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Topic: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 34178 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #75 –
Quote from: JonDorotich – on
But Paul he makes so many poor decisions
Better than Jones but still poor

Having said all of that there’s nobody better on our list that can play the role. What would we give for a Peter Dean or  Andy McKay?

Two top 5 and one top 10 finish in our B+F in the last few years suggest the coaches rate him. I think his problem is that he's extremely gentlemanly and honest. A pure ball player, like Geoff Southby on steroids. If the opposition like to go through him, as some on here suggest, I'm guessing it's mainly because they know he won't do anything naughty. His skills, ability to read the game etc. are not really that bad.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #76 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
You have to feel sorry for Plowman. He's our modern day Bret Thornton. Apart from injuries, he's been a mainstay in our defence since he got here. Another whipping boy he reminds me of is Zac Dawson.
Yes, in general he is not as bad as fans make out but he has those moments in every game, last night I thought he had a particularly bad 1/2 and it colours opinions of him.

It's hard to separate the player from the environment though, and Plowman wasn't the only player having a very ordinary 1/2 of football.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #77 –
Quote from: BluePhantom – on
We can get the ball in our hands, it's obvious because we get more inside 50's.
But we have for a looong time now and will continue to do so is bomb the ball in.
This bomb and hope thing is useless. We always seem to bomb it on top of our forwards head, never to advantage.
The filth showed us how to do it last night, forward setup running in patterns and away from each other.
The midfield / backs spotting up the forwards and honouring the lead. Their foot skills are way superior to us.
Williams, Saad and Martin are our accurate kickers, all coming from other clubs which suggests we are doing something wrong about kicking skills.
Who is our forward coach? who is our midfield coach? who is our back coach? who is our rucks coach? Therefore what does our main coach do???? And what do they do all summer???
Doing the same thing over and over again hoping for something different to happen??
That probably says more about us supporters (becoming more like casual observers) than the coaching staff  ::)

PS: Congratulations to the Carlton PR staff for sucking us in for another year of pain. They are the only ones who do their job well.

Carlton may well win the footy, but the path they take to goal often resembles the path I take on a golf course. If the direct line from Tee to pin is 400m, Ill hit/walk 1200m. Im just not a good golfer. I get a lot of exercise though.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #78 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
You have to feel sorry for Plowman. He's our modern day Bret Thornton. Apart from injuries, he's been a mainstay in our defence since he got here. Another whipping boy he reminds me of is Zac Dawson.

I don't think there's a defender in the country who could've prevented some of the gifts to Plow's opponents. He was let down by players further up the ground.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #79 –
Quote from: LP – on
Yes, in general he is not as bad as fans make out but he has those moments in every game, last night I thought he had a particularly bad 1/2 and it colours opinions of him.

It's hard to separate the player from the environment though, and Plowman wasn't the only player having a very ordinary 1/2 of football.

DeGoey, Elliott and I think Cox as well, are not easy match ups. You won't find many defenders that can go with those blokes, especially when they're firing. Our other defenders must have a secret stash of short straws just to spite him.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I don't think there's a defender in the country who could've prevented some of the gifts to Plow's opponents. He was let down by players further up the ground.

Yes agree. Too much of the Pies ball movement from the centre was effortless, worse than a training drill.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #81 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Yes agree. Too much of the Pies ball movement from the centre was effortless, worse than a training drill.
Who is the midfield coach, are you detecting any long term trends?

For me the answer to this question is not about being good or bad, it's more about making a break from the past.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #82 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
I was at the game (unfortunately).

We got smashed out of the guts from the get go.

My question, for those who saw the big picture - did Teague try and change anything to stop the bleeding? Tumbleweeds.

To me, nothing changed. No argument here.

And we were oh so predictable (and slow to move the ball forward). Yep.

Pies came to play, we didn't. Spot on. Preparation.

Some  'big name' players need to be playing in the magoos next weekend. Tick.

That effort last night was worse than unacceptable - and our leaders need to stand up and step up. On-field leadership well below par.

Has Cripps already gone (to WCE) mentally? Something is certainly up with Crippa, as a number of us have noticed.

He's a shadow of his 2019 self. Absolutely.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #83 –
You're not gonna win a game of chess against Boris Spassky if your opponent has always been your 97 year old grandmother.  Teague fails in that regard.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #84 –
Quote from: LP – on
Who is the midfield coach, are you detecting any long term trends?

For me the answer to this question is not about being good or bad, it's more about making a break from the past.

I'm not sure where the problem lies (or maybe it should be problems). The killer last night was that the Pies seemed to kick easy and quick goals, but in general play, I don't think it was as one sided as many suggest. If you look at some of the numbers, they were pretty good.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #85 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
DeGoey, Elliott and I think Cox as well, are not easy match ups. You won't find many defenders that can go with those blokes, especially when they're firing. Our other defenders must have a secret stash of short straws just to spite him.
I agree, but it's not just in those contests that our players get judged.

It's dropping chest marks, fumbling pick ups in the clear, missing targets or bombing the ball mindlessly to nobody. In fairness Plowman wasn't on his own in this regard.

Can you recall what MM did to Mitch Robinson after his goal line brain fade, can imagine what he would have said / done to Jones? I suspect Jones would have been put in a taxi with a torn up contract before leaving the ground!

Can you imagine what MM would have done to Levi, Big H or Cripps after yet another uncontested chest mark hit the deck?
( For the statisticians I offer a fans perspective. Regardless of what AFL statisticians claim, a 200cm leading KPF or KPD is not in a marking contest when they are 2m or 3m ahead of an opponent and drop or take a chest mark!  Was any chest mark considered contested back in Stick's or Doull's day? )

We've done it for so long I fear it is contagious!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #86 –
How depressing, I sat there with my teenage son and honestly wondered what I have got him into, he has never known a good Carlton side, frankly after the crap last night I don't think he will and I'm not confident that it will ever change.

We are seemingly incapable of developing young players, time after time good young talent arrives at our club and is slowly but surely  turned into what we see today.

We are not hard, we are not smart and we don't hate losing. Losing a contest, being beaten in the air or just being beaten in a one on one scrap, we just don't want it enough. Players with less than ten touches and no tackles, they must be dropped!

No more rebuilds, no more kids and drafts. Stand up and play, deliver now or out.

If the season does not dramatically alter, we need a fire sale approach at seasons end. Out with the promising and talented, in with hard bodies that are motivated and desperate to win.

I would much rather a team that gives 100% week in week out, craves the competition and gets done than this!

What happened to my old profile?????

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #87 –
Quote from: LP – on
I agree, but it's not just in those contests that our players get judged.

It's dropping chest marks, fumbling pick ups in the clear, missing targets or bombing the ball mindlessly to nobody. In fairness Plowman wasn't on his own in this regard.

Can you recall what MM did to Mitch Robinson after his goal line brain fade, can imagine what he would have said / done to Jones? I suspect Jones would have been put in a taxi with a torn up contract before leaving the ground!

I think the Malthouse /Jones relationship is similar to Ross Lyon / Zac Dawson. I think Mick would have roasted Liam over an outdoor fire, but I think Jones would have taken it the right way. Don't forget Mick brought him to the club.

Can I just just say, bearing in mind my perfect, unblemished record of dogged objectivity on the "coach question" it was Bolton who saved Jones career, and it was under Bolton that he played his best footy. And that goes for too many of our players - Docherty, Williamson, Dow, O'Brien, Cripps and others played better under Bolts.

Agree with the rest of your post.

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #88 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Can I just just say, bearing in mind my perfect, unblemished record of dogged objectivity on the "coach question" it was Bolton who saved Jones career, and it was under Bolton that he played his best footy.
@PaulP  I have to put forward a point of difference, it was Paul Brodie and Josh Fraser that saved Jones career.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2021 Rd 2: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #89 –
Quote from: LP – on
Who is the midfield coach, are you detecting any long term trends?

For me the answer to this question is not about being good or bad, it's more about making a break from the past.

To this end, I watched Cripps, Newnes and Setterfield closely and all three don’t track back.