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Topic: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle (Read 40102 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #105 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I tend to agree.

I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......

I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

I think the brain snaps from Jones and Plowman can have a knock on impact to the younger guys. That sort of stuff is contagious. It got Weitering for a while there.

For Liverpool supporters you look at what Van Dyk was able to do when he joined the club. It wasn't just his own game but the confidence / calmness he was able to give his teammates. Lovren was like Jones. Pretty good athlete but so panicky and he made everyone else around him panicky also.

That's where I see our backline now. We'll struggle to play finals with panic merchants in the backline.

I actually think Williamson will be ok once he's surrounded by a calmer more settled unit.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #106 –
"I suspect MBB and Spanner must have been umpiring."
Heaven forbid LP, ripper thought though.
 

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #107 –
Quote from: DJC – on
You’re right EB, the conditions were very poor for most of the game and I imagine that Teague’s instructions would have been to gain territory with every disposal.  Most of our players were hacking the ball forward during periods of heavy rain and there were turnovers as a result.  That’s OK if we can then set up defensively and we were able to do that quite well most of the time. 

While it wasn’t a great spectacle, I still found it to be an entertaining game between two fairly evenly matched teams, even if inexplicable umpiring decisions (and non-decisions) gave Fremantle a leg up.  The down the ground free to Newnes was one occasion when an umpire got it right  :)

Despite the commentators drooling over Freo’s midfield, it was Curnow, Cripps, Murphy and Walsh that got on top and set up the win.  Plowman’s work on Fyffe was critical too.
Darcy kept drooling over Luke Ryan to the point of being vomit material, ditto with Cerra......agree on our mids doing the hard yards better although Longmuir taking Fyfe out of the midfield and having him freeze down forward helped as well..

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #108 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I tend to agree.

I'm going to say something that will change the way people see Willo....and once read, you will not be able to unsee.

Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.

The haphazard run off HB, the awkward handballing the fumbling and selling blokes into trouble......

I hope i'm wrong, but i'm seeing a lot of similarities.

Absolutely nothing like Paul Bower, I'll have no trouble unseeing it as I couldn't see it the first place.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #109 –
Quote from: laj – on
Our disposal. It's either horrible or brilliant as it was against Geelong and the Dogs. Bevo said our disposal efficiency into the F50 was off the chart against the Dogs, on a very wet night. Last night was on the horrible side.

Sometimes I'd rather they just kick a chaos ball into the F50 than just pick out a defender.
It was insane how many times that occured.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #110 –
Quote from: rocky – on
I'm sorry Krudd, I respect your insights but I have to disagree on this one. Paul Bower was an absolute donkey. As bad a panic merchant as I've seen. Decision making in the heat of battle was putrid. He was a dead set curse. To put Willo in this class is terribly unfair. He is still in Good, bad and ugly mode but I really have confidence he is improving. Watch this space.

Thats hindsight talking.

People forget, Paul Bower was persisted with for a long time before the panic merchant tag set in. He actually played 70 games for us. Willo has now played 25 games. You think if at the same time, Bower was looked at in the same light as he is now? After 25 games he was still looked at as having potential.

Now again, i'm not sure we can right Willo off yet.....but i'm definitely seeing a lot of similarities. I used to watch Bower closely back in the day - when we had the player threads.....and its concerning.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #111 –
re: Williamson = Bower.....thats about as bad as it gets in terms of comparisons, Rocky was right, Bower is in a class of his own in terms of panicking and being a deer in the headlights. Most fans would be livid but Bower became comical at the end, he couldnt perform basic skills properly Did a left handed handpass once at a critical point in a game that resembled John Howards attempts to bowl a cricket ball, fans were laughing it was that bad.
Williamson will need counselling if he reads he is being compared to Bower.....the former showed in his first season he is a very good footballer when fit and firing. I commend Teague for playing him and showing faith as he probably should have been dropped a while back, he needs work to build more confidence.
I probably would have played him off a wing where his turnovers didnt hurt the team so much and he could run a bit with more freedom and use that left foot.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #112 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
re: Williamson = Bower.....thats about as bad as it gets in terms of comparisons, Rocky was right, Bower is in a class of his own in terms of panicking and being a deer in the headlights. Most fans would be livid but Bower became comical at the end, he couldnt perform basic skills properly Did a left handed handpass once at a critical point in a game that resembled John Howards attempts to bowl a cricket ball, fans were laughing it was that bad.
Williamson will need counselling if he reads he is being compared to Bower.....the former showed in his first season he is a very good footballer when fit and firing. I commend Teague for playing him and showing faith as he probably should have been dropped a while back, he needs work to build more confidence.
I probably would have played him off a wing where his turnovers didnt hurt the team so much and he could run a bit with more freedom and use that left foot.

That was was really brought the comparison to mind. Willo did one last night.

FWIW, Bower was AA U18 CHB. Had bigger wraps on him than Willo did.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #113 –
The media have the memory of a gold fish. Clearly they are incapable of remembering the two shockers Freo got in the first quarter that gifted them goals. Not part of the narrative I guess.
The umpires didn't pay deliberate all night but I think they are instructed to be red hot in the last quarter if the game is tight. The free was there. You cannot crash into a player after he has kicked the ball, the free down field was there. Gibbons should have taken the kick.
Against Port I thought they were probably the better side on the day, though we should have closed it out in the end. Lat night I thought we were the better side on the night. Curnow was enormous, Cripps is starting to get into form, I thought against Hawthorn he played a selfish game, the last couple of weeks he has got back to being team orientated as well as getting the ball. He needs to nail those shots on goals if he wants to elevate from a very very good player to being a great. There seemed to be a media conspiracy to denigrate Sam Walsh earlier in the season but he has demonstrated what a fantastic player he is and going to be for a long time. There are a lot of Murphy haters on this site but he continues to get the ball and do a lot of work that goes unrecognized. Fisher added a bit of pace around the ball which was good. We really need to get more pace into the side. Dow, Cuningham, Honey, Philp and O'Brien should give us that run into the future. Cottrell looks a hard footballer. I like him.
Sos's last draft looks a real winner, on top of the young players we have brought in Betts, Martin, Newnes and Pittonet for a future 4th round pick and the trading of Andrew Phillips. We also seem to be nailing the late picks and the rookies, which has been the basis of Richmond surge to the top. Cottrell, Honey, and Gibbons are all rookies, and Williamson a late pick, along with Curnow, Casboult and Betts gives the team an underlying strength of players who had to work hard to get success.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #114 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
That was was really brought the comparison to mind. Willo did one last night.

FWIW, Bower was AA U18 CHB. Had bigger wraps on him than Willo did.


I do remember he did a dodgy handpass but the Fyfe steal that Cookie pointed out was a low point as Williamson looked dejected allbeit Fyfe is a beast of a player but the good Williamson wouldnt have been so easily stripped of the ball.
Yep Williamson was pick 60 odd and a real spec pick but did show plenty till he did his back and as you correctly stated Bower was a AA U18 CHB, problem with Bower was he never showed any glimpse of that U18 rating at all and it probably tells you how bad we were if a player like Bower could play 70 games..

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #115 –
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=I&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=6384&pid2=1626&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2010

Like for like comparison.....
Bower's season turning 22 vs Willos season turning 22.

Bower has it all over him.....except Clangers in which Willo has more.

Just saying.....

78.2%   Disposal Efficiency %   84.5%
Bower is the right......and HE was the one who kept turning it over?

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #116 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
i thought Willo has taken a few positive steps in the last few games...

The conditions were crapty last night and to a lesser extent against WCE.

No more fumbly than Doc quite frankly. Or Samo!
I actually thought Willo was pretty good. I'm going to give him a mention in the voting. Similarly Plowman and Jones. Both did stirling jobs and kept their opponents ineffective. Jones slaughtered Lobb, while Plow kept Fyffe quiet when he was forward, except for the first quarter. Cottrell was good value as well. SPS kept his man reasonably quiet, but had not effect on the game at all. Weitering was closest to lowering his colours for the first time this year.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #117 –
Well, we found a way to stop 30pt turnarounds..................play in a real low scorer where the result is 5 goals each...lol.

We did manage to have a 21pt run against us though, this time from the start.

Our record of being the only side not to score under 50pts went out the window too. At least it went out with a win.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #118 –
There were some very positive signs for us in the midfield. Kennedy did nothing and Newnes did nothing (until it counted), yet we won the clearances to losing rucks.
Our mids were really hard at. Setters didn't have a big night, but he was good in the clinches. Ed was great, Cripps appeared to be getting back to form, Murphy wasn't bad at all and Walsh was excellent.
De Koning shows a lot, but he isn't quite ready yet. I was happy about that.
I really hated the opportunities we threw away in the 3rd and 4th quarters. There was a period where we kicked 1 goal five. Five goals one and the game is over. And we mucked up going forward a lot.
Eddie was very quiet again. There must be real questions now on whether he goes on. Captain of the 2nds, perhaps, and part of coaching staff. He works very with the indigenous lads.

Owies kicked another three: worth a game?
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #119 –
Interesting early days I thought Williamson was set to be a HFF, that was were his best games seemed to be played.

I gather his back issues have put pay to the frequent direction changes that requires so they've concentrated on getting him off the HBF and he can use his aggression to attack the footy in front of him. Let's not forget he's hardly played much in the last few years, and he is only young.

Secondly, I'm not going to discount the attack on the football he brings just because he's fumbling a bit. His aggression has a significant affect on those around him, and therefore I think he is beneficial.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"