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Topic: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 34105 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #45 –
Quote from: LP – on
I'm not sure where this is coming from, the media has blown smoke up the ar5e of footy fans about the Filth being on the slide and the fans have sucked it up like a fresh breeze of Frankincense.

The Filth aren't as bad as the media make out, and with good fortune they will be in and around the finals again.

This result was writ large way before the first bounce, nothing that happened tonight was surprise, it's a tell and a dose of reality.

Yes, I agree, and I was one of those fans. Even on paper their list is better than ours. CFC fans, players and the club itself got a reality check tonight. Not sure what I was thinking...............

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #46 –
Quote from: BluesRock – on
It's not coming from the media. It's coming from the fact the Magpies, are on exposed form a far more ordinary team, admittedly, based on their last game but that's all we have to judge on for this season. There are other facts in my post which u don't acknowledge  or provide a view on. I'm not sure why?
@BluesRock‍  This was Rnd 2, the reality is one game is not really exposed form, and those good players do not lose what they know and do overnight? :o

They are a hard running, heavy bodied, fast (excluding Pendles) midfield, that puts us to the sword regularly even when we defeat them. Now to make things worse we are weakened in the ruck department.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #47 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Yes, I agree, and I was one of those fans. Even on paper their list is better than ours. CFC fans, players and the club itself got a reality check tonight. Not sure what I was thinking...............
This season, with the 6-6-6, Stand and lowered rotations, has made results dependant on the ruck dominance more than ever before, taps to advantage, with repeat efforts, tackles and shepherds matter more than ever. It might not be the main scoring cycle, but the tit for tat stops you making up ground once you've lost the centre break.

I hardly saw us lay a shepherd last night, the Filth laid plenty, not just Grundy but their whole team was invested in buying each other time and space! I watched plenty of Filth run right past one Carlton player unhindered to pressure or tackle another Carlton player. It's not even kiddy football standard! Fans get too obsessed with first hands on the ball, not that we got that either, but it's the little stuff that matters.

Give Grundy a clear tap and it's hitting a running Filth player on the chest more often than not, Pittonet's very same efforts are more likely to go 50/50 and it hurts us significantly! Don't get me wrong, Pittonet is a great 2nd Ruck option, far better than Levi, but if we are dependant on Pittonet to get us momentum we're in for a world of pain.

Again tonight we had Levi and Big H dropping relatively easy marks from front position, it's like they are greased up, having your KPF do that kills confidence and momentum, it's not just that one effort that is lost! Put our KPFs one out against a small defender and they are 50/50 at best, Mihochek or De Goey one out against our small defenders win 10/10. It's not the defenders that are the problem, it's our KPFs, Big H and Levi should dominate opponents 15cm shorter.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #48 –
In short, we don't seem to be getting any better. 😳
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #49 –
Quote from: spf – on
So were they right?

https://youtu.be/-1u84-JkRXA

Yep. And you could clearly see that Ross Lyon wanted to see us win... he was barracking! But he couldn't bring himself to select us to win. Often I don't get the criticisms of Lyon, he is an excellent student of the game and I wouldn't mind him mentoring our coaching group. He might be just the person to wake them up, and give them some new ideas or simply how to tweak, strategically, to get the best out of this group.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #50 –
We can get the ball in our hands, it's obvious because we get more inside 50's.
But we have for a looong time now and will continue to do so is bomb the ball in.
This bomb and hope thing is useless. We always seem to bomb it on top of our forwards head, never to advantage.
The filth showed us how to do it last night, forward setup running in patterns and away from each other.
The midfield / backs spotting up the forwards and honouring the lead. Their foot skills are way superior to us.
Williams, Saad and Martin are our accurate kickers, all coming from other clubs which suggests we are doing something wrong about kicking skills.
Who is our forward coach? who is our midfield coach? who is our back coach? who is our rucks coach? Therefore what does our main coach do???? And what do they do all summer???
Doing the same thing over and over again hoping for something different to happen??
That probably says more about us supporters (becoming more like casual observers) than the coaching staff  ::)

PS: Congratulations to the Carlton PR staff for sucking us in for another year of pain. They are the only ones who do their job well.
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #51 –
Quote from: LP – on
This season, with the 6-6-6, Stand and lowered rotations, has made results dependant on the ruck dominance more than ever before, taps to advantage, with repeat efforts, tackles and shepherds matter more than ever. It might not be the main scoring cycle, but the tit for tat stops you making up ground once you've lost the centre break.

I hardly saw us lay a shepherd last night, the Filth laid plenty, not just Grundy but their whole team was invested in buying each other time and space! I watched plenty of Filth run right past one Carlton player unhindered to pressure or tackle another Carlton player. It's not even kiddy football standard! Fans get too obsessed with first hands on the ball, not that we got that either, but it's the little stuff that matters.

Give Grundy a clear tap and it's hitting a running Filth player on the chest more often than not, Pittonet's very same efforts are more likely to go 50/50 and it hurts us significantly! Don't get me wrong, Pittonet is a great 2nd Ruck option, far better than Levi, but if we are dependant on Pittonet to get us momentum we're in for a world of pain.

Again tonight we had Levi and Big H dropping relatively easy marks from front position, it's like they are greased up, having your KPF do that kills confidence and momentum, it's not just that one effort that is lost! Put our KPFs one out against a small defender and they are 50/50 at best, Mihochek or De Goey one out against our small defenders win 10/10. It's not the defenders that are the problem, it's our KPFs, Big H and Levi should dominate opponents 15cm shorter.
I think if you are looking at outmarking the Collingwood defense that's your first mistake.
You won't be taking too many marks vs Moore, Roughead and Howe and the delivery has to be first rate. Your small forwards become more important and stopping easy defensive marks and getting the ball on the deck for Martin, Gibbons, etc is what we needed more of.
DeGoey ballsed up our defense because only Jones can play on him and we need him to play on Mihocek or the tall Cox.
Elliott has to also be viewed as a marking target and again its hard to find a match up.
Plowman had a shocker and when you add Williamson who was also poor we didn't have enough of the right type of defenders.
Docherty is also iffy vs marking players and we got lucky Elliott went off.
We had too many players down and the coaching box also had a poor night.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #52 –
Alarming pattern forming here...

0-2, meaning <5% chance of finals.

Coaching group showing themselves to be,  amateurs for want of a better word.   Not learning,  not doing enough scouting of opposition sides and key players.   Unresponsive on game day,  not proactive.   Like a VFL outfit if you ask me.   Surely the acid is coming for Teague,  and after displays like last night - he's bringing it on himself.

The same group of players making the same mistakes.   One bad game is human,  but two bad ones in a row is a trend.  Both the playing list and the coaches have serious issues here.

The mental and physical softness is alarming for a professional sport.  Not AFL standard.

Rocking up 'not ready to play' and second to the ball is inexcusable.  Another poor start resulted.

Didn't run the game out - again inexcusable - why? WTF is Russell doing?

Some examples of issues:

Playing blokes that are injured (Casboult)
 because more vaunted blokes are unavailable is inexcusable (MacG etc), this is what McDonald was signed for.   Dumb from both player and MC.

Blokes going on a season too long - Murphy case in point (note how his handballs always put the receiving player under the pump ?).

Blokes simply not giving us anything,  and been that way for an extended period.  Why aren't they getting better,  mitigating weaknesses?  WHY?

Ed Curow, hardest trier I've ever seen,  but if he can't tag effectively, why is he out there?

Williamson... Traffic cone ATM.    So why play him?   Liability.

Setterfield.... Slow and $@/!OMG soft.   We went hard to get this bloke,  and he serves up this tripe!?! Really? Liability.

Why is Docherty so shaky around the pill,  when he was AA? Another liability,  and he's captain for FFS.

Time to pension these blokes off and try somebody else.   There's plenty of talented,  hungry kids in the twos.

We've got deep,  systemic issues that are already bare to the world.   This is a club well and truly at the crossroads, this coach and list has failed and another reset is required.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #53 –
Mid possies, Cripps 21, Williams 20 and Martin 12....you won't beat many teams with those numbers, only Walsh delivered and is now our premier midfielder.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #54 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Call it conditioning, call it frustration, I woke up this morning feeling that we are just not that good. Just to the left of me in the stands last night were:
Betts
Gov
Jack S
Matty C
Nick Newman
plus all the youngies
Would any of them have made a difference last night? Doubt it.

Betts should have played.

Matt C., Matt Kennedy and Liam Stocker all have plenty of ticker and that's what we lacked out there last night.

Starting with our Captains, Cripps in particular.

Does he want to be at Carlton? He looks listless....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #55 –
IMO,  Cripps is a goner,  and I can see why.

We're not getting better,  we're irrelevant.

We're years behind in game style and how to structure a style to actually win games,  we play footy likes is 20 years ago.   It's obsolete methodology.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #56 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Yep. And you could clearly see that Ross Lyon wanted to see us win... he was barracking! But he couldn't bring himself to select us to win. Often I don't get the criticisms of Lyon, he is an excellent student of the game and I wouldn't mind him mentoring our coaching group. He might be just the person to wake them up, and give them some new ideas or simply how to tweak, strategically, to get the best out of this group.
If Lyon is mentoring he might as well have the full time job...
We need new assistants, our selection and planning is horrendous.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #57 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
Our skills are just not up to top flight standard.  The clear difference tonight was that the Pies hit the vast majority of their targets, while we sprayed it all over the place. 

Forget the score, we got owned tonight.   Their run through the middle chopped us up, which is why so many of their goals came from easy marks inside 50.


This was really evident at the ground. Every time they broke free, they seemed to link up really well.  Whereas, we would fumble or slip over(!!) or just miss a target

PS - to all those including Doc in the shockers, I thought he showed signs of a return to form.  There was one out on the full, but aside from that he looked pretty solid

The effectiveness inside 50 killed us - esp in the 3rd quarter.  Moore outpointed H a number of times (yet H still kicked 4 - which is a good sign).  But, there also seemed to be a different set of rules applied to H as was applied to Cox and a few others......

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
IMO,  Cripps is a goner,  and I can see why.

We're not getting better,  we're irrelevant.

We're years behind in game style and how to structure a style to actually win games,  we play footy likes is 20 years ago.   It's obsolete methodology.
Enter Clarkson!
2025... Moir of the same to come

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #59 –
The game is quicker especially with no moving man on the mark anymore and everyone playing on and Cripps can't keep up after the stoppage. He can't chase and looks stuffed late in the game..