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Topic: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs (Read 51432 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #165 –
Quote from: jeza – on
The fact is you cannot tell if he'll be any good or not as he's skinny and 19.

Disagreeing with that is a "spud"like thing to do in my opinion.

Anyone can bookmark this page and come back in 12 months and make you look a complete and total dill.

Agreed.

In the context of SOS, Draft picks and f... ups, the early O'Brien negativity is sailing into the headwind. Just based on stats alone he is already 1/3rd of the way to the average number of games for a Pick #10, and 25% of the way to 100 games!

Of course I accept there is some ambiguity, for example setting the 100 game threshold leaves Joe Daniher a success at 104 games, but in reality he is probably closer to a scrub! I'd say that Big H(Pick #10 - 28 games) or Charlie(Pick #12 - 57 games) already have Daniher covered!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #166 –
There’s something about LOB - he’s hungry for it and he was hugely pissed when he gave away a free in their f50.  Showed some passion, lacking at CFC for many lately

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #167 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
LOB is simply a waste of a #10 selection.

Major f... up.

He wouldn't get a game at any other AFL Club. Period.

I agree he was a unusual pick 10, and one that raised eyebrows.  However he does have one good quality about him that I like. He has the confidence to use the ball long by foot - He kicks it hard and low a lot of the time and while his DE might not be as good as say a Walsh or SPS who like to chip the ball 20-25mts, when Obrien hits the target they are damaging possessions. They usually give our forwards a one on one and he kicks nicely to advantage as well. Long foot skills is a great quality to see in a very young player. He obviously still has heaps to build on but I rate that side of his game...I'm willing to give him more time.

Dow is the one that concerns me.....doesn't get it often and when he does its usually not clean. My concern is how many young players over the years, have we developed from a poor kick to a good one? Not many!  We are not Geelong or Hawthorn in the development side so selecting Dow with pick 3 was a dumb move IMO.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #168 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Thats the poor young Ben who wont chase, cant be bothered putting in much effort and thinks playing senior footy will just happen because Dad's a big wheel
at the club and is doing it so tough...

I think you spelt "Gary Ablett" wrong.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #170 –
Quote from: jeza – on
The fact is you cannot tell if he'll be any good or not as he's skinny and 19.

Disagreeing with that is a "spud"like thing to do in my opinion.

Anyone can bookmark this page and come back in 12 months and make you look a complete and total dill.

I quoted an article jeza.  I wont hide the fact I dont rate him but that doesn't mean much at this stage.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #171 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
There’s something about LOB - he’s hungry for it and he was hugely pissed when he gave away a free in their f50.  Showed some passion, lacking at CFC for many lately

I agree, and I don’t really understand the criticism he gets.  He is another of our youngsters who would benefit from the addition of a couple of mature, hard at it players. 

Like many of our players, he needs to work on his tackling technique (I wonder if my old PE teacher Paddy McGoldrick is still around  :-\ ) but the main thing he needs is teammates willing to shepherd and block to give him time and space to make his disposals count.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #172 –
Quote from: shawny – on
I agree he was a unusual pick 10, and one that raised eyebrows.  However he does have one good quality about him that I like. He has the confidence to use the ball long by foot - He kicks it hard and low a lot of the time and while his DE might not be as good as say a Walsh or SPS who like to chip the ball 20-25mts, when Obrien hits the target they are damaging possessions. They usually give our forwards a one on one and he kicks nicely to advantage as well. Long foot skills is a great quality to see in a very young player. He obviously still has heaps to build on but I rate that side of his game...I'm willing to give him more time.

Dow is the one that concerns me.....doesn't get it often and when he does its usually not clean. My concern is how many young players over the years, have we developed from a poor kick to a good one? Not many!  We are not Geelong or Hawthorn in the development side so selecting Dow with pick 3 was a dumb move IMO.

Couldn’t disagree more that he was a miss at pick 3 - second year player who had live breaking speed which is rare. He’ll tidy up his disposal and I think I’m time he will be an absolute gem. Just some teething issues, nothing more.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #173 –
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
Couldn’t disagree more that he was a miss at pick 3 - second year player who had live breaking speed which is rare. He’ll tidy up his disposal and I think I’m time he will be an absolute gem. Just some teething issues, nothing more.

You are basing it on what you 'think' he will become. The thing is to this point, we selected a player at pick 3 who was known to be iffy with his disposal and after 35 odd games it has not improved one bit. This is a fact and why I hope it fixes it self with another season I think im not on my own is saying I have some doubts.

We don't have a great record at fixing players deficiencies. We have delisted most of the poor users because we couldn't fix them. Levi has qualities others don't otherwise he wouldn't be there either.

  

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #174 –
Dow is a genuine worry for me. He was thrown into the deep end from the get-go but his disposal can still be quite erratic, all too often in fact. Not sure whether this can be fixed? Perhaps more quality time with Diesel?

Although hailed as the MF type we so badly needed, Kennedy has not really delivered much and looks very slow. OK he has been injured but he does need to start to show the goods soon, with some really convincing performances in the NBs, otherwise........

LOB is another kid who has been thrown into the deep end to sink or swim and at times does it tough. Ideally he would be playing NBs, probably for this year at least, but our lack of depth has seen him prematurely thrown into the front line. Hopefully this does not result in a premature fall from grace. CFC can be a cruel place indeed!

There is plenty of talk about us going into the market to bolster our mature MF stocks - let us pray that this talk turns into action this year or else we will likely regress as our existing elder statesmen come up for retirement and our kids get broken or disillusioned.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #175 –
Luke Beveridge made a point on TF that Footscray had less game experience than Carlton on Sunday. I checked this out and he is right by a total of three games overall. This is where stats are misleading. If you take out our three most experienced players and take out there most experienced players then the differential is over 300 in our favour. Our six most experienced players make up 65% of our total games played. Because of this our players will be up and down with form.
I was also reminded on FC that McGovern broke his back in the pre-season which will explain the issues with his hamstring tightness and gives some context around the lack of impact he is having in games.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #176 –
Correct.

McGovern and Charlie have had a few injuries and have returned sooner than expected that would explain their form.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #177 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Dow is a genuine worry for me. He was thrown into the deep end from the get-go but his disposal can still be quite erratic, all too often in fact. Not sure whether this can be fixed? Perhaps more quality time with Diesel?

Although hailed as the MF type we so badly needed, Kennedy has not really delivered much and looks very slow. OK he has been injured but he does need to start to show the goods soon, with some really convincing performances in the NBs, otherwise........

LOB is another kid who has been thrown into the deep end to sink or swim and at times does it tough. Ideally he would be playing NBs, probably for this year at least, but our lack of depth has seen him prematurely thrown into the front line. Hopefully this does not result in a premature fall from grace. CFC can be a cruel place indeed!

There is plenty of talk about us going into the market to bolster our mature MF stocks - let us pray that this talk turns into action this year or else we will likely regress as our existing elder statesmen come up for retirement and our kids get broken or disillusioned.

The entire draft year is struggling.

I wouldnt worry about using the current sample of work for anything in particular.  They are all experiencing second year blues with the exception of Tim Kelly who is a mature player who is in his mid 20's and plays in a team sitting two games clear top of the ladder.

Quote from: Blue Moon – on
Luke Beveridge made a point on TF that Footscray had less game experience than Carlton on Sunday. I checked this out and he is right by a total of three games overall. This is where stats are misleading. If you take out our three most experienced players and take out there most experienced players then the differential is over 300 in our favour. Our six most experienced players make up 65% of our total games played. Because of this our players will be up and down with form.
I was also reminded on FC that McGovern broke his back in the pre-season which will explain the issues with his hamstring tightness and gives some context around the lack of impact he is having in games.

Precisely the point.

Statistics are being used to display all manner of data but when you drill into it, we are simply 2 years away from having the kids all coming along to the magic number of 100 games  where they will all be ready to hit their prime and be consistent 4 quarter footballers.

The people in the know will see this and realise that this is when our window begins.  For now, they just have to continue learning through matches, and part of that is figuring out how to arrest momentum shifts in games which seems to be the theme of the season for us. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #178 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Dow is a genuine worry for me. He was thrown into the deep end from the get-go but his disposal can still be quite erratic, all too often in fact. Not sure whether this can be fixed? Perhaps more quality time with Diesel?

Although hailed as the MF type we so badly needed, Kennedy has not really delivered much and looks very slow. OK he has been injured but he does need to start to show the goods soon, with some really convincing performances in the NBs, otherwise........

LOB is another kid who has been thrown into the deep end to sink or swim and at times does it tough. Ideally he would be playing NBs, probably for this year at least, but our lack of depth has seen him prematurely thrown into the front line. Hopefully this does not result in a premature fall from grace. CFC can be a cruel place indeed!

There is plenty of talk about us going into the market to bolster our mature MF stocks - let us pray that this talk turns into action this year or else we will likely regress as our existing elder statesmen come up for retirement and our kids get broken or disillusioned.

Dow went well last year and started the season well this year but he should not be a prime mid atn this stage of his career. Same with O'Brien. Getting decent mids between 24-27yo is important both for the side and the development of those kids. It's wearing down Dow, LOB and even Fisher. Can see why we plucked big bodies from anywhere we could to try to help those players even if they weren't any good.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 13: Carlton vs. Western Bulldogs

Reply #179 –
Dow's main improvement will be getting more of the ball, he was never a reliable kick at TAC level so I dont think that is likely to improve much at senior AFL level.
He got big numbers at TAC level....30 possies was an average game for him and was getting 40 possies a game at times, it was his work rate and non stop running that was the key to his game much like we see from Walsh and why the latter is so good and carried that TAC form across.

I'd leave Dow on a wing and let him run up and down and keep him out of the middle where you need real grunt and muscle. The kid is a running machine and being used
wrongly IMO.