CV and mad panic behaviour

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #870 – July 14, 2020, 08:36:15 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 – on July 14, 2020, 06:59:02 pm

That's just silly spin Baggers. Demonising, get real.

The bloke gets paid $441k a year to make the big calls - so he gets the kudos when it goes right and also gets the flak when it goes pear shaped - as it well and truly has done here.

Did you read or hear today (as I understand it):

1. They were aware of potential outbreaks in the Carlton towers many weeks back - and did sfa;
2. they were advised on Day 1 of the quarantine gig that the arrangements in place were questionable;
3. the initial recommendation made to use ADF or others i.e. police was rejected (or ignored).

It appears the ONLY reason there is a lock down now - 6 weeks - is because of the quarantine fiasco.

If I were in his shoes, I would resign. Simple.

I have to agree with this. The quarantine debacle was Andrews being pig headed and keeping his union mates happy. If he listened to the PM and took the offer of ADF and Fed Pol (like all the other states did), there would be no quarantine debacle. Simple. Yes the corkheads in quarantine did the wrong thing, but they wouldnt have tried that on for size if they were starting a soldier or a copper in the face.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #871 – July 14, 2020, 10:09:07 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 – on July 14, 2020, 07:47:46 pm

And a little more shade...

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hotel-infection-data-kept-secret-as-opposition-calls-for-ministers-to-be-dumped-20200714-p55by9.html

March 28...

March 28 the hospital i was working at was trying to figure out how much PPE was required. We hadn't even started proper lockdowns.

The calls for the defence force happened when?

Theres a lot of creative timeline going on. There have been some errors but none bigger than people acting like they couldn't give a stuff about anyone else.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #872 – July 15, 2020, 08:11:29 am

Yes Thry, I fell your pain.

The critics use the Joseph Goebbels approach to information handling, which paraphrased goes something like this;

"If you say a lie often enough and loud enough eventually it becomes truth, everyone will believe it, even yourself!"

A wartime propaganda technique now heavily adopted by "The Donald"!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #873 – July 15, 2020, 08:25:35 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on July 14, 2020, 07:32:45 am

The media are not going to talk candidly about what happened and are ensuring the finger isnt pointed at certain minorities.

I've overheard a rumour the police had already traced the major trigger for this outbreak to a family gathering several weeks ago, a group of several dozen people at a party and the virus has now had a 100% hit rate on attendees. But a lid is being kept on it because the police already have enough crap to deal with at the moment.

At first I thought the idea of the virus achieving 100% transmission with a diverse age group and gathering as large as 40 or 50 people was bogus, but there are now contact tracing reports coming from around the globe of similar events. It seems that genetic susceptibility plays a huge part in this virus transmission, and if you've got the right (or wrong) genes you are in the gun. In this case the family have 100% infection, but not one family member was an ICU case despite having a number of elderly types at the party. In effect they are/were a family of super-spreaders, I say were because weeks later they are probably not infectious anymore. Although we know from the case of Richard Wilkins you can remain asymptomatic and infectious for much longer than 14 days.

The right wing media factions will tear the politicians a new one if enough of the facts get into the public domain. I presume the media are either sitting on the information for the most explosive moment, or are yet to get it all fully verified. But it is being discussed behind the scenes almost daily, and I suspect they are waiting for a legal team to tick it off.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #874 – July 15, 2020, 08:55:29 am

^^

From where I sit, all the focus is on businesses and economy. Thing is, most small businesses are being propped up by government stimulus. For the right wingers to be going this hard, its the major players that are probably the ones screaming loudest about the damage being done, because their losses are amplified by lockdowns. Joe Average is likely getting a honeymoon from most of his creditors courtesy of the government. Sure, this will hurt a lot of entrepeneurs, and most of the ones that only started up recently, but the movement is far too large for anyone but the rich to be the ones pulling these strings, and letting people power do the screaming for them.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #875 – July 15, 2020, 09:16:43 am

The world was/is drowning in debt. I would be surprised if this pandemic does not eventually precipitate some severe austerity measures in an attempt to achieve some form of economic reset.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #876 – July 15, 2020, 09:27:13 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on July 14, 2020, 06:59:02 pm

That's just silly spin Baggers. Demonising, get real.

The bloke gets paid $441k a year to make the big calls - so he gets the kudos when it goes right and also gets the flak when it goes pear shaped - as it well and truly has done here.

Did you read or hear today (as I understand it):

1. They were aware of potential outbreaks in the Carlton towers many weeks back - and did sfa;
2. they were advised on Day 1 of the quarantine gig that the arrangements in place were questionable;
3. the initial recommendation made to use ADF or others i.e. police was rejected (or ignored).

It appears the ONLY reason there is a lock down now - 6 weeks - is because of the quarantine fiasco.

If I were in his shoes, I would resign. Simple.

Ah, FB, you're jumping at shadows young fella.

Andrews has said a number of times in interviews that the buck stops with him and if there are stuff ups, he'll wear it, as he should.

His pay packet is irrelevant. I gave up long ago believing that the size of someone's pay-packet had a direct correlation with their abilities and competency re responsibilities. What matters is that he is the boss, has got to be across everything and making sound decisions... if the investigation discovers he stuffed up, then he can FO.

The newspapers are full of rumours, he said she said they said stuff. Click bait. Do yourself a favour, don't buy into anything of the media scuttlebutt until it becomes a proven fact. Of course there were some with doubts about this that and the other... always is with every decision, and these people get very clever when it seems they may have been right. I make it a habit to ignore just about all Murdoch media (malcontent and bullsh1te HQ) and to take the rest with a massive grain of salt. Murdoch himself said decades ago that he has no interest in the news, only how to make it entertaining (which means inflammatory, sensational etc.,) to make more money.

As for thinking the ADF watching over the towers would have worked wonders... you've obviously not served in the military. As DJC also pointed out you can bet there would have been more rooting and other sexual favours going on with soldiers than with the private security company - you can take that to the bank.

For the record, I personally believe that all our state Premiers, to date, and the Prime Minister have done a commendable job... regardless of what side of the ideological fence they find themselves, especially in comparison to many other countries. We're better led than most. Not perfect, but sheesh some of the cr@p going on in other countries is head spinning.

Personally I believe that this concerning increase in Victoria can be put down to one thing... humans not committing themselves to quarantine and to other preventative measures (masks, sanitizing hands regularly, distancing and so on). Scapegoating one individual is fruitless.

Believe it or not there is still a considerable number of people who think this C-19 thing is a hoax, or not as bad as everyone thinks, or it won't get them, or it's just a bad flu, or they just don't give a cr@p about anyone other than themselves... our leaders can only set the game plan, if people decide to ignore it then, well, we get what we've got. And it doesn't take many to fck it up for the rest of us. Most folks are rippers and doing their best... including our pollies.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #877 – July 15, 2020, 09:56:05 am

Quote from: Baggers – on July 15, 2020, 09:27:13 am

Ah, FB, you're jumping at shadows young fella.

Andrews has said a number of times in interviews that the buck stops with him and if there are stuff ups, he'll wear it, as he should.

His pay packet is irrelevant. I gave up long ago believing that the size of someone's pay-packet had a direct correlation with their abilities and competency re responsibilities. What matters is that he is the boss, has got to be across everything and making sound decisions... if the investigation discovers he stuffed up, then he can FO.

The newspapers are full of rumours, he said she said they said stuff. Click bait. Do yourself a favour, don't buy into anything of the media scuttlebutt until it becomes a proven fact. Of course there were some with doubts about this that and the other... always is with every decision, and these people get very clever when it seems they may have been right. I make it a habit to ignore just about all Murdoch media (malcontent and bullsh1te HQ) and to take the rest with a massive grain of salt. Murdoch himself said decades ago that he has no interest in the news, only how to make it entertaining (which means inflammatory, sensational etc.,) to make more money.

As for thinking the ADF watching over the towers would have worked wonders... you've obviously not served in the military. As DJC also pointed out you can bet there would have been more rooting and other sexual favours going on with soldiers than with the private security company - you can take that to the bank.

For the record, I personally believe that all our state Premiers, to date, and the Prime Minister have done a commendable job... regardless of what side of the ideological fence they find themselves, especially in comparison to many other countries. We're better led than most. Not perfect, but sheesh some of the cr@p going on in other countries is head spinning.

Personally I believe that this concerning increase in Victoria can be put down to one thing... humans not committing themselves to quarantine and to other preventative measures (masks, sanitizing hands regularly, distancing and so on). Scapegoating one individual is fruitless.

Believe it or not there is still a considerable number of people who think this C-19 thing is a hoax, or not as bad as everyone thinks, or it won't get them, or it's just a bad flu, or they just don't give a cr@p about anyone other than themselves... our leaders can only set the game plan, if people decide to ignore it then, well, we get what we've got. And it doesn't take many to fck it up for the rest of us. Most folks are rippers and doing their best... including our pollies.

Funny stuff Baggers, playing the condescension card. I thought you'd know better.

Scape goating?

There you go again...facile.

You haven't grasped the fact that I'd be saying exactly the same stuff if it was a Liberal Premier?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #878 – July 15, 2020, 10:01:46 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on July 14, 2020, 08:36:15 pm

I have to agree with this. The quarantine debacle was Andrews being pig headed and keeping his union mates happy. If he listened to the PM and took the offer of ADF and Fed Pol (like all the other states did), there would be no quarantine debacle. Simple. Yes the corkheads in quarantine did the wrong thing, but they wouldnt have tried that on for size if they were starting a soldier or a copper in the face.

And releasing punters back into the community without getting them tested?

Laughable. Fawlty Towers stuff.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #879 – July 15, 2020, 10:02:32 am

Quote from: cookie2 – on July 15, 2020, 09:16:43 am

The world was/is drowning in debt. I would be surprised if this pandemic does not eventually precipitate some severe austerity measures in an attempt to achieve some form of economic reset.

Yes, it's entirely possible unending growth has come to an inevitable end long before it's predicted limit. It's obvious unending growth is impossible and untenable to maintain, but it is a not in my lifetime problem, and yet!!!!

There are a couple of global precincts/districts that will be laughing all the way to the bank at the moment, having weened themselves of economic growth and GDP measures long long ago!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #880 – July 15, 2020, 10:05:22 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on July 15, 2020, 09:56:05 am

Funny stuff Baggers, playing the condescension card. I thought you'd know better.

Scape goating?

There you go again...facile.

You haven't grasped the fact that I'd be saying exactly the same stuff if it was a Liberal Premier?

I gather you do get the irony of your comments!

I didn't read any politics into Baggers comments, I gather many others won't either, in fact they come across as bipartisan, but you want to find a political or social conspiracy even where none exists. So you resort to bait and switch sledging whenever the innuendo and rumour you post gets questioned. The more you behave like this the more your thoughts and political position is exposed, I get it, maybe we get it, you love anarchy!

Most of us just want everybody to be safe and well, and the economic cost of achieving that is largely irrelevant. Having a fat bank account, a profitable business, a nice superannuation fund and cheap petrol, doesn't do much good for you if you are dead!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #881 – July 15, 2020, 10:17:05 am

I want to post some support for our doctors and nurses, to all the medical and hospital staff as well as those in our GP clinics. They are superstars and heroes, as heroic as any war veteran.

The media paint some ideological picture that we are good or superior at dealing with this clinic, but reality is we've just been lucky because locally we didn't have a Trump type in control. Someone who's inaction has cost more lives than a war!

So far locally demand for critical care hasn't outstripped the resources available, but there is a very good chance that is about to be tested and Thry will probably confirm they are gearing up for that right now.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #882 – July 15, 2020, 10:28:50 am

If I offered everyone here a 100 chamber revolver as an analogy to getting a SARS-CoV-2 infection, and 1 single bullet in analogy to deaths from SARS-CoV-2 infections, for a personal game of Russian roulette, nobody would take it.

Because only morons ignore that the win changes nothing and the loss changes everything, and I don't think anybody here is a moron!

And that's ignoring that a bunch of the other chambers are not empty but contain non-lethal disfiguring rounds.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #883 – July 15, 2020, 10:32:08 am

Quote from: LP – on July 15, 2020, 10:05:22 am

I gather you do get the irony of your comments!

I didn't read any politics into Baggers comments, I gather many others won't either, in fact they come across as bipartisan, but you want to find a political or social conspiracy even where none exists. So you resort to bait and switch sledging whenever the innuendo and rumour you post gets questioned. The more you behave like this the more your thoughts and political position is exposed, I get it, maybe we get it, you love anarchy!

Most of us just want everybody to be safe and well, and the economic cost of achieving that is largely irrelevant. Having a fat bank account, a profitable business, a nice superannuation fund and cheap petrol, doesn't do much good for you if you are dead!

If you're going to try to take the piss LP, glance in the mirror first?

This from the guy who quotes Goebbels then runs with the standard anti Trump card.

Political or social conspiracy? Bait and switch? Again, facile.

No, I'm just pissed about a massive blunder which no one is prepared to take any responsibility for....that affects all of us!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #884 – July 15, 2020, 10:33:37 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on July 15, 2020, 10:32:08 am

If you're going to try to take the piss LP, glance in the mirror first?

This from the guy who quotes Goebbels then runs with the standard anti Trump card.

Political or social conspiracy? Bait and switch? Again, facile.

No, I'm just pissed about a massive blunder which no one is prepared to take any responsibility for....that affects all of us!

We can just keep reflecting your comments, it's the best way to deal with tantrums or bullies!

Most of us do not take it personally, because your assertions are without foundation, we get you offer nothing but rhetorical loops and paranoia, it's standard practise on the internet to demand that the people debugging your posts prove it over and over again, then ignore the proof no matter how relevant, definitive or unequivocal that debunking may be.

You must see the relevance of the Goebbels reference, given you posted multiple links to same basic retrospective meta-data analysis studies. 500% wasted effort your your behalf!

On Trump, perhaps we should just all retweet a game show hosts COVID-19 commentary, and cut out the middle man?