Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

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Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #60 – April 05, 2021, 12:20:25 am

Great game from Jones but was well suited against a slower opponent. It is a shame that Jones and Weiters are both better suited to playing in space at HB than on the last line - maybe Oscar McD could be given a chance to resurrect his career down back to free them (and Plowman) to less defensive roles.

When he is ready, it will be interesting to see if the Gov can make a decent fist of playing as a leading forward now that there seems to be more room in which to lead.

I think Dow has improved but he often fails to take the ball cleanly on the first grab and can hold it too long. He suffers by comparison to Walsh who has such quick and clean hands.

Parks was good - kicking style is ungainly but, apart from one absolute shocker, he displayed nice touch when passing and roosted it a long way when he tried to. His defensive spoils were decisive as well.

Its amazing how much easier it all is when you win the centre clearances. Freo was poor but a win is a win.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #61 – April 05, 2021, 01:23:20 am

Harry kicked 7 because Betts ran blocking patterns for him on every lead sacrificing his own game ,he was always smart with his pressure acts and tackled when others stood back and watched. He contributed not with possessions but one per centers and smarts.
What a difference in having a contribution from a natural wingman in Cotterell defending,attacking and linking not setterfield who has no clue how to play there.
Williamson won’t play again unless we have more injuries Parks took marks, punched when he had to and was deceptively faster than I thought and he bled every mistake he played a bit what I thought marchbank was going to be but actually finished a game uninjured .
Silvagni’s attack and desire is never in doubt but really needs to kick the easy goals to be a star too many lazy set shots but I wish others had his tenacity he deserves his spot every week on grit.
Good to win but other teams looked better, sharper and kicked goals not points when surging Freo lookedlike a team that’s rudderless without Fyffe and spent all the petrol tickets last week in the heat. Been warm here in Perth even for training, a really sapping muggy heat and they looked it

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #62 – April 05, 2021, 05:30:35 am

Quote from: Raydan – on April 04, 2021, 08:20:15 pm

Good solid team game, no real brilliance but a 45 point win, playing a bruising style. I don't see why we would change the team at all, sure we may have had some quite players, but I saw someone write that Newnes should be dropped, I don't understand why 23 disposals, none overly flashy, but provided a nice link player to help get the handball chains going. Can't see how you'd drop Newnes.

I also fell through the floor when I saw that someone said Williamson needs to come back in, WHY? He's been crap this season and Parks did more in his first game that Willo has this season.

As for dropping Plowman, who's going to be that defender who goes to the best small or mid. Sure he got beat last week, but we had just one AFL listed defender playing in the VFL this week in Williamson, who was playing worse and could shut down anybody, cause he wear roller skates and slips over continually. When you've finished so high in the B&F for continual years, you will get the chance to redeem yourself, which I though Plowman did today, 10 marks and 21 poss with 327 meters gained.

As mentioned Fogarty is a great get, possibly the best of all three or at least an equal to. 25 disposals, 7 tackles, 3 clearances, 440 meters gained playing mainly as a HFF, plus his lowering of the eyes was outstanding. He's a 200 gamer.

Harry won't get it much easier than that, ball coming in low and fast, with a third rate backman on him who gave up front position all day long. It a shame that he only got 7 goals, Harry has to kick the left hand side of the field goals where he can't snap round the corner.

I got into Cripps last week, this week credit where it's due, he was much better, and he also did the hand over to a HFF on occasions, he played well as a forward and straight kicking shows there is some future in attack on a more regular basis. 34 Poss, 11 clearances and 2 goals. But they had a better balance across the centre with starting square of Cripps, Williams and Ed, with Walsh on the wing who had to be best on ground today 37 touches with 4 tackles and they were hard possessions.

Jones was outstanding down back, playing his own game, Gibbons was very good as well, same with Jack. It was a team win.

The first half especially reminded me of a Richmond type playing style, running in numbers and just the will to get the ball forward any way and arriving in number at every contest, get it to the right player to kick it forward.

Good note

I suggested that it will be hard to accommodate more than 2 of Newnes, Casboult, Murphy, Plowman & Curnow against the better sides. And I also suggested that I’d prefer to drop Murphy or Newnes rather than Dow.

All of the above can be more than serviceable on their day but they all have limited upside and with the exception of Murphy are all prone to making poor decisions under pressure at critical times, so I’d prefer to invest our time in younger players that may also make a mistake or two but that could take the next step and make us a much better side - Williamson, Dow, Stocker, Honey are all good examples.

Casboult is the most difficult of that group to replace as he is so important to us structurally until TDK returns.

Also I’m sure Williamson would also have given a great account of himself against a very weak Freo side and we shouldn’t compare form against Coll and Rich vs Freo.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #63 – April 05, 2021, 07:37:35 am

Quote from: RiverRat – on April 05, 2021, 12:04:51 am

WAS not IS. I really like old man Eddie but I doubt we can carry him and Murph in the same team.

If the team keeps performing and players in the reserves dominate and put their hand up, we will really see competition for spots heat up. Many players will be disappointed. I wouldn't change much this week vs GC, that said the MC will probably make 6

Horses for course I know but if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #64 – April 05, 2021, 07:51:37 am

There seems to be a general satisfaction with the performance, but it's still tinged with a fair bit of caution.
That probably stems from the fact that Fremantle were pretty awful.

We need to see a good follow-up effort, and probably a win against a better team before folks start to feel more comfortable.

Some really good individual efforts yesterday.
McKay is going to be a real concern for opposition coaches.
Walsh is going like a train...only concern is under the new rules whether he can sustain it for a full season....ran his guts out yesterday but even exhausted he kept going (may need a bit of management as the season progresses).
Liked Parks' first game and he'll only be better for the run and I like the energy Cottrell brings.
Fogarty...great pick-up. He's the kind of 'soldier' great sides are built on.
As I mentioned earlier Silvagni has taken a step forward this year. He looks stronger and a little quicker....that's what we need to see with 'development'. It's what we need to see with players like Dow and LOB...that step forward each season.
Cripps was back to what he does best, and monstered Freo.

Something that is really noticeable, and sometimes forgotten...players are often criticised for poor performances, but often it's the make-up of the opposition that dictates whether they will have a good day or a shocker.
Players match up better against different sides. Jones was really good yesterday....he had the match-ups that suited him.
Last week McKay did OK against one of the better defenders in the comp but was probably beaten on the day. Yesterday Freo had no answer to him.
That also goes for teams.
Freo was a good match-up for us yesterday.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #65 – April 05, 2021, 08:21:30 am

Parkes and Cotters definitely deserve another game next week. It's a question of who made a pressing case for selection in the VFL to displace anyone imo. Didn't see that game, maybe someone who did could comment? The only change I would consider is Paddy Dow but maybe we need to persevere with him for another game or two? It could be just a confidence thing.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #66 – April 05, 2021, 08:25:25 am

Quote from: Lods – on April 05, 2021, 07:51:37 am

There seems to be a general satisfaction with the performance, but it's still tinged with a fair bit of caution.
That probably stems from the fact that Fremantle were pretty awful.

We need to see a good follow-up effort, and probably a win against a better team before folks start to feel more comfortable.

Some really good individual efforts yesterday.
McKay is going to be a real concern for opposition coaches.
Walsh is going like a train...only concern is under the new rules whether he can sustain it for a full season....ran his guts out yesterday but even exhausted he kept going (may need a bit of management as the season progresses).
Liked Parks' first game and he'll only be better for the run and I like the energy Cottrell brings.
Fogarty...great pick-up. He's the kind of 'soldier' great sides are built on.
As I mentioned earlier Silvagni has taken a step forward this year. He looks stronger and a little quicker....that's what we need to see with 'development'. It's what we need to see with players like Dow and LOB...that step forward each season.
Cripps was back to what he does best, and monstered Freo.

Something that is really noticeable, and sometimes forgotten...players are often criticised for poor performances, but often it's the make-up of the opposition that dictates whether they will have a good day or a shocker.
Players match up better against different sides. Jones was really good yesterday....he had the match-ups that suited him.
Last week McKay did OK against one of the better defenders in the comp but was probably beaten on the day. Yesterday Freo had no answer to him.
That also goes for teams.
Freo was a good match-up for us yesterday.

I think they did what we needed to do against an opposition that have troubled us in the past regardless of personnel available. It will give our players some confidence, hopefully not overconfidence though. What was drummed into them during the week was the work rate, agressiveness and effort required, that's probably what they mainly got out of it. Execution is still a problem at times, that will improve with confidence as long as the effort, agressiveness and intensity are there.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #67 – April 05, 2021, 08:29:28 am

If there are any changes after that, it might be Williams who might be injured.

Levis only saving grace when when his shear bulk caused an injury to freo after he dove into a pack. Did not much else from there. Still reckon Oscar could offer the same and more.

Parks showed more in that game than I've seen from LOB in all his. Pleasant surprise.

You can see why players like Cottrell and Silvagni were brought in, and why people have been calling for them to be in. It changes the way we play

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #68 – April 05, 2021, 09:18:46 am

Quote from: RiverRat – on April 05, 2021, 12:04:51 am

WAS not IS. I really like old man Eddie but I doubt we can carry him and Murph in the same team.

I'll agree to disagree.

I rate Fisher, but still prefer him in the middle personally.

Teague mentioned the blocking work done by Betts on behalf of the key forwards, Harry in particular.

EB1 suggests Betts is cooked. Just don't see any evidence for that. There were a lot of pressure acts last night and the goal was a stark reminder of what he can do - off both feet.

He was our fastest measured player last year, in game.

Sure, the ball didn't fall his way much last night but he did plenty without ball in hand.

I tend to agree it's Betts or Murphy too.

But like Fisher, would prefer to see whether Murph can still be an influential midfielder....

He's got time to cement a spot if Fisher is sidelined for 6 weeks or so. We'll see.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #69 – April 05, 2021, 09:22:02 am

I thought it was important that The TT, in his after match media conference, mentioned that he was pleased with 3 quarters of our effort - having the game on our terms, the way we wish to play. The little lapses in the 3rd and final qtr should not go by unnoticed - against better opposition those lapses could easily have turned into one of the 4-7 consecutive goals against, scenarios.

Although not dominant by any stretch, I think if folks look closely at Edwardo's contribution you'll see considerable defensive pressure and defensive acts that prevented Freo from leaving our forward line and made our forward line a lot more dangerous.

I am not in the pro Levi camp. The ball bounced of his hands too often and we've seen this loss of confidence before, and it does cost us.

The Murphy offensive game was serviceable, but his total lack of defensive pressure and pressure acts does cost us. How long can we carry this? Are we that good we can carry a defensive pressure deficit?

SOJ is such an important part of the forward line. Footy smarts / IQ easily outweighs any perceived lack of pace. So valuable. He also brings that intangible 'energy', as does Cottrell. Opponents can't snuff that out and it does lift those around them.

Parks showed plenty that should encourage us all.

Fogarty - welcome. Barring injury, your name will end up on a locker at PP. Ripper.

Dow? Something just aint there. Will it come in time? Who knows.

Jones - one of his best.

I think Saad and Williams are still settling in and will only get better, much better. And they're already pretty bloody good!!!

Glad to see Crippa play with a bit of sh1te on his liver, bring that each week big fella and opponents will be filling their durps. You might just be one of those blokes who needs to play a little angry.

Gibbo really should be given more midfield time. Good to see Ed lift. Pitto provides a tough contest and knows his limitations... I confess to being a bit of a fan of the big fella - great attitude.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #70 – April 05, 2021, 09:30:28 am

I thought we were very good upto the middle of the third quarter, and then we took our foot off the gas and started to make dumb decisions with ball in hand and we let them back into the game. For the last quarter and a half it was pretty ordinary footy, but the game was won.

For a team in our position you would love to see us win that game by 80-100 points which I felt we probably should have, such was the gap between the 2 teams.

The biggest issue for me was Levi - he was putrid again imo. If he wasn't playing McKay would have kicked 12 - but Levi often leads his man too where McKay is leading rather than blocking or providing a dummy lead to provide more space for Harry. Against such an under manned defence he really should be doing damage in his own right, but he was very poor. Up until 3qtr time when the game was actually there to be won he had 5 possessions and went at 41% DE overall.

He looks unfit and jogs around the forward line most of the time in the wrong spot. Off the back of his first 2 weeks I would not have played him and I can't see why McDonald isn't given a chance to show whether he can give us more than Levi can.

I love Eddie - but I reckon he will get 2-3 games to prove he can still cut it. Yesterday he was next to invisible - did a couple of nice things and he is always thinking about how to create opportunities for others as much as himself, but when we were dominating against a poor opposition in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs he touched the ball once [which was a great goal]. From a team balance perspective I am not convinced that he and Murphy can both play.

Also impressed with Parks because I think he can be an important link between the talls and the smaller running players. He was desperate and pretty composed with ball in hand and didn't panic [which has been a hallmark of our defence for some time]. Doc played a much better game yesterday, as did Plow and Jones, so that's a tick for the setup. We are still poor as a defence at communicating and working together which is frustrating at this level - the number of times we spoil each other or have 2/3/4 up in a marking contest [look at their goal middway thru the last when all 4 of Plow, Jones, Weiters and Parks flew in a pack and all of them ended up on the ground and the Freo guys walked into open goal] is incredible. The lack of communication from the smaller defenders to call guys in or out is really poor and they need to get that sorted quick smart.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #71 – April 05, 2021, 10:20:27 am

I was very happy with the way we played in the 1st half. We lacked a little poise at time, but the aggression was there. It simply wasn't there against Collingwood.

I was quite pleased with Eddie's game in the first half. He got most of his possessions then. He really was the General down there and his defensive pressure was excellent. I couldn't believe it when he had so few tackles.

H: if he can ever learn to kick straight ...

I think the biggest difference between Paddy Dow at the moment and Walsh is Walsh's clean ball handling. Paddy fumbles too much. Another thing is work rate. Walsh gets where the ball is, or where it is going. Paddy's still working on that.
I think Dow has improved this season. He needs a really big game and the confidence that brings to take the next step.
That said, I'd still be tempted to have him get a run in the VFL and have another mid come in. Conditions on the Gold Coast would suit a guy like Kennedy. Maybe we might give one of the others a game.

For all of the improvement in the way we attacked the ball, I still wish we could be that bit harder, like Richmond. They push the rules and get away with it. We need to do that too. Similarly, the way Sydney played on the weekend impressed me.

I thought Cottrell was good, especially as he came in at the last minute. Park showed a bit, and he was confident to go for his marks.

Pittonet was good yesterday and we smashed Freo in the midfield, but it did show our relative weakness in that area. Levi didn't get many taps and doesn't look 100%. He competed hard enough, and flew for his marks, but it just isn't happening for him at the moment. If Witts doesn't play next week we might be able to give Levi some time in the VFL to get some form and fitness.
I was quite surprised at how much Lloyd Meek has improved as a ruckman. He never used to get off the ground playing for GWV. He got his hands on the ball quite a lot. I would have loved to have a ruck like Tom de Koning against him, as Tom is so much more mobile. But, if wishes were horses, we'd be up to our necks in horse Kaka.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #72 – April 05, 2021, 10:24:58 am

Didn't think we'd win this game as I've been underwhelmed with team performance r1 and2.

Very glad to be wrong and a win is a confidence builder. Still lots to work on but happy for a W. Hopefully we can put 22 fit tenacious boys on the deck next week.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #73 – April 05, 2021, 10:34:16 am

Quote from: DJC – on April 04, 2021, 11:45:29 pm

That's a recipe for disaster!

I wouldn't be promoting McGovern on the basis of average form in a VFL practice match. I also wouldn't be undervaluing Casboult's contribution as back up ruckman and foil for Harry ... and he made a mess of a couple of Freo players.

I thought Dow was OK too and he was set up with a couple of hospital handpasses. I'd like to see Stocker get a run but, once again, patchy form in a VFL practice match shouldn't be enough to displace Dow.

Both have done it with both before without issues. Going to have to do it when Charlie comes back anyway later in the year. Jones relished it in the VFL crushing bodies and enjoying a free run around the ground. It's for a few min a qtr. Levi is out of form, come into the season underdone. Gov is finally fit and looked the part on the weekend. Willy has been a top VFL side for years. Stocker was up with out best Saturday.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #74 – April 05, 2021, 10:41:44 am

Quote from: RiverRat – on April 05, 2021, 12:03:10 am

That was against VFL opposition - I wouldn't risk him.

That's where you show you can do it. It's just a few min a qtr.

Charlie will come back later in the year, then we won't have a choice as I doubt Levi will be playing when he does. One of Jones or McKay, or both, will have to relief ruck a few min a qtr.