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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5685 –
Look guys, its a pandemic.

Thus far we have dodged a lot of covid patients going to hospital at all and the "strain" on the health system is being over stated purely based on a few anecdotals.  The number of covid patients we have in our hospitals at all at the moment is the thing to look for, and look how NSW is tracking with their covid journey.  We are only at worst a few weeks behind them in both vaccinations, and although our numbers look a bit ordinary, the facts are as follows:

We have a grand total of 777 current cases admitted.  The relaxing of restrictions with current vaccine coverage is unlikely to lead to a sharp increase in hospitalisation.

There are 151 ICU, 94 on ventilators.

In NSW, they currently have 606 in hospital, 132 in ICU, and 71 on ventilators and there last few weeks have seen falling case numbers at really strong rates, which indicates that the vaccinations do stop the spread.

Yes, the pandemic is going to continue. 
Yes the worst of it is ahead of us. 
No, opening up is not going to lead to thousands of covid patients clogging hospitals (reference NSW).
No, we are not going to get to 0, and
Yes we are going to see hospitals under some level of strain but the hospitals at the moment, aren't even close to straining.

Normality needs to resume.  Its simple stuff.  We are 13 days away from 80% double vaxed, and 4 days away from 90% single vaxed.  By the start of December, we are going to see 90% of our population in victoria double vaxed.

As we have seen from history, it would take months to infect the remaining people in large numbers who aren't getting vaccinated and only a small percentage of those remaining actually go to hospital.  The majority of people holding out beyond this time, are more likely to go get vaccinated out of fear of opening up, than they would if we stay with significant restrictions which feeds their anti Dan, anti Vax agenda, covid is fake and this is all about control agenda, rather than makes them see that all of this was done for their own well being.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5686 –
I wonder if the various apps will prevent anti-vaxers booking their "escape" to Bali.

I have to expect they'll try, and if they do and end up infected, who foots the repatriation bill?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5687 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
In NSW, they currently have 606 in hospital, 132 in ICU, and 71 on ventilators and there last few weeks have seen falling case numbers at really strong rates, which indicates that the vaccinations do stop the spread.
You'd think that this is the rational conclusion to draw, but conspiracy theories are like the Black Knight: it doesn't matter how many fatal cuts they suffer, they never die. The success of the vaccination program will be used against it: "They said it would kill a lot of people but it didn't, so we know Covid was a hoax". And anti-vaxxers will try to credit Ivermectin, Vitamin C and sunlight for the better-than-expected hospitalisation data. It really doesn't matter if you lose the war as long as you get to rewrite history to say you won.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5688 –
Quote from: Mav – on
You'd think that this is the rational conclusion to draw, but conspiracy theories are like the Black Knight: it doesn't matter how many fatal cuts they suffer, they never die. The success of the vaccination program will be used against it: "They said it would kill a lot of people but it didn't, so we know Covid was a hoax". And anti-vaxxers will try to credit Ivermectin, Vitamin C and sunlight for the better-than-expected hospitalisation data. It really doesn't matter if you lose the war as long as you get to rewrite history to say you won.
The other more modern day problem is that there is an opportunity to profit.

There are already anti-vaxers posing questions about the hypothetical burden of responsibility if they are refused entry to a venue, or even if they are admitted to a venue and catch COVID off the venue staff! I'm assuming they are preparing for litigation so they can orchestrate the circumstance.

There are some truly horrid humans in the world!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5691 –
Quote from: spf – on
Dr. Omar Khorshid discusses: The reality in public hospitals in Australia right now, opening up, and vaccinations.

https://www.ama.com.au/media/dr-omar-khorshid-hospitals-and-opening-vaccinating-children-under-12-over-60s-and-mandatory
I drove past a major suburban hospital today and there was a queue of Ambulance 10 or 12 units deep just in the entrance driveway, I've never seen that before and I've been driving past this hospital for 20 years!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5692 –
Quote from: spf – on
I was not aware of this:

Petition EN3313 - Freedom of Vaccine Choice in Australia

https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN3313
Is this the petition started by pensioners who wanted to overturn the Pfizer age cut off?

Not sure if it's been co-opted now for other nefarious reasons.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5693 –
Quote from: spf – on
I was not aware of this:

Petition EN3313 - Freedom of Vaccine Choice in Australia

https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN3313

For a start, it's not true that "businesses and state borders [are] unconstitutionally close (sic) to unvaccinated Australians".  Several court cases have shown that the various State health orders are constitutional.  More to the point, if folk want to start a petition, it would be an idea to have a fact check and a proof read first. 

In Victoria, anyone aged 12 years and over can receive the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.  Anyone aged 18 years and over can receive the AstraZeneca vaccine.  So, apart from spreading misinformation about "constitutional rights", what's the petition trying to achieve?

Interestingly, it's apparent that the side effects from the Pfizer vaccine are worse and more common than those from the AstraZeneca vaccine.  The AstraZeneca vaccine also seems to be more effective and recipients probably won't need a booster.

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5694 –
Pfizer has more side effects but it hasn't killed anyone in Australia yet. I think NZ has had one death.

We don't record which vaccine covid patients who have been jabbed have had but overseas they have and pfizer clearly has fared better.

Astra does last longer but will probably need a booster anyway. Sutton last week said the info he has received is that the boosters further strengthen your protection to the virus by 10 times and he couldn't say it would last a life time but it looks like it would last years. Bring on the boosters!
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5695 –
Colin Powell has died from a breakthrough infection. His death is noteworthy of itself but right-wingers in the US are trying to use it as proof vaccinations don’t work. But at 84 years of age and suffering from multiple myeloma, he was dependent on the kindness of strangers,

What Colin Powell’s Death Really Means About the Vaccines, Slate.

Quote
A crucial fact about Powell being left out of many headlines: He had been previously diagnosed with multiple myeloma. Multiple myeloma is a blood cancer that devastates the immune system—in particular, the blood’s plasma cells that produce antibodies. Only 50 percent of blood cancer patients produce antibodies in response to vaccination, and even after a booster, 33 percent still fail to produce antibodies.A crucial fact about Powell being left out of many headlines: He had been previously diagnosed with multiple myeloma. Multiple myeloma is a blood cancer that devastates the immune system—in particular, the blood’s plasma cells that produce antibodies. Only 50 percent of blood cancer patients produce antibodies in response to vaccination, and even after a booster, 33 percent still fail to produce antibodies.
...
”Multiple myeloma is not curable, so while he may (or may not) have been on active treatment, his disease, and his age, made him more vulnerable to breakthrough infection, complications, and death,” said Dr. Gwen Nichols
...
Widespread vaccination, all else being equal, lowers community spread among both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Less spread means someone vulnerable, like Powell, would be less likely to become infected in the first place—regardless of the vaccination status of his close contacts. When combined with added precautions such as masks in crowded public spaces, vaccination remains one of the best tools we have. Powell’s death is a reminder that vaccination is an individual choice with community ramifications. Although many people with risk factors may look healthy and live healthy lives, they depend on people with stronger immune systems to protect them.

Hear, hear.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5696 –
Quote from: DJC – on
For a start, it's not true that "businesses and state borders [are] unconstitutionally close (sic) to unvaccinated Australians".  Several court cases have shown that the various State health orders are constitutional.  More to the point, if folk want to start a petition, it would be an idea to have a fact check and a proof read first. 

In Victoria, anyone aged 12 years and over can receive the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.  Anyone aged 18 years and over can receive the AstraZeneca vaccine.  So, apart from spreading misinformation about "constitutional rights", what's the petition trying to achieve?

Interestingly, it's apparent that the side effects from the Pfizer vaccine are worse and more common than those from the AstraZeneca vaccine.  The AstraZeneca vaccine also seems to be more effective and recipients probably won't need a booster.

This rings true to moi, David.

Mrs Baggers had the Pfizer double dose and I had the AstraZeneca double dose. Although neither of us experienced bad reactions/side effects aside from the understandable immune response, Mrs Baggers definitely experienced more discomfort and for longer. Interestingly, my sister (a year younger than me) also had the AstraZeneca and her husband the Pfizer. Similar results with those guys. My brother-in-law experienced discomfort for a few days, my sister the next day only. None of us has has a chronic illness though my sister has had pneumonia 3 times and mild asthma.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5697 –
Astra will be dead in the water in Australia in 2022. I'd be expecting a big uptake on Novavax for boosters if it gets here.
Pfizer has been the main vaccine causing side effect issues in hospital ERs from my info.
Lot of chest pains and it's across the age groups. One inner Melb hospital was clogged with side effect patients and was on bypass.
Its the second jab causing the problems too..
The USA are only allowing boosters for over 65s and the real vulnerable. Be interesting to see any data on whether mixing your vaccines is safer than having say three shots(including booster) of the same type.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5698 –
The things you DON'T hear @ElwoodBlues1 .... think I'll be getting a jab today thanks to a (unrelated) hospital visit last night.
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5699 –
wtf is wrong with Djokovic?

One minute he is all chest thumping and bravado regarding being staunchly anti-vax and spreading bizarre COVID conspiracies, then the next minute he's all demure and reserved while refusing to answer a question about if he has had a vaccination?

Maybe they should ask him if he has any testicles?

Mr Joker grow some balls. Either stick with your conviction or admit you've flipped, because sitting on the fence just highlights that you live a life of privileged double standards and utter elite hypocrisy.

( I suspect the media have inside word that he has flipped, which would be a massive about face, and potentially costly to him given some related sponsorship deals from certain wellness providers. Who'd have thunk cash earnings, commissions and dividends defeat empathy and morality! )
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"