there when Waite left. Waite even went to MM's house and told him he was staying then back peddled. Betts was prepared to stay for the same money he was on, Carlton pulled the offer altogether because his Manager c#$ted in the final negotiation meeting and made an absolute pig of himself.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #65
So you're saying Swann's ego got in the way of Betts staying? Swann didn't like his manager so he ditched betts?

Also Waite obviously left because he couldn't stand Malthouse the tosswad.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #66
Players gone under MM - Waite, Betts, Garlett, Robinson, Hampson.

Before that - Jacobs, Grigg.

Jacobs and Betts the clear losses. The excitement and ex-factor of Waite and Garlett could have been handy with the mongrel of Robinson.

There were issues ofcourse but we got little for those blokes in return which is a worry!!!

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #67
You forgot Fevola.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #68
Players gone under MM - Waite, Betts, Garlett, Robinson, Hampson.

Before that - Jacobs, Grigg.

Jacobs and Betts the clear losses. The excitement and ex-factor of Waite and Garlett could have been handy with the mongrel of Robinson.

There were issues ofcourse but we got little for those blokes in return which is a worry!!!

Of those players gone, the only one that is a win is Hampson.

Our media management is appalling.  The lead up to last year's trade period is absolutely ridiculous in terms of what got into the public domain killing our trade leverage.

The repeat performance showing we havent learned our lesson are the Judge, and Trigg's comments re the coaching position of our footy club.

#amateurhour
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #69
Very interesting post from Jack Burton. I too am a long time member, go to 14+ games per year and was also very excited by the potential move upwards after that great win.

My thoughts are we played a great game but many of the players mentioned have gone backwards since then - to name some: Henderson, M Jamison, M Kreuzer, M Murphy, A Walker, R Warnock. Some due to injury, some due to age and some both. Others have been able to simply maintain their good form - give me a couple more Chris Judds & Kade Simpsons please. Consistently play well and can be replied on week after week. How I miss players like Michael Sexton - someone who can hold down CHB week after week and very rarely let you down.

What I'm also looking for is the newer players to really step up. Guys like T.Menzel I  saw back in 2013 with real potential but has not (yet?) developed into a match winner. Maybe Menzel & Cripps will prove me wrong but more importantly I'd like to see a couple of key position players really develop. I do not see any chance of a Buddy Franklin 'appearing' in our current list.

In summary - our problem is cattle on the track (not MM) and the development of the players (of which MM has some input of course).

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #70
From what I gathered from MAccas latest Injury Update, Hendo, Cripps, Simmo and possibly Walker all back this week.

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #71
From what I gathered from MAccas latest Injury Update, Hendo, Cripps, Simmo and possibly Walker all back this week.
Yay?
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #72
Double yay and hopefully Kruezer

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #73
Big yip.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: Round 8 Preview - Carlton v Geelong

Reply #74
all the  same names are back ,how about we mix it up and play a youngster to.