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Topic: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond (Read 67298 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #120 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Martin scared the crap our of our blokes all night, we have serious issues regarding the lack of physicality in the team, even Cascoult didnt want to mix it with Martin......what made it worse is that even a hacker like Vlastuin was pushing our blokes around...
Agree on the kids, they all showed something....Marchbank was very good and he will learn from the turnovers.....Pickett is class, just needs some better players around him to supply more footy to him...

Wouldnt mind a few more Matty Wrights in the team...can lay a tackle, kicks straight and gives you something every week.....

Yes, agree, especially on Wirght. Quickly becoming one of my faves.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #121 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
Baggers wrote :
Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys.

Let's hope so, the only experienced player who has worked out for us in the last decade has been Judd.
You make a very good point, Carlton is just not seen as a desirable destination for better class 100+ game players and that will probably remain the case until we show some genuine improvement.
Meanwhile we have to trust in youngsters, it's much more risky than established talent and our record at identifying quality kids leaves a lot to be desired.

Think we have a few nice young ones coming through. Thought there were a number of good efforts individually. Functioning as a team, well that's a different issue. Structure could've been better. Too tall in defence to start with. We just lacked run coming out and lacked run through the midfield. Our forward line of paper looks ok with Weitering, SOJ, Pickett, SPS, Wright and to a lesser extent Levi but if we can't get it in quickly enough to get one on ones then any forward line will look bad. We seem to lack the ability to balance both attack and defence. Tiges just rebounded way too easily through the corridor and had way too many one on one's because of it. That slaughtered us.

No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.
 

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #122 –
Quote from: laj – on
Think we have a few nice young ones coming through. Thought there were a number of good efforts individually. Functioning as a team, well that's a different issue. Structure could've been better. Too tall in defence to start with. We just lacked run coming out and lacked run through the midfield. Our forward line of paper looks ok with Weitering, SOJ, Pickett, SPS, Wright and to a lesser extent Levi but if we can't get it in quickly enough to get one on ones then any forward line will look bad. We seem to lack the ability to balance both attack and defence. Tiges just rebounded way too easily through the corridor and had way too many one on one's because of it. That slaughtered us.

No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.

Not sure why we give the ball to White coming off the half back line...turns it over every time he kicks on the run.....we miss Byrne and I'd be hoping Sheehan can play
this week and give us some reliable ball use off half back...

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #123 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Not sure why we give the ball to White coming off the half back line...turns it over every time he kicks on the run.....we miss Byrne and I'd be hoping Sheehan can play
this week and give us some reliable ball use off half back...

Agreed EB1, it's odd that.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #124 –
Quote from: laj – on
No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.

I  think White needs to spend the rest of his time at Carlton in the Northern Blues, but I think Thomas can still give us something.
Levi can join White in the VFL as far as I'm concerned, along with Jones, players like those won't take us anywhere.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #125 –
Quote from: Dominator_7 – on
Green shoots:
- Kreuz looked great
- Picket and SPS look like they ll give the side the zip it needs. They ve got bags oif tricks and pace to burn, and the tackling, WOW!
- Marchbank, Macredie and Plowman will be the cornerstone of our backline for the next 10 years
- Weiters up forward worked
- Young SOS impressed and could ve ended up with 4

Weeds:
- Until such time as this side moves past Thomas, White, Casboult and Sam Rowe,, we will never be a decent outfit. They are all dead set liabilities. I mean, if people are happy for Rowe and White to gift wrap the opposition 4-5 goals every week just because they 'try', then we really are up poo creek.
- Murphy and Gibbs will never be what we want them to be. They're 'cherry on top' midfielders, not the hardworking, down and dirty types they need to be.
- Skills still terrible. Cant remember the last time we were a decent side skills wise.

Good wrap up D7. Good reflection of last night and our current situation IMO.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #126 –
Quote from: laj – on
Tell me you're kidding. Any coach, commentator or anyone with any knowledge of the game knows kids need bigger bodies out there for leadership, direction and thee take more of the physical heat. Even the two new sides. GC and GWS, got big bodies in. Rebuilds do need some experience and big bodies. Key is having the right ones.

I am absolutely not kidding. If you want to be competitive right away, yeah that is true, but what do you think is going to happen, that other clubs are going to go around knocking our player out cold and getting suspended all over the place? No it is far more likely that the bigger bodied players out of the younger brigade will stand up and be men and lead their team mates.

The physical heat is rubbish also, Do you think a Jesse Hogan really gets much cut out? No, he is good enough to be elite so he gets that physicality against him and rightly so.

I openly say it goes against all convention, but I don't believe it is a requirement, rather an easily quoted statement.
I believe that GWS improvement come through their young players getting toward that 30-50 game mark where you start to feel confident you belong at this level much more than from the have bigger bodied players, those 4-5 players are just spread out. I think it is a long held belief that is wrong.

Now I don't think a group of 19 year olds will go about winning many games of football, no matter how talented, but I think a group of Under 23s can develop together without any older players.

And in an ideal mix (as I stated last transfer period), I would in fact bring in a few senior players anyway, but I would be bringing in 23-25 year old guns as I got rid of older.

I don't care how incredulous the statement sounds, I honestly believe our club would be better ditching all senior let's say 25+ players (except maybe Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo and Kreuzer and we should be replacing those guys also as soon as possible).

I don't think our results would actually be much worse I think our improvement would be much better and I think we would be better placed for next year. I know I would enjoy the football a lot more seeing we had drawn a clear path to success rather than the fluffing about the club seems to be doing the last 15 years.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #127 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
I don't care how incredulous the statement sounds, I honestly believe our club would be better ditching all senior let's say 25+ players (except maybe Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo and Kreuzer and we should be replacing those guys also as soon as possible).

Agree 100% with this.
Am happy to put up with mistakes from kids who are inexperienced and are still learning the caper.
The same old senior duds making the same old costly mistakes year in year out though ?.. Cmon!!! Enough is enough with that.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #128 –
Quote from: mateinone – on


I openly say it goes against all convention, but I don't believe it is a requirement, rather an easily quoted statement.

I think you'll find that the great majority of Premiership teams have at least a couple of 150+ game players.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #129 –
Quote from: blue4life – on
I think you'll find that the great majority of Premiership teams have at least a couple of 150+ game players.

They do and I said I would bring probably a couple of top line 23-25 year olds also.
But players are harder, faster stronger at a younger age than ever before and not only that, very few teams have ever played with no 150+ game players, so premiership teams will have all met this criteria. It doesn't make it a necessary ingredient though.

If 99% of all teams have had a couple or more 150+ game players, then you have nothing to compare it against.

As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #130 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see any value in recruiting experienced players simply because they are experienced.
That said it seems that recently the traffic at Princes Park has been heading in the wrong direction, in that we have been losing good quality experienced players but none apart from Thomas have headed our way, and he's not the player we expected.
Tuohy was the latest, 100+ games, well skilled, durable, prime age, gone.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #131 –
Michael Barlow would have been handy last night!
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #132 –
Quote from: sydneybluesfan – on
The youth vs experience argument will rage all year. My view from my playing days is you need a balance - getting physically smashed and intimidated each week, and getting smashed on the scoreboard, can scar players for life. But we need to find experienced players who can make a contribution [eg Wright] vs guys who are just making up the numbers [Thomas, Armfield, White].

We are on exactly the same page in this regard, the "Play the Kids" lobby argue that that it's better for us and them in the long run. But that is only if they aren't damaged by the process.

You get a section of the supporters who claim if they aren't up to it then you replace them. There isn't a single kid starting in the AFL who is up to getting smashed week in and week out. Playing them under such circumstances is basically damaging them for life from a Carlton perspective. Then when we discard them because they aren't the Messiah, they leave and when surrounded by some decent support they improve. Further the club just can't replace them, if they destroy them you basically burn your club's future.

We probably had one or two too many young players out there last night, and it made the whole side look unorganised. In the AFL one hesitant player can bring your team undone, we had two or three that looked completely lost last night.

We did see glimpses of what SPS and Pickett can do when we have the ball. But at the game when you can see the full field you could also clearly see what they often didn't do when Nthmond had the ball, and it wasn't pretty. But I don't hold that against them, they are just beginners.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #133 –
Quote from: mateinone – on
They do and I said I would bring probably a couple of top line 23-25 year olds also.
But players are harder, faster stronger at a younger age than ever before and not only that, very few teams have ever played with no 150+ game players, so premiership teams will have all met this criteria. It doesn't make it a necessary ingredient though.

If 99% of all teams have had a couple or more 150+ game players, then you have nothing to compare it against.

As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.

If the club followed your suggested wisdom they would be burning those kids, they would be mentally damaged and dominated by the opposition before they even got started. They need to be part of some little wins, if they are smashed week in and week out they will be permanently affected by that.

btw., If any club could have gone down that route GWS could have, but they didn't so I gather they do not agree with your opinion. Despite being able to take the pick of the crop they preserved their kids by surrounding them with some experience.

1st season; (Some 1st year protection)
Setanta O'hAilpin
Dean Brogan
James McDonald
Luke Power
Chad Cornes
Callan Ward

2nd season; (Not quite ready yet, I suppose ::) )
Bret Thornton
Stephen Gilham

In their 3rd season; (Hang on 3 years why would they even bother?)
Shane Mumford
Josh Hunt

In their 4th Season; (Holly cow, can't they develop those kids at all?)
Ryan Griffin
Joel Patefull
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: 2017 Rd 1 Post Game Analysis: Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #134 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Michael Barlow would have been handy last night!

Yep....only been getting 30 possies a game for GC in the JLT series, Cripps needs some help at the coalface, he was quiet last night and looked rusty, Barlow would have added some class
and let Cripps get a break from being the main man...you look in the twos and we have posters debating the merits of Nick Graham and how he could be our saviour...talk about deckchairs on the Titanic..
Barlow would have been great for our kids too, we need to invest in a couple of bigger mids who can at least match with players like Martin and not look intimidated like our blokes were....interesting how Hardwick praised Caddy for doing all the bullocking work and letting Martin, Prestia, Grigg do the damage...