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Author Topic: GM to dump Holden  (Read 622 times)

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Online ElwoodBlues1

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GM to dump Holden
« on: February 10, 2019, 05:26:48 PM »
Looks like long suffering Holden owners/fans are to be dealt another blow with GM about to sell off Holden to Inchcape Australia who are importers of such crap boxes like Peugeot, Citroen and I think they are also the importer for Subaru.
Fair chance the Holden name will disappear and be replaced by the Opel name only and Inchcape's main interest must be to use the Holden distribution network to flog more Subaru's and save some money...cant see why anyone would want Holden on their books.
Inchcape will probably import the Opel range only or even kill off Holden for good........not that killing off Holden for good is such a bad thing, lousy cars, worst customer service along with Ford in Aus......actually Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is slightly worse again... My sympathies if you own any vehicles from those makers......
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 05:44:04 PM by ElwoodBlues1 »

Offline capcom

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 08:49:04 PM »
Bathurst will look different

Online cookie2

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 09:00:53 PM »
I can see the rationale in a way. The Holden brand was built on cars, esp. family sedans and wagons, actually being made in Australia for Australian conditions. What is the value of that brand if non of its models are to be built here - why bother just putting a Holden badge on an imported model, especially when the source brand may have more cachet in specific model ranges?
Einstein eventually developed a theory about space - and it was about time too!

Online ElwoodBlues1

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 10:27:09 PM »
I can see the rationale in a way. The Holden brand was built on cars, esp. family sedans and wagons, actually being made in Australia for Australian conditions. What is the value of that brand if non of its models are to be built here - why bother just putting a Holden badge on an imported model, especially when the source brand may have more cachet in specific model ranges?

Sales are terrible for Holdens, they are still trying to flog Commodores that are 18 months old in design and calling them new cars, the brand is damaged and has been since they took money off the government when they promised to keep manufacturing in Aus but in fact closed down their operation and sent that money to Detroit....
Ford will be next, a equally woeful company whose customer service and engineering is amongst the worst.....

Online cookie2

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 07:09:33 AM »
Sales are terrible for Holdens, they are still trying to flog Commodores that are 18 months old in design and calling them new cars, the brand is damaged and has been since they took money off the government when they promised to keep manufacturing in Aus but in fact closed down their operation and sent that money to Detroit....
Ford will be next, a equally woeful company whose customer service and engineering is amongst the worst.....

Yes, the great Aussie public has generally moved on from the traditional Holden and Ford family vehicles leaving mainly the die-hards whose patronage does not provide enough demand to support local production. The Ford brand though, unlike Holden, is a global one, so will survive albeit on imported vehicles.
Einstein eventually developed a theory about space - and it was about time too!

Offline LP

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 08:19:07 AM »
Yes, the great Aussie public has generally moved on from the traditional Holden and Ford family vehicles leaving mainly the die-hards whose patronage does not provide enough demand to support local production. The Ford brand though, unlike Holden, is a global one, so will survive albeit on imported vehicles.

Most moved on because both brands tried to sell cars for top dollar with B-Grade builds and materials. Ford and Holden were making local plastic versions of BMW and Taurus and trying to charge more for them even though they were full of 70s technology!

The car makers would claim nobody wanted large cars, but at the moment the trend is away from small cars back to family sized vehicles which is ironic given they closed the plants making medium and large sized sedans. The truth was they didn't want to spend on old factories to update old models with modern powertrains and technologies.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the market over the next few years, a friend I have who use to own a Ford dealership tells me the biggest growth area is in light trucks like Twin cabs. Our market is becoming very American, and you can expect to find interesting hybrid or plugin versions appearing in SUVs and traditional muscle cars over the next few years. I was sceptical until he took me for a spin in his Tesla 100D, it cost a lot to buy, stuff all to run as he has a setup at home with solar panels and Tesla batteries that basically charges it off the sun, and pins you to the seat under acceleration like a top end sports car.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 08:24:40 AM by LP »
The Force Awakens!

Offline JonHenry

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 10:33:38 AM »
Most moved on because both brands tried to sell cars for top dollar with B-Grade builds and materials. Ford and Holden were making local plastic versions of BMW and Taurus and trying to charge more for them even though they were full of 70s technology!

The car makers would claim nobody wanted large cars, but at the moment the trend is away from small cars back to family sized vehicles which is ironic given they closed the plants making medium and large sized sedans. The truth was they didn't want to spend on old factories to update old models with modern powertrains and technologies.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the market over the next few years, a friend I have who use to own a Ford dealership tells me the biggest growth area is in light trucks like Twin cabs. Our market is becoming very American, and you can expect to find interesting hybrid or plugin versions appearing in SUVs and traditional muscle cars over the next few years. I was sceptical until he took me for a spin in his Tesla 100D, it cost a lot to buy, stuff all to run as he has a setup at home with solar panels and Tesla batteries that basically charges it off the sun, and pins you to the seat under acceleration like a top end sports car.

The truth is much simpler, the local manufacturers could not compete.
Labour costs at the low production factories could not compete with the Asian manufacturers for low cost vehicles, and they couldn't compete on quality with European manufacturers for high cost vehicles.
Our cost of living combined with union forces squeezed them out.

Offline Thryleon

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 10:37:37 AM »
The truth is much simpler, the local manufacturers could not compete.
Labour costs at the low production factories could not compete with the Asian manufacturers for low cost vehicles, and they couldn't compete on quality with European manufacturers for high cost vehicles.
Our cost of living combined with union forces squeezed them out.

Its all swings and roundabouts.

Give it time, things will come back here.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Offline JonHenry

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 11:06:32 AM »
Its all swings and roundabouts.

Give it time, things will come back here.

No chance in the next 25 years, and probably 50

Online cookie2

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 11:31:10 AM »
No chance in the next 25 years, and probably 50

Tend to agree. Building mass produced vehicles can be easily done these days in low labour cost countries e.g. Thailand. I guess AI and robotics could eventually virtually eliminate even most of the low cost labour required?

Would Aussies be prepared to work hard for very low pay in order to compete in that environment. Certainly not at the moment although the forces of neo-liberal globalism could beat us into submission eventually?
Einstein eventually developed a theory about space - and it was about time too!

Offline LP

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 12:16:26 PM »
The truth is much simpler, the local manufacturers could not compete.
Labour costs at the low production factories could not compete with the Asian manufacturers for low cost vehicles, and they couldn't compete on quality with European manufacturers for high cost vehicles.
Our cost of living combined with union forces squeezed them out.

In Melbourne all three manufacturers upgraded to almost fully automated robotic production lines which they ran for only 8hrs - 10hrs a day. They then complained the costs of manufacturing locally were too high, this was because they had incorporated 14 - 16hrs of the factory doing nothing into the vehicle cost. The labor cost was irrelevant, but they used the Australian wages debate to maintain / drive down the wages at new plants they were already in plans to build overseas.

When the two locals closed the factories they refused to sell the used equipment to local manufacturers or suppliers so they bulldozed the whole lot, and claimed a depreciated the loss at the expense of the Australian taxpayer, this is after getting hundreds of millions in federal and state government subsidies to buy those upgrades. When the federal government(Tax Dept) knocked back the claim the car makers took the federal government took court and won a settlement and costs, the law has since been changed to ensure nobody games the system like that again. Estimates are the US HQs made about A$500M out of the whole deal!

So what did they do next, they built new plants in Korea and the Philippines heavily subsidized by those governments to build medium to large cars, subsidized to an amount of about US$350M, and set them up exactly the same way the Melbourne plants were setup, if the plants were so inefficient why would you build them the same way? Perhaps because they can almost make more money building subsidized plants and decommissioning plants for tax write-offs than they do making cars! But like Apple, LG, Samsung, Mitsubishi and Sony the gig will soon be up for these global manufacturers.

The problem is the whole build/commission/decommission cycle takes decades or more and they get to pocket funding up front and pay it back very slowly, partially or never. Would the Tax Dept please give me $500M to mind for them for the next decade or so, I promise to pay it back in full! ;)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:35:22 PM by LP »
The Force Awakens!

Offline Thryleon

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 01:15:20 PM »
No chance in the next 25 years, and probably 50

Maybe.

Its all economics.

An economy that produces little will get overtaken by somebody else and then they will outsource to the cheaper labour.

It might take 100 years, but it will happen.  The only way to stop it is to produce a premium product, or innovate and do things better.  Thats what the Germans and the Japanese do anyway.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Offline DJC

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 03:27:29 PM »
No chance in the next 25 years, and probably 50

No chance ... unless there’s a dramatic change in world trade, treaties and government involvement.  Although advances in sustainable energy powered vehicles could be a game changer.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be . . .

Offline LP

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 08:49:02 AM »
Thats what the Germans and the Japanese do anyway.

In hindsight a lot of that has been smoke and mirrors.

Both countries have major manufacturers that have been caught out demanding and also claiming tight tolerances and performance levels that they cannot actually meet! They made sure the build quality was high, in other words they put on a nice clean set of clothes, and nobody bothered to ask questions about the other performance or technology claims.
The Force Awakens!

Offline Thryleon

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Re: GM to dump Holden
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 10:07:47 AM »
In hindsight a lot of that has been smoke and mirrors.

Both countries have major manufacturers that have been caught out demanding and also claiming tight tolerances and performance levels that they cannot actually meet! They made sure the build quality was high, in other words they put on a nice clean set of clothes, and nobody bothered to ask questions about the other performance or technology claims.

True, but it still works.  people swear by German and Japanese engineering.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

 

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