Carlton Supporters Club

No PaulP, I can and have provide you with more evidence you are likely to need, but you chose ignorance over investigation because you have a lazy bent. You want answers not effort, that is something I cannot help you with.

So do the lazy thing PaulP, have faith PaulP and all will be revealed!

Of course I want answers. Doesn't everybody ? Answers which you are clearly unable to provide. All you do is send people on wild goose chases that lead nowhere. I have spent the last several days searching the internet and there is not a jot of direct evidence for the existence of these elements. I just wanted to hear it from you. But clearly inconvenient truths don't suit your agenda.

More guff.

The principles behind these ideas are not that hard. The technical and mathematical documentation required to demonstrate them is advanced, and well outside the scope of ordinary mortals.

Well at the very least, I should thank you for finally giving me links I can actually read. So kudos for that.

But none of that changes my current position. Lots of whizz bang technological equipment, lots and lots of money, and lots and lots of hope, but still not much to show for it. I understand that may all change tomorrow, but for now the state of play is what it is.

Although the WIMPS, Machos and references to dodgy accountants gave me a chuckle. Plus lots of technical jargon to alternately impress / bore your friends. I guess the idea of trapping scientists 1 km underground also appeals. 

Ahh well PaulP, there is no free lunch, if you are not prepared to do the work then I have assume you are not interested in the answer.

I suppose we do live(at least in our perception) in a instant society.

It has nothing to do with being lazy. My work ethic is fine, and my comprehension skills are fine. Read those articles yourself. All the PhD's and all the equations in the world won't alter the fact that after decades and decades, neither dark matter nor dark energy have been directly detected. The calculations are not theories. They are simply mathematical documentation of observed phenomena. Science takes that data and explains it in terms of current theories of gravitation, which has fallen short. Why not try something else ?

I have spent days looking at this, and the thing that I find especially galling is the arrogance and inevitability of it all. It doesn't matter whether it's a forum know-it-all, an undergrad student, Dawkins, Brian Cox or anyone else, any uncertainty or lack of information is almost always qualified with a "yet." "We don't have the answers yet." "We don't understand dark matter or energy yet", etc. There is rarely any doubt or humility expressed, never any concession to the very reasonable possibility that we have reached the limits of what we can measure. Never any attempt to state things simply and honestly. It's always science as the great white hope, the great solver of the universe's secrets. It's always presented as simply a matter of more time, more money etc.

If you had read the articles you should understand they are not trying for direct detections, all the experiments are indirect detection, but with careful design they continually narrow the range of whatever they detect might be.

In the world as we know it, at our human scale and perception within our current band of knowledge, direct detection is not possible but that doesn't mean you won't notice the influence or effects.

Like the wind blowing trillions of atmospheric particles through whatever is left of your hair, it gives you no information of what they are but you can indirectly detect their presence.

Even if I cannot detect what gets blown into my hair, there would no doubt be something that could, maybe even something as simple as a magnifying glass. So direct detection is certainly possible, but what is required to do that may not be ready to hand.

Sorry, for whatever reason, I thought you were referring to dust particles.

Surely you can see even a small amount of irony in this ? 96% of the universe is not detectable or visible, but we are told we can see / feel its effects. We can't even see the images directly, but have to rely on reconstructions. You don't see any connection between the high priests of science feeding the correct information to the minions, information that they only have proper access to, and high priests of religion in days past doing the same ?

I'm not really sure why you keep coming back to New Age and religion. I am neither nor, but whatever floats your boat.

I'm safely assuming that you don't have the time, expertise or equipment to conduct every experiment yourself. I'm also safely assuming that you do not pore through the papers discussing various theories, especially where high pressure maths and physics is concerned, since it would be very difficult to understand, no ?

You have a faith and a trust that the science community will banish all falsehoods, all false prophets, all lies, all deceptions, and leave you with the facts, aka the truth ?

Still not sounding familiar ?

You have a faith and a trust that the science community will banish all falsehoods, all false prophets, all lies, all deceptions, and leave you with the facts, aka the truth ?

Still not sounding familiar ?