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Re: Reset Rants

Reply #181 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I think PP is, rightly so, pointing out an ingrained culture, a culture of deep dysfunction, a culture that BB inherited.

Are we asking Bolton to fix that?
I think he has enough on his plate.
He can develop a cohesion in the football side of things that will make it easier for those above him...McKay, Judd, the CEO and the rest of the board to do their jobs.
While that unity remains you'll have a buffer against the external noise.

But ultimately, while the club may be unified, at some point there has to be a turnaround of on-field  fortunes or each and every one of those individuals will start to feel pressure.
That's when the fractures will start.

You don't get ...'As long as it takes.'

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #182 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I think PP is, rightly so, pointing out an ingrained culture, a culture of deep dysfunction, a culture that BB inherited.

Baggers we have certainly suffered from that culture in the past as evidenced by events. However I believe that the current reset is a genuine attempt to move on from that.

Is it working? Don't know yet.
Are we confident that the current board will continue to support it? I don't think they have any choice, they have publicly committed via statements made by The Judge.
Are others, the "old Carlton" style vultures, looking on for an opportunity for a putsch in the meantime? Probably, don't know for sure. Don't think this would happen before the end of 2019 and only then if insufficient improvement/progress is evident. Maybe the AFL would step in?
What will happen if this reset is judged to have failed at end 2019? Don't really know - it is possible we could descend back into chaos, I shudder to think  - I don't really want to contemplate what I think would be many more years in the wilderness as a result.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #183 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Yes I noted that DJC. I think Levi is showing a lot more confidence - not sure if it is due to his new responsibilities?

But I don't think they are new responsibilities Cookie  :-\

The last obvious forward line skipper was Eddie Betts - another reason why we should have anted up and kept Eddie in navy blue  :(

I think that it is more that Levi is at the peak of his powers as a second ruck/key forward, his goal kicking is as good as it gets (thanks Sav) and he has a couple of serious tall forwards to take some of the pressure.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #184 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I think that it is more that Levi is at the peak of his powers as a second ruck/key forward, his goal kicking is as good as it gets (thanks Sav) and he has a couple of serious tall forwards to take some of the pressure.

Looks like some strong lush regrowth rather than a green shoot!! He is moving and crashing with more confidence due to all of the above. 

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #185 –
The reset is about much more than embracing the draft and learning how to trade players for picks. And if it isn't, then we've learned nothing.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #186 –
Quote from: DJC – on
But I don't think they are new responsibilities Cookie  :-\

The last obvious forward line skipper was Eddie Betts - another reason why we should have anted up and kept Eddie in navy blue  :(

I think that it is more that Levi is at the peak of his powers as a second ruck/key forward, his goal kicking is as good as it gets (thanks Sav) and he has a couple of serious tall forwards to take some of the pressure.

You could well be right DJC. I have never thought of Levi as the general of our fwd division but hey! As far as my overall perception of him goes, yes I also think he is performing better now than he has ever done and looks very comfortable and confident in his role. At least some things must be working.  ;)
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #187 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The reset is about much more than embracing the draft and learning how to trade players for picks. And if it isn't, then we've learned nothing.


Agree.

In some ways the Bolton situation is going to be a KPI of how much our club has learned and how far we have come.

Old Carlton would have simply pulled the pin on him and gone out and gotten the most credentialled coach available to replace him.

New Carlton needs to act in a logical well thought out and reasonable manner.  If that means we need to move Bolton on, then a clear concise thought process and methodology will result in that decision, the club will act fairly transparently and the public will generally accept the decision.

Stephen Trigg's departure smelt a bit of old Carlton, and that might be something that has people a little bit on edge regarding which way we are going to go.  If you also consider that the club has a history of treated the rank and file with a little bit of disrespect, it leads to a bit of mistrust amongst the faithful which in turn creates a little bit of a result of the club holding its breathe.  The silence from the club has been a little bit deafening, but at the same time welcome because irrespective of what is thought, they are not canvassing publically.

Cain Liddle might want to get a wriggle on though.  Stephen Trigg was very engaged with the supporter base, and I find him to have been a little bit stand offish particularly at a time when a calm well reasoned voice from the footy club might be appreciated.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #188 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The reset is about much more than embracing the draft and learning how to trade players for picks. And if it isn't, then we've learned nothing.

What seems to be your major concern here Paul?
Is it the off-field stuff?

I think since LoGiudice took over the off field side of things, especially at board level, has been quite stable.
His partnership with Trigg set up the rebuild and sold it to supporters brilliantly.
The transition to Liddle seems to have gone reasonably smoothly without us skipping much more than a beat.
Even with the poor to mediocre results the majority of Carlton supporters are maintaining their patience.
Any other coach in our history would be on their last legs with results of the last two seasons and the worst ever start to a year.
Even the usual outside critics (media, ex footballers etc) are maintaining the line that we're on track.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #189 –
Quote from: Lods – on
What seems to be your major concern here Paul?
Is it the off-field stuff?

I think since LoGiudice took over the off field side of things, especially at board level, has been quite stable.
His partnership with Trigg set up the rebuild and sold it to supporters brilliantly.
The transition to Liddle seems to have gone reasonably smoothly without us skipping much more than a beat.
Even with the poor to mediocre results the majority of Carlton supporters are maintaining their patience.
Any other coach in our history would be on their last legs with results of the last two seasons and the worst ever start to a year.
Even the usual outside critics (media, ex footballers etc) are maintaining the line that we're on track.

My recent posts on this issue need to be seen in context with recent posts from others. The current argument seems to be that :

(a).  the rebuild is simply embracing the draft and swapping players for picks, and
(b). that we have been through several rebuilds before.

If (a) is true, then we should be very worried, and I disagree with (b), unless you count changing coaches as a rebuild. The intent behind actions, decisions, thought processes, beliefs, values has remained constant despite the changing roster of senior coaches and players, at least until Bolton came along, and even then I'm pinning my hopes that he genuinely is a change agent, and not a hoax.

Time will tell.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #190 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Baggers we have certainly suffered from that culture in the past as evidenced by events. However I believe that the current reset is a genuine attempt to move on from that.

Is it working? Don't know yet.
Are we confident that the current board will continue to support it? I don't think they have any choice, they have publicly committed via statements made by The Judge.
Are others, the "old Carlton" style vultures, looking on for an opportunity for a putsch in the meantime? Probably, don't know for sure. Don't think this would happen before the end of 2019 and only then if insufficient improvement/progress is evident. Maybe the AFL would step in?
What will happen if this reset is judged to have failed at end 2019? Don't really know - it is possible we could descend back into chaos, I shudder to think  - I don't really want to contemplate what I think would be many more years in the wilderness as a result.

Totally agree. My only concern would be McKay, SOS and Mathieson don't bring any of the 'old Carlton' with them. With the exception of Mathieson/Pratt, I like the look of our Board, seems they're heading in the right direction re embracing the necessary change. But as you and others have quite rightly said, only time will tell. I remain cautiously optimistic.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #191 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Totally agree. My only concern would be McKay, SOS and Mathieson don't bring any of the 'old Carlton' with them. With the exception of Mathieson/Pratt, I like the look of our Board, seems they're heading in the right direction re embracing the necessary change. But as you and others have quite rightly said, only time will tell. I remain cautiously optimistic.

Actually, I preferred the board when Dick Pratt and Raphael Germinder were in place, it felt like the club was at least making progress. One thing Richard Pratt had brought to the club was momentum, and while he was there the club held no debt to the other power brokers as they were trivial, we lost a bit of it since his passing.

Like you I worry a bit that the return of SOS while a Mathieson remains is the heralding of the return of the old Carlton, they are bit like Michael Kroger (Caligula to his Friends), they never go away and the old money buys their way back in no matter how bad their sins!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #193 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/are-the-bombers-being-badly-coached-20180430-p4zcgl.html

Despite the title, they devote a section to how we should brace ourselves for long term pain.

I think the BB appointment indicates that the club is prepared for a long rebuild. A completely new culture needs to be established among the playing group, the football dept and the admin. We have bitten the bullet but the best we can hope for immediately imo is 2-3 years of steady improvement and maybe a few more wins each year.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #194 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
I think the BB appointment indicates that the club is prepared for a long rebuild. A completely new culture needs to be established among the playing group, the football dept and the admin. We have bitten the bullet but the best we can hope for immediately imo is 2-3 years of steady improvement and maybe a few more wins each year.

EDIT : one hopes.

Re the podcast, listen from about 22.40 onwards.