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Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #30 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Bring back the death penalty, Dupas, Knight, Bryant etc etc...this maniac from a couple of days ago.., sex offenders, drug dealers all gone...or give the Police more licence to open fire on these nutters instead of having to face an inquisition every time they discharge their weapons.

I'm not convinced that bringing back the death penalty is the answer.  However, I think that persons convicted of heinous crimes should forfeit all rights; no ability to take court action, no access to educational opportunities, the Internet, visitors, parole, etc.  Lock them up and throw away the key.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #31 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Bring back the death penalty, Dupas, Knight, Bryant etc etc...this maniac from a couple of days ago.., sex offenders, drug dealers all gone...or give the Police more licence to open fire on these nutters instead of having to face an inquisition every time they discharge their weapons.
Vote EB for PM
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
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2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #32 –
Is NOT voting EB for PM a heinous crime ?
If it is I guess I'll have to vote for him...
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #33 –
In the case of this nondescript, Bryant and Knight, it's simply a matter of the police saying 'We did it in self defense,' and NO ONE would bar an eyelid.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #34 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
In the case of this nondescript, Bryant and Knight, it's simply a matter of the police saying 'We did it in self defense,' and NO ONE would bar an eyelid.

No matter how 'right' it is, the cop still has to live with the fact that he's taken a human life. Something that is not easy to deal with.
 

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #35 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Bring back the death penalty, Dupas, Knight, Bryant etc etc...this maniac from a couple of days ago.., sex offenders, drug dealers all gone...or give the Police more licence to open fire on these nutters instead of having to face an inquisition every time they discharge their weapons.

I am fast becoming a death penalty supporter for some crimes as well.

And before some start screaming " it's not a deterrent ", you don't bring it in as a deterrent but it's a punishment.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #36 –
Quote from: sandsmere – on
I am fast becoming a death penalty supporter for some crimes as well.

And before some start screaming " it's not a deterrent ", you don't bring it in as a deterrent but it's a punishment.

Couldn't agree more. I don't care about the deterrent factor, but the millions of dollars it costs to house these stains on humanity could be better spent. Put a needle in their arm and save us all a lot of money and heartache. 

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Navy Maven – on
Couldn't agree more. I don't care about the deterrent factor, but the millions of dollars it costs to house this stains on humanity could be better spent. Put a need in their arm and save us all a lot of money and heartache.

While we are at it, why haven't the Apex gang kids been deported?
If they have come in on asylum seeker visa's and committed crimes, surely they should be deported similar to Dustin Martins father.

That would be a big deterrent.
Send three or four home and watch the problem go away.

Save a lot of tax payer dollars and let police get on with other issues.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #38 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I suspect you're on the right track Thry.  More needs to be done to prevent people becoming a threat to themselves, their families and the general public.

I don't know what the answer is but I suspect that it's not expecting troubled or broken people to look after themselves.

Education DJC.

People are very quick to point out the ills of Religion (to which there are many), however Christ did state to treat others as you want to be treated.  I think if all humans at a baseline followed that one rule, we would live in a much better place for it.

I'm not promoting religion as the answer for anyone who is going to jump on me, although I am a Christian.  Bill and Ted even stated "Be Excellent to each other" if you want to ignore the Christian element, which is fine too.  We all benefit from being Excellent to each other.  Polite, curteous, non judgemental or supportive and list the rest of the positive ways to treat people here. 

The way we live our lives, is often in the negative headspace.  There was a movie called pay it forward, that was quite apt in regards to how people can really impact society positively.

At the end of the day, societal change starts with the individual.

Its the equality debate all over again too.  Simply treat everyone the same (how you would like to be treated in the same circumstances) and there you have it.  No more racism.  No more sexism.  Equality.  True equality. 

The death penalty is simply threatening people with the hell argument.  Some people are self destructive for reasons we cannot understand.  Usually because they were treated poorly to begin with.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #39 –
There are many questions and issues to be resolved here including the treatment and accommodation of the mentally ill, the justice and bail system, the acceptable actions of the police in terms of pursuing and apprehending people posing a threat, punishment v. deterrents etc. etc.

While all of this debate takes place and everyone gets comfortable with the eventual outcomes, we need short term measures implemented that keep innocent people as safe as possible whilst they lawfully go about their normal lives on our streets. Obviously safeguards would be needed to avoid the abuse of civil liberties by authorities, but IMO, our right to safe streets is paramount.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #40 –
Top post cookie.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #41 –
It costs Americans around $2m to execute someone I think.

The legal process is exhaustive - to try to ensure they're not killing the wrong person.

Not saying we shouldn't do it but I am saying it's not like it's much cheaper... unfortunately. Police should have put the bullets between his eyes rather than the arm maybe.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #42 –
This is getting into some dangerous territory and i apologize in advance if i piss anyone off.

What is a mental illness? They are difficult to diagnose and as a result can be 'faked' somewhat.
Recent comments about Hird suffering from PTSD is IMO an example of that.
Previously Gary Lyon was used as an example for suffering depression. Did he always suffer from it or was it brought on because he did the dirty on his best mates missus? Does it matter why it was brought on at all or does the fact he just has it bad enough and require sympathy and understanding? If he didn't cheat would he still have depression? I know someone who knows Gary personally and he gets extremely angry when anyone even suggests that Lyons condition isn't serious. Still, if its because of his own actions, does it deserve the same kind of respect/sympathy/help/understanding???

Similarly, does someone who willingly takes drugs yet refuses to change deserve the same treatment as someone who genuinely wants to turn their life around and kick their addiction get? An example of the first one could be someone like Ben Cousins. Does he deserve the amount of chances/help he gets or should we be harsher on him because of his mindset - eg i dont want to change.

Finally, this idiot this thread is about. I've heard he's an ice addict and suffering from mental problems. As a result of the ice? Does it matter? I'm sure whatever defense he uses will include some kind of leniency for being mentally ill.

Which leads me to my next question. If someone kills someone else and it is not an accident, in self defense or in war....the person essentially wanted to kill someone. If someone willingly kills someone you would suggest that there is something wrong with them.....even mentally unwell. So isn't EVERY murderer mentally ill? Do we extend that to rapists? People who steal cars??

Where is the line of being mentally ill? When is it crossed and what brought on the crossing?


Of course answers to the above question can be extended to the death penalty and if/when it should be applied.

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #43 –
Quote from: JonHenry – on
While we are at it, why haven't the Apex gang kids been deported?
probably because they are Australian citizens I'd guess.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Melbourne CBD Incident

Reply #44 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
There are many questions and issues to be resolved here including the treatment and accommodation of the mentally ill, the justice and bail system, the acceptable actions of the police in terms of pursuing and apprehending people posing a threat, punishment v. deterrents etc. etc.

While all of this debate takes place and everyone gets comfortable with the eventual outcomes, we need short term measures implemented that keep innocent people as safe as possible whilst they lawfully go about their normal lives on our streets. Obviously safeguards would be needed to avoid the abuse of civil liberties by authorities, but IMO, our right to safe streets is paramount.

That's nailed it Cookie.

The only question I have is are our streets less safe now than they were in the past?  From my own experience of violent incidents, I'd say that not much has really changed in the last 50 years, apart from police routinely carrying firearms.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball