Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #30 – August 15, 2016, 02:08:46 pm Quote from: shadesy – on August 15, 2016, 11:55:24 amLolIn our losing Streak:Saints - Hickey 2 Goals, in BestsGWS - Mumford - 2nd BOGCollingwood - Grundy 2 goals, Second BOGAdelaide - Jacobs 3 goals, in BestsHawks - Ceglar 2 goals, McEvoy 1Saints x 2 - Hickey 1 goalBrisbane - Archie Smith, first ever goal.Lets not froget what Tippet and Sinclair did in round 2 (7 goals) and Goldy did.We get smashed in the Ruck every week, time to cut Krueze loose and see what Phillips can do as the Number 1.Don't care what ruckman we drop as long as we drop one. Having an extra runner rather than a lumbering ruckman is surely a no-brainer. Kreuzer for years has been a consistently better player when he's the only ruckman. Not necessarily tapout-wise but lifts 3 cogs around the ground including tackles. Got 11 of those against Geelong. You can always win clearances against the losing ruck. That's what we miss from our rucks, around the ground output. Kreuzer at least improved in that aspect in the 2nd half and got 14 touches but is generally crap when he shares. Phillips was useless and touched it 5 times. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #31 – August 15, 2016, 02:27:45 pm Which of the serious finals contenders run with only one genuine ruck option?It seems there are very few examples that support your argument, just look at last weekend!Hawthorn - McEvoy/CeglarSydney - Nankervis/NaismithAdelaide - O'Brien/JenkinsGeelong - Stanley/Smith + BiclavsGWS - Mumford/Lobb + PatonWC - Naitanui/LycettBulldogs - Roughead/BoydNorth - Goldstein/Daw Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #32 – August 15, 2016, 02:53:15 pm Quote from: LP – on August 15, 2016, 02:27:45 pmWhich of the serious finals contenders run with only one genuine ruck option?It seems there are very few examples that support your argument, just look at last weekend!Hawthorn - McEvoy/CeglarSydney - Nankervis/NaismithAdelaide - O'Brien/JenkinsGeelong - Stanley/Smith + BiclavsGWS - Mumford/Lobb + PatonWC - Naitanui/LycettBulldogs - Roughead/BoydNorth - Goldstein/DawSides are different and you select them to your strength but because it's the done thing to pick two. Anyway, Daw only plays when Waite is out. Boyd is a key forward, didn't pay 1 miillion a year to ruck, Jenkins is mostly a key forward. Sydney will play Tippett when he's back, Paton will always offer something good as a forward. Hawthorn are key positionless due to illness and injury but last year had Hale, who was a good as a key forward as he was a ruck. Using your names there has thoroughly convinced me we use one ruckman and Casboult, same as those sides above. Thank you for confirming what I think.2 rucks is ok if they are mobile and do alot around the ground, goddamn friggen useless if they do nothing as you're one man down the whole game. At Carlton, who in their right mind would play two rucks when you can pick another runner and increase your run around the ground. Anyone who knows anything at all about football Casboult can take up the slack as he has done before for a few years pretty well, and where he plays some of his best footy in that dual role. Happy to lose a few tapouts for better round the ground output. Many sides win the clearances against losing rucks.What would you prefer, two lumbering useless ruckmen or one and an extra runner? By having one you'll increase both the output of Kreuzer, Casboult as well as giving us good run with the extra midfielder. What do you think? You couldn't possibly say two useless lumbering ruckman, if you do, well...... Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #33 – August 15, 2016, 03:59:59 pm Quote from: laj – on August 15, 2016, 02:53:15 pmSides are different and you select them to your strength but because it's the done thing to pick two. Anyway, Daw only plays when Waite is out. Boyd is a key forward, didn't pay 1 miillion a year to ruck, Jenkins is mostly a key forward. Sydney will play Tippett when he's back, Paton will always offer something good as a forward. Hawthorn are key positionless due to illness and injury but last year had Hale, who was a good as a key forward as he was a ruck. Using your names there has thoroughly convinced me we use one ruckman and Casboult, same as those sides above. Thank you for confirming what I think.2 rucks is ok if they are mobile and do alot around the ground, goddamn friggen useless if they do nothing as you're one man down the whole game. At Carlton, who in their right mind would play two rucks when you can pick another runner and increase your run around the ground. Anyone who knows anything at all about football Casboult can take up the slack as he has done before for a few years pretty well, and where he plays some of his best footy in that dual role. Happy to lose a few tapouts for better round the ground output. Many sides win the clearances against losing rucks.What would you prefer, two lumbering useless ruckmen or one and an extra runner? By having one you'll increase both the output of Kreuzer, Casboult as well as giving us good run with the extra midfielder. What do you think? You couldn't possibly say two useless lumbering ruckman, if you do, well......You keep pushing that Casboult bit in bold but it's bogus. It has delivered us massive disappointments time and time again, we rob our only useful contested mark inside F50 to have him ruck poorly around the ground. It's never worked ever because as a ruck Casboult has almost no idea other than jump and hit. He gets out-bodied by the small and medium sized players, and has zero second effort when the ball hits the ground.All those others in bold are ruckmen turned forwards, and Tippett when in the team has played ruck all year not forward, and he does so in combination with Sinclair. Tippett hasn't played as a forward once this year, and never as a solo ruck! In terms of the Dawks last year, McEvoy and Hale effectively divided ruck duties right down the middle. I agree they are dead lucky they had Hale, because without him they would have been cooked. But Hale was clearly the best ruck forward in the competition last season, better than Boyd, better than Patton, perhaps only Cameron is his equal, but rightly so GWS don't ruck Cameron anymore.If you want to fix the forward line, find a better forward option. If you want to fix the midfield division fix the midfielders. Don't shoot yourself in the foot in the ruck hoping to cover for some other deficiency, it just doesn't work.As for Casboult, what use is a 200cm x 100kg clunking target who can only deliver when he's played as the support act! We need a bloke who can take the top job, not play as the second banana! FFS, Liam Jones takes the heat off him and he performs, holy cow that is an indictment! Quote Selected Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 07:32:09 pm by LP
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #34 – August 15, 2016, 07:18:09 pm Don't want to stop the argument, but you'll have to shout extra loud for me o Sunday: surgery on Friday and I won't be available. The stent has to stay in for a week to be effective, so that is it.We are not on TV so I won't see anything of the game. That frustrates me, but hopefully we get a few more games on free to air next year. We will probably do something special for Walker and Jamison, as this is our last home game for the year.I wonder if anyone else will decide to give it away? Simmo definitely isn't. I won't be voting again either, as I will have no idea what happens, even if we do surprise and win.I mentioned this earlier, but I would rest beth Cripps and Weitering, as neither of them are going to get huge amounts out of playing injured, even though they both probably want to play.I would also like to see some less conservative placings: I like being difficult for our opponents to predict. I really hate it when we are VERY predictable t the opposition, which we have been often this year. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #35 – August 15, 2016, 07:27:46 pm Why not have Krueze FF for the game and have Phillips No. 1 ruck and use the Bolt to pinch hit in the ruck?Just saying.... Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #36 – August 15, 2016, 07:42:25 pm Because Kreuz forgets how to play footy when he gets forward of centre. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #37 – August 15, 2016, 08:01:09 pm Kreuzer and Cripps are similar... super oversized mids that cant play forward Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #38 – August 15, 2016, 08:23:44 pm The ruckman playing KP forward theory....the Brett Ratten era was full of it and it drove me insane......FF and CHF are specialist positions......end of story. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #39 – August 15, 2016, 08:55:58 pm Quote from: LP – on August 15, 2016, 03:59:59 pmYou keep pushing that Casboult bit in bold but it's bogus. It has delivered us massive disappointments time and time again, we rob our only useful contested mark inside F50 to have him ruck poorly around the ground. It's never worked ever because as a ruck Casboult has almost no idea other than jump and hit. He gets out-bodied by the small and medium sized players, and has zero second effort when the ball hits the ground.All those others in bold are ruckmen turned forwards, and Tippett when in the team has played ruck all year not forward, and he does so in combination with Sinclair. Tippett hasn't played as a forward once this year, and never as a solo ruck! In terms of the Dawks last year, McEvoy and Hale effectively divided ruck duties right down the middle. I agree they are dead lucky they had Hale, because without him they would have been cooked. But Hale was clearly the best ruck forward in the competition last season, better than Boyd, better than Patton, perhaps only Cameron is his equal, but rightly so GWS don't ruck Cameron anymore.If you want to fix the forward line, find a better forward option. If you want to fix the midfield division fix the midfielders. Don't shoot yourself in the foot in the ruck hoping to cover for some other deficiency, it just doesn't work.As for Casboult, what use is a 200cm x 100kg clunking target who can only deliver when he's played as the support act! We need a bloke who can take the top job, not play as the second banana! FFS, Liam Jones takes the heat off him and he performs, holy cow that is an indictment!^this 100% Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #40 – August 15, 2016, 09:10:53 pm Quote from: LP – on August 15, 2016, 03:59:59 pmYou keep pushing that Casboult bit in bold but it's bogus. It has delivered us massive disappointments time and time again, we rob our only useful contested mark inside F50 to have him ruck poorly around the ground. It's never worked ever because as a ruck Casboult has almost no idea other than jump and hit. He gets out-bodied by the small and medium sized players, and has zero second effort when the ball hits the ground.All those others in bold are ruckmen turned forwards, and Tippett when in the team has played ruck all year not forward, and he does so in combination with Sinclair. Tippett hasn't played as a forward once this year, and never as a solo ruck! In terms of the Dawks last year, McEvoy and Hale effectively divided ruck duties right down the middle. I agree they are dead lucky they had Hale, because without him they would have been cooked. But Hale was clearly the best ruck forward in the competition last season, better than Boyd, better than Patton, perhaps only Cameron is his equal, but rightly so GWS don't ruck Cameron anymore.If you want to fix the forward line, find a better forward option. If you want to fix the midfield division fix the midfielders. Don't shoot yourself in the foot in the ruck hoping to cover for some other deficiency, it just doesn't work.As for Casboult, what use is a 200cm x 100kg clunking target who can only deliver when he's played as the support act! We need a bloke who can take the top job, not play as the second banana! FFS, Liam Jones takes the heat off him and he performs, holy cow that is an indictment!You're talking crap. i dismantled your argument completely. Spin won't change anything.For 4 years it hasn't been bogus. We play our best with one ruck two key forwards and Casboult backing up. Be shown for the last 4 years. He marks well around the ground, better than anyone else we have, and it improves his game up forward, not to mention improving Kreuzer's game. Been that way since 2012. Our rucks are crap around the ground hence why a Kreuzer/Casboult ruck combo has work best. One ruck and Casboult was one of the few things that did work well last year in a miserable season. Levi and Everitt were able to hit the scoreboard and Levi did a decent job when he rucked too. Did a decent job as permanent 2nd ruck early in the year with Wood. You know it, I know it unless your eyes were shut. Worked well on the odd occasion we tried it this year. We actually won. Means we can pick and extra runner. What would your prefer, 2 lumbering ruckman or one ruck, help from Casboult and and an extra runner. Not a tough question for anyone that knows anything about football in regards to Carlton.If you, or anyone else, haven't noticed that then sorry you have failed to follow football as results back that up. So spare me your spin on the subject. Quote Selected Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 09:22:00 pm by laj
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #41 – August 15, 2016, 09:14:12 pm Quote from: BluePhantom – on August 15, 2016, 07:27:46 pmWhy not have Krueze FF for the game and have Phillips No. 1 ruck and use the Bolt to pinch hit in the ruck?Just saying....Just ruck Kreuzer most of the day, help from Casboult, and pick and pick an extra runner. Kreuzer is a dreadful key forward. Quote Selected Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 09:17:24 pm by laj
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #42 – August 15, 2016, 10:06:24 pm Quote from: laj – on August 15, 2016, 09:14:12 pmJust ruck Kreuzer most of the day, help from Casboult, and pick and pick an extra runner. Kreuzer is a dreadful key forward.Casboult's days as back-up ruckman ended with his knee injury - for this season at least.While I wouldn't say Kreuzer is a dreadful key forward, he certainly isn't anywhere near adequate. Of course, that begs the question; who plays as key forward if Casboult is in the ruck?At worst, the Kreuzer-Phillips combination has broken even with opposition ruck combinations with the exception of hitting the scoreboard when resting forward. There's no reason to change our ruck combination but we do need to find a way to get more value from them when resting. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #43 – August 16, 2016, 08:03:35 am Quote from: DJC – on August 15, 2016, 10:06:24 pmAt worst, the Kreuzer-Phillips combination has broken even with opposition ruck combinations with the exception of hitting the scoreboard when resting forward. There's no reason to change our ruck combination but we do need to find a way to get more value from them when resting.I think the apparent free scoring of opposition ruckmen gives some supporters an impression that it is normal and expected from ruckmen. But we are the exception, most of those opposition ruckmen do not kick goals on a regular basis. Excluding Tippett who is clearly a better than average KPF most rucks kick very few goals, and this season even Tippett scored 25% of his goals in one game against us!Our problem isn't the ruck division, our problem is the KPFs and KPDs. We are generating more I50s than most teams but scoring less, we've had several games where despite losing we held a large positive I50 bias. But we don't score, and then teams take the ball to the other end and score relatively easily. Even last weekend, Brisbane stated the game scoring at 50% of I50s for their first six goals. You can't even blame the midfield for that, but certainly ball use from mids and HBFs is a problem.As for blokes slamming the ball on their boot, it's usually a symptom of nobody running past to receive or nobody placing an effective shepherd or block. Quote Selected
Re: Rd 22: Pre Game asking for a PP: Carlton vs Melbourne Reply #44 – August 16, 2016, 07:03:59 pm Quote from: DJC – on August 15, 2016, 10:06:24 pmCasboult's days as back-up ruckman ended with his knee injury - for this season at least.Correct. Let's see how quickly he's filling out the admissions forms at the Epworth after the last game! Quote Selected