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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7470 –
I think we need to be careful with words and nomenclature. The covid vaccines are based on technologies that have been decades in the making. They're not just some weird sh1t that scientists pulled out of their ar$e. There will always be debate about how long vaccines should be tested, length of clinical trials etc. But the suggestion that the covid vaccines were untested is wrong. The suggestion that they were inadequately tested is at best debatable, at worst just plain wrong. The world needed to act, and did not have the benefit of waiting as the corpses piled up. The data makes it pretty clear that the benefit / harm ratio of the covid vaccines was very high. 60 million deaths averted according to Dr Karl. I'll take that any day.

One final word about skepticism. It's a good and very necessary thing to be skeptical, but knowing how to be properly skeptical is an art form, a life skill. It's very easy to move from skepticism to straight out denialism, without even realising it. It's easy to allow one's political likes and dislikes to cloud the one's judgment, at which skepticism just becomes tribalism.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7471 –
Quote from: shawny – on

 :o

Unless they knew years in advance COVID was coming its impossible 'normal testing' was performed.

Talking utter rubbish

I’m sorry Shawny but talking rubbish is your superpower 🙄

You do know that you can’t rely on conspiracy theories or social media as your primary sources of information.

For a start, the new vaccine technology was, in fact, well established.  It was simply a matter of applying it to COVID. All COVID vaccines approved for use in Australia went through the normal testing process before approval.  You’re focusing on the rapidity of approvals but time is not necessarily a factor.

If you think back, you should recall that the vaccines weren’t initially approved for youngsters because they hadn’t been adequately tested for younger age groups.  Approval was granted when the testing benchmarks had been achieved.  You may also recall that there were specific vaccines for older folk because the testing had shown them to be more efficacious.

It’s not difficult to access scientific papers on the development and testing of vaccines. 

The process followed by our Therapeutic Goods Administration for approval of COVID vaccines is set out very clearly and in considerable detail at:

https://www.tga.gov.au/products/covid-19/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-approval-process

There’s no need to spread misinformation when the facts are readily available!

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7472 –
Quote from: shawny – on
I tell you who is talking porkies..... For one the usual clinical trials for COVID vaccine were skipped and there are other short cuts they were forced to take due to the circumstances.

I understand why just be refreshing if you could be understanding as to why some folk were apprehensive and why giving this sort of drug to demographics that were not at serious risk raised eyebrows.

Just for a second try and see that perspective without replying with a insult about how ignorant i am.

This is the crux of the matter; which folk were apprehensive and whose eyebrows were raised?

Certainly not the vast majority of epidemiologists, health professionals, medical researchers, and folk who don’t rely on social media for information.

I cited the The Lancet Commission on lessons for the future from the COVID-19 pandemic previously and it’s worth repeating:

“This staggering death toll [from COVID] is both a profound tragedy and a massive global failure at multiple levels. Too many governments have failed to adhere to basic norms of institutional rationality and transparency, too many people—often influenced by misinformation—have disrespected and protested against basic public health precautions, and the world's major powers have failed to collaborate to control the pandemic.”
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7473 –
mRNA type vaccination was first developed the 60s (?), but due to lack of nano technology wasn't able to deliver results on a mass scale.

The structure of mRNA means that a vaccine can be developed relatively quickly and effectively then rolled out following trials and due it's nature doesn't need that 4-10 year trial like we hear about for a lot of medicines/potential cures.

John Hopkins Medicine/Uni has quite a few easy to read sheets and it is easy to search.

British Heart foundation has an interesting page on mRNA vaccination and myocarditis/pericarditis side effect (also mentions that Covid is more likely to cause these conditions than the vaccine)

Was the incidence and fatality in Australia of Covid diminished because of the steps taken?  It appears that way, although there were some restrictions that seemed out of whack at the time and hindsight might also confirm that.

When/If the next highly contagious bug comes round, I think there would be mutiny if the same restrictions were put in place - even if they are justified.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7474 –
Quote from: dodge – on
British Heart foundation has an interesting page on mRNA vaccination and myocarditis/pericarditis side effect (also mentions that Covid is more likely to cause these conditions than the vaccine)
Yes @dodge , that has always been the official position from the medical experts. At the moment we are seeing increases in death rates following the pandemic, in particular adverse cardiac events have greatly increased, and in young people as well as elderly. Politicised by some trypanophobes as a side-effect of vaccine, but recently I believe it was the BMJ that published the hard truth, that post pandemic adverse death rates were about 3X higher in unvaccinated than vaccinated. The root cause COVID infection. Look on the bright side, time heals all wounds, and at this rate the bulls1ters are disappearing at 3X the rate of the the rest of us! ;D



If I see something I do as potentially dangerous or life threatening and I say feck it I'll do it anyway then the risk is mine, if the same act threatens the welfare of others and I do it anyway, I go to jail for a deleterious outcome.

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7475 –
Quote from: shawny – on
...............  or what about teenagers that speed and then have a serious car accident.
I see, so we must treat unvaccinated COVID spreaders like illegal law breaking drivers, and send them to jail regardless of the subsequent physical condition. Seems fair enough!

Or perhaps that's just a smoke and mirrors diversionary analogy you've made with little thought about the detail.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7476 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Do you also think smokers should get treated for smoke related cancers or those with obesity shouldn't get treated for diabetes or heart disease.
If they refuse treatment they don't get treated, they get palliative care though.

Are you asserting if there was a vaccine that could cure smoking related cancer you'd recommend refusal and protest against it?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7477 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on
Do you also think smokers should get treated for smoke related cancers or those with obesity shouldn't get treated for diabetes or heart disease.
If they refuse treatment they don't get treated, they get palliative care though.

Are you asserting if there was a vaccine that could cure smoking related cancer you'd recommend refusal and protest against it?

No you have said the unvaccinated shouldn't be clogging up the hospitals.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7478 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: LP – on

If they refuse treatment they don't get treated, they get palliative care though.

Are you asserting if there was a vaccine that could cure smoking related cancer you'd recommend refusal and protest against it?

No you have said the unvaccinated shouldn't be clogging up the hospitals.

MBB, I've giving up replying to him now. I understand why Kruddler got so frustrated.

Never reads what he is replying to properly as he is too excited to write his typical rambling reply. 

Waste of time  

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7479 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
No you have said the unvaccinated shouldn't be clogging up the hospitals.
I wrote,
"Don't be like the two faced individuals of the past and clog up the hospitals begging for last minute assistance, suck it up and die like a man!"

There are many people who remain unvaccinated for a valid reason, not because they refused vaccination based on a conspiracy theory. If you refuse treatment then you should get your wish, assuming you're not a Clark K#nt imposing your will on a defenceless minor!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7480 –
Quote from: shawny – on
MBB, I've giving up replying to him now. I understand why Kruddler got so frustrated.

Never reads what he is replying to properly as he is too excited to write his typical rambling reply. 

Waste of time
Looks like I have great efficacy in the fight against bullsh1t!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7481 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The process followed by our Therapeutic Goods Administration for approval of COVID vaccines is set out very clearly and in considerable detail at:

https://www.tga.gov.au/products/covid-19/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-approval-process

There’s no need to spread misinformation when the facts are readily available!
You're just a dupe for Big Pharma!  :P

I'm sure someone, probably a person named Donald, will claim all the technical websites are AI generated deep fakes!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7482 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I don’t know if LP’s friend is on the Lancet Commission 😇
The troops are on the front line, they have a unique perspective.

I think the scariest thing for my associates, even the cynics in the health system, is the indiscriminate way this post-pandemic situation has developed. There a cases where people were infected and asymptomatic but have developed post-pandemic life threatening complications, a ridiculous percentage of children and youth fall in the infected but asymptomatic category, what is the long term looking like? It pays to stay vigilant.

We haven't even introduced the effects of multiple COVID infections.

All the numbers are pretty solid, simply because of the scale of the pandemic and it's treatments.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7483 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
No you have said the unvaccinated shouldn't be clogging up the hospitals.
I wrote,
"Don't be like the two faced individuals of the past and clog up the hospitals begging for last minute assistance, suck it up and die like a man!"

There are many people who remain unvaccinated for a valid reason, not because they refused vaccination based on a conspiracy theory. If you refuse treatment then you should get your wish, assuming you're not a Clark K#nt imposing you will on a defenceless minor!


What are you on about?

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7484 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
What are you on about?
COVID is far from over or beaten.
Vaccines are as safe and effective as reasonably possible.
Health workers are taking sensible precautions, read the room.
Social media COVID deniers and anti-vaxers are full of sh1t, they should stand by their convictions.
There is still a price to pay, it's not over.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"