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Re: JLT game 3

Reply #270 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
What a difficult balancing act with Weits. Our forward line is one of the worst, if not THE worst in the league so it's almost a case of necessity to play him there more often than you might otherwise want. Harry is a work in progress and will take time and Casboult is just an 'almost' player - takes a good mark from time to time... the end.

We'll have to get games into Harry but expectations will remain modest for his influence in games. Our midfielders and small / medium forwards will have to impact the scoreboard much more. I hope SOS2's form in the season proper improves on what he dished up in the JLT series.

Good summary there Baggers...Harry Mac is an interesting player, looks a bit lost at the minute but  I reckon his progress
will be similar to Daniher from Essendon and its a case of being patient and getting games into him...those expecting bags of goals and a young Kernahan type might have to temper expectations.
SOS2...might just have been cruising in the JLT games...think he will be value this season and our leading goalkicker.......if Palmer, Smedts and Pickett can give us something we might sneak a few more goals and at least be competitive..

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #271 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Good summary there Baggers...Harry Mac is an interesting player, looks a bit lost at the minute but  I reckon his progress
will be similar to Daniher from Essendon and its a case of being patient and getting games into him...those expecting bags of goals and a young Kernahan type might have to temper expectations.
SOS2...might just have been cruising in the JLT games...think he will be value this season and our leading goalkicker.......if Palmer, Smedts and Pickett can give us something we might sneak a few more goals
and at least be competitive..

Weiters and SOJ, as 2nd year players, will probably get 2nd year blues.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #272 –
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:

1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #273 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:

1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
It would be safe to say that strategy is not one endorsed by the coaching staff but rather one devised (on the run I'd imagine) by some of our less intelligent players.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #274 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:

1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.

We averaged 50+ I50s last year!

The problem seems to be poor scoring efficiency from I50, not an inability to get I50s.

For 2016 looking at I50 relative to the ladder, it's not perfect but if you do I50 For / Against you find the positive percentage will give a good indicator of ladder position. But even on that we are far from the worst, we had 1116 For / 1148 Against.

btw., The worst club in the AFL last season was Freo averaging 45+ I50s.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #275 –
Quote from: LP – on
We averaged 50+ I50s last year!

The problem seems to be poor scoring efficiency from I50, not an inability to get I50s.

For 2016 looking at I50 relative to the ladder, it's not perfect but if you do I50 For / Against you find the positive percentage will give a good indicator of ladder position. But even on that we are far from the worst, we had 1116 For / 1148 Against.

btw., The worst club in the AFL last season was Freo averaging 45+ I50s.

See point 2...

We do not hit up loose guys in our forward 50 and hit leading targets.

I call this the Josh Kennedy Syndrome. Poor guy lead and lead and lead and we used to kick it on Fevs head or Eddies head instead.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #276 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Bolton made sure that Weitering played on the competition's best forwards in his first season and he looked comfortable matched up with Franklin, the Riewoldts, Kennedy etc.  He has also looked comfortable leading into space as a forward.

I think that Weitering's development may progress more smoothly if he is able to focus largely on playing one position.  However, it's irrelevant whether that position is as a defender or a forward.  If he is to be used as a forward from time to time, I would prefer to see him starting there rather than being switched during the game.

One of the reasons Weitering was recruited is because he can play forward and back.

Hopefully, if our coach is as good as reported, then these two will have worked out a blueprint for Weitering for his entire career which incorporates the week to week.

In that open dialogue, Jacob would have identified what he wants to do, what role he sees himself performing in, and what KPI's he needs to meet to satisfy that criteria.  They would also have recognised that along with that, the team will have priorities that need to be met, in order for the team to achieve success, as well as the individual and that occasions will arise where roles will need to be played out of necessity, and provided the open dialogue is there, then both coach and player can tick that off and the world keeps spinning.  Some weeks, the KPI's will be met, and other weeks will be gap weeks where the player and coach will learn about how Jacob will need to develop his skills to satisfy all of the wants by coach, player and team.

Are we in the proffesional era??  this is where we are going and this is what I expect for not just Jacob, but each and all of our players moving forward.  A regular catchup where these sorts of things are discussed.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #277 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
See point 2...

We do not hit up loose guys in our forward 50 and hit leading targets.

I call this the Josh Kennedy Syndrome. Poor guy lead and lead and lead and we used to kick it on Fevs head or Eddies head instead.

That's fine, then your issue is efficiency, as long as it's clear we haven't a problem getting the ball into F50. Too many supporters believe our problem is mainly a midfield issue, getting more I50s won't help us. As you point out we burn the forwards and have been doing so for over a decade, and this is currently compounded by the reliance on Casboult to convert those times we actually deliver the ball correctly.

FWIW, highlighting our inefficiency even further, the Swans average was only marginally more than us at 56+ I50s a game.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #278 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:

1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.

Kicking in panic is the big problem. With the right players and the right set ups, smartly timed and placed kicks to the top of the goal square are as legitimate a goal scoring option as any other.

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #279 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Kicking in panic is the big problem. With the right players and the right set ups, smartly timed and placed kicks to the top of the goal square are as legitimate a goal scoring option as any other.

Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #280 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....

I hope so.

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #281 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....

You can already see us trying to move the ball more deliberately during play.  Where it falls over somewhat is that when the pressure builds, the players release option is to go long to a contest, and our players have historically had issues dealing with that inferred pressure and are prone to using this get out a little too frequently.

They will improve this in time, but until they do, expect to see the chaos ball more often than not.

Composure is something that is difficult to teach, but once learned will go a long way for us.  Its one reason not to be overly concerned about players getting caught in possession because as they gain composure under pressure, they will invariably get caught more frequently as there is less rush involved in trying to build the play appropriately.

Ive watched Hawthorn do similar.  They sometimes bomb away knowing that once it gets down there, the boys will lock it in and put the opposition on the back foot through their forward pressure.  I think thats the part we do the worst rather than anything else.  The ball seems to come back too easily rather than anything else.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #282 –
Quote from: shadesy – on
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:

1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
3. We recruit and retain forwards who can kick goals at AFL level.

I don't disagree with what anybody has said, but for mine we have a serious lack of talented forwards and it is that, as much as anything, that will hold us back this year. And I don't mean putting all your eggs in one basket, we need 4-5 players who can kick 25+ goals.

The issue we have with Weitering now is created by the massive hole we have on our list called 'Goal kicking forwards'. We have recruited a bunch of young guys to start filling this hole, but history tells you 1-2 at best will make it.

We still have Gorringe, Jones and KJ sitting on the list who were recruited to fill this hole, and I don't think there is a person on this site who can see any one of them playing anything other than occasional cameo. Which begs the question why are they still there, why didn't we cut our losses and take a punt on a mature aged rookie or 2 to try and fill the hole until Kerr/McKay are ready to make a serious impact [which is going to be 2-3 years best case]. 

Our inside 50 numbers are not that bad, but our conversion of i50's to scoring shots, and scoring shots into goals, is terrible as I have detailed in other threads. The teams with the most talented and deep forward line players [Adelaide / GWS / Hawthorn] convert their i50's into scoring shots about 50% of time, and convert 55% of those into goals. We convert only 40% of our i50's into shots, and convert 50% into goals. The skill level of your forwards, and the how many of them you have, will directly impact both these numbers significantly.

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #283 –
Bolton has already said it, but I agree with him, play Weiters back this year with the occasional qtr forward.

 Put him on the best opposition forward every week, let him learn from that and then from 2018 onward play him as a permanent forward. That's how I see it.

On a totally different note, I want to see Jaksch given a chance with an extended run (3-4 games) as a forward, in the seniors. He can't be any worse than Casboult or Jones, and surely ahead of Mackay at the moment. I hope his papers have not been prematurely stamped. I'm not saying he will make it, but I reckon he deserves a chance to prove it 1 way or another.
Mens sana in corpore sano - A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Navy, it's not just a color, it's an attitude !!!

Re: JLT game 3

Reply #284 –
Quote from: Amers – on
Bolton has already said it, but I agree with him, play Weiters back this year with the occasional qtr forward.

 Put him on the best opposition forward every week, let him learn from that and then from 2018 onward play him as a permanent forward. That's how I see it.

On a totally different note, I want to see Jaksch given a chance with an extended run (3-4 games) as a forward, in the seniors. He can't be any worse than Casboult or Jones, and surely ahead of Mackay at the moment. I hope his papers have not been prematurely stamped. I'm not saying he will make it, but I reckon he deserves a chance to prove it 1 way or another.
Couldn't agree more on KJ. Surely on the basis of a couple of ok pre season NB games he has to be given a shot to see if he can help the setup and structure of the forward line. With Gorringe injured, Jones underwhelming in his JLT appearance and McKay probably needing a few NB games under his belt to get his confidence up before playing up, it seems like the most sensible option we have.

If he doesn't get a gig now you would think he never would [barring total catastrophe], which begs the question what is he doing on the list then??