Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 1906639 times) previous topic - next topic
tonyo, LP and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4680 –
Quote from: LP – on
Before people take a side in this debate....

I think that taking sides is the problem....
Why does there have to be a side.
Both 'teams' are right into the blame game here, and both lay the reponsibility for the assassination at the other.
On one hand there is a fair bit of "He got what  he deserved", "Live by the sword etc" from one side, and in reponse to that the other group is taking these comments and "naming and shaming" and as a result putting a target on their backs.

I suspect there's also a fair bit of doubt about some of the things being posted online, as tampering with video and photograph has reached a new levels of deception, especially with some of the AI stuff we're seeing.
It's hard to know what is real and what is not.
It's hard to know whether quotes attributed to people are accurate, or half truths....or just made up to make them look bad.

A lot of this still seems a bit odd and the full story of motivation, or whether there were others involved is still to be determined.

We tend to think of this 'left' and 'right' debate as a straight line spectrum
To me it's more like a "ring"
On one side of the ring are sensible people with open minds and a fair bit of tolerance to opposing points of view.
You can go 'left' or you can go 'right' but eventually you'll reach the other side of the ring...and that's where the 'haters' and 'nutjobs' live.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4681 –
The MAGA crew went the earlier crow on the latest assassin, claiming trans, claiming leftie, etc., etc., and it turns out he is another fundamentalist Christian gun nut and the exact opposite of what MAGA claim, he's basically one of their own, yet another one!

No wonder RedTrump has gone relatively quiet, but can you make sense of the various war cries?

Is someone in the hard right lunitocracy betting that the biggest losers in a civil war will be the minorities?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4682 –
Quote from: LP – on
The MAGA crew went the earlier crow on the latest assassin, claiming trans, claiming leftie, etc., etc., and it turns out he is another fundamentalist Christian gun nut and the exact opposite of what MAGA claim, he's basically one of their own, yet another one!

Is he though?
I don't think we know yet what his make-up is.
It sounds from initial reports that it's a pretty complex and sometimes conflicting one.
Were his beliefs a rebellion to his parental upbringing.
Was he recently radicalised.
While we're aware of his parent's affiliations and beliefs, it's not clear what his political beliefs were other than he was triggered by the things Kirk was saying.
It's very much a wait and see.
The difference to the Trump assassination attempt is that Robinson is still alive so there's a chance to find out "why?"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4683 –
Im going to ignore the politics for a moment.

We have raised a society where "you cant say that".

Is this potentially the reaction?  People feel a bit cornered so they take matters into their own hands?

Im not sure.  Thats not to condone these actions, but once upon a time words were not violence like they are today.  Does that mean meeting words with violence could be justified?

I dont necessarily think so, but people who might act like this by shooting someone they disagree with might?


The conversation needs to be a bit more philosophical than catigorical.  Sometimes you can entertain an idea without accepting it.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4684 –
Quote from: LP – on
The MAGA crew went the earlier crow on the latest assassin, claiming trans, claiming leftie, etc., etc., and it turns out he is another fundamentalist Christian gun nut and the exact opposite of what MAGA claim, he's basically one of their own, yet another one!

No wonder RedTrump has gone relatively quiet, but can you make sense of the various war cries?

Is someone in the hard right lunitocracy betting that the biggest losers in a civil war will be the minorities?

From the latest reports I think you have gone too early now lol.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4685 –
At this point in time, taking the sum total of information available, the only reasonable conclusion is that the shooter was politically incoherent, either because the information is unreliable (for a host of reasons) or because he was a confused young man with no clear political position.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4686 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: LP – on
Before people take a side in this debate....

I think that taking sides is the problem....
Why does there have to be a side.
Both 'teams' are right into the blame game here, and both lay the reponsibility for the assassination at the other.
On one hand there is a fair bit of "He got what  he deserved", "Live by the sword etc" from one side, and in reponse to that the other group is taking these comments and "naming and shaming" and as a result putting a target on their backs.

I suspect there's also a fair bit of doubt about some of the things being posted online, as tampering with video and photograph has reached a new levels of deception, especially with some of the AI stuff we're seeing.
It's hard to know what is real and what is not.
It's hard to know whether quotes attributed to people are accurate, or half truths....or just made up to make them look bad.

A lot of this still seems a bit odd and the full story of motivation, or whether there were others involved is still to be determined.

We tend to think of this 'left' and 'right' debate as a straight line spectrum
To me it's more like a "ring"
On one side of the ring are sensible people with open minds and a fair bit of tolerance to opposing points of view.
You can go 'left' or you can go 'right' but eventually you'll reach the other side of the ring...and that's where the 'haters' and 'nutjobs' live.

Now ya talkin' Principal LODS.

When we're glued to, or rusted onto, a political ideology we'll shoehorn just about any event, instantly, to suit our heavy bias/prejudice. And in the 'fullness of time' likely come out looking like a goose.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4687 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
At this point in time, taking the sum total of information available, the only reasonable conclusion is that the shooter was politically incoherent, either because the information is unreliable (for a host of reasons) or because he was a confused young man with no clear political position.

I suspect that’s a fairly common characterisation of most school shooters.

It’s interesting that the engravings on the cartridge cases that were originally identified as pro trans, pro gay and anti-fascist are mostly video game references and, if anything, anti-gay.  The video game references suggest divorced from reality.

The degree of difficulty in pulling off a fatal hit at that range shouldn’t be underestimated, particularly when the shooter was in an elevated position relative to the victim.

Robinson is clearly a very competent marksman.  The photographs of him at ranges and with different weapons, as well as the engraved cartridge cases, suggest an unhealthy interest in firearms, at least by our standards.

Throw in his religion, video game fascination, educational experiences, and the increasingly demeaning and dehumanising political rhetoric and actions, and you have a problem.

"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4688 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
From the latest reports I think you have gone too early now lol.
From what I've read so far MAGA have f0rked up the early claims regarding transgender, et al., and rather than admitting a mistake they are now just going harder repeating the unsupported claims. There is already a bunch of published and obviously fake videos, manifestos, doctored photographs, etc., etc.. It's a repeat of the MAGA Birther conspiracy tactics, when you are wrong double down in spite of the glaring evidence to the contrary!

Other actors in this debate, like the NRA, seem to be actively and deliberately muddying the waters, it's truly bizarre behaviour.

There is no high ground on either side of this debate, both sides are equally wrong and that is the primary take away point.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"