AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

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Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #90 – April 28, 2024, 03:13:18 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on April 28, 2024, 02:46:25 pm

If its one thing Vossy knows its that once you get to finals, everything that comes before means nothing.

The way Leigh Matthews used to get his side cheery ripe for finals and dominate despite never finishing top.
2001 - 2004
2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd - Flag, flag, flag, runners up.

Same with Hardwick and Richmond. They went flag, PF, flag, flag. Only year they finished on top was the year they didn't win.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #91 – April 28, 2024, 03:20:43 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on April 28, 2024, 02:19:44 pm

If anyone had any doubts about Pittonets ruck ability after yesterdays efforts then they don't understand football.

Not sure many doubted him or his ruck ability.
You're the one who wanted to leave him out of the side

One of the things that's really impressive is his use of handball at the moment.
He's standing in tackles and dishing it off.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #92 – April 28, 2024, 03:47:52 pm

Quote from: Lods – on April 28, 2024, 03:20:43 pm

One of the thing that's really impressive is his use of handball at the moment.
He's standing in tackles and dishing it off.

For me, it's Pitto's strength that allows him to push off opponents under the new ruck rules, which basically makes him more agile than he would be if he was just in a flat foot race to the footy. If opponents grab his arm they are likely to get pinged for holding, and when Pitto pushes off he becomes another ground ball player, he is above average below the knees for a bloke his size.

In this regard the "strong arm" rule is perhaps better for Pitto than say Nankervis or McInerney who are less mobile.

I always thought the go for TDK would be to play similarly, basically concede the tap with a minimal effort but push off to recover and become another midfielder in the chain of play. You either assist team-mates or become a road block for opponents, but you must always be one or the other.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #93 – April 28, 2024, 03:49:40 pm

Quote from: Lods – on April 28, 2024, 03:20:43 pm

Not sure many doubted him or his ruck ability.
You're the one who wanted to leave him out of the side

One of the thing that's really impressive is his use of handball at the moment.
He's standing in tackles and dishing it off.

Plenty did and kept saying how useless those stats were and how he does nothing around the ground too.

Can't hear any of that now.

Even i underestimated his abilities.

Its imagine what a player can do when he gets back to full fitness.

My preference is still to play 1 ruck and have another player give a chop out, but that other player needs to be able to hold down another spot on his own merits. Currently, TDK is doing that with the absense of a 3rd tall in Silvagnis mold. The moment TDK drops off up forward is the moment he or Pitto needs to be dropped.

Then its a matter of who you think is best and why.

....and thats the part people cant agree on because different people weigh up different areas differently.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #94 – April 28, 2024, 03:59:14 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on April 28, 2024, 03:49:40 pm

Plenty did and kept saying how useless those stats were and how he does nothing around the ground too.

Can't hear any of that now.

Even i underestimated his abilities.

Its imagine what a player can do when he gets back to full fitness.

My preference is still to play 1 ruck and have another player give a chop out, but that other player needs to be able to hold down another spot on his own merits. Currently, TDK is doing that with the absense of a 3rd tall in Silvagnis mold. The moment TDK drops off up forward is the moment he or Pitto needs to be dropped.

Then its a matter of who you think is best and why.

....and thats the part people cant agree on because different people weigh up different areas differently.

That's the thing though
Pittonet and Tom 'are' very different ruckmen.

And both would be well within the best 22 at the moment.
Would you drop Pittonet or Tom to add 'one of' Cincotta, Binns, Durdin, Owies, Carroll, Cowan, either Hollands etc etc.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #95 – April 28, 2024, 03:59:33 pm

I didn't give him a vote, but plenty impressed with Boyd, gets better every week.

Made a few mistakes that burned some opportunities, but fixed most of them, his relentless 2nd efforts are A-Grade, others need to watch his intensity.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #96 – April 28, 2024, 04:03:48 pm

Quote from: Lods – on April 28, 2024, 03:59:14 pm

And both would be well within the best 22 at the moment.
Would you drop Pittonet or Tom to add 'one of' Cincotta, Binns, Durdin, Owies, Carroll, Cowan, either Hollands etc etc.

Agreed, they are automatics at the moment, Midfield and Ruck is not our problem.

If anything yesterday perhaps we got it wrong with Charlie and BigH, should have got up the ground a bit more and made themselves an annoyance for Cameron? Most rucks can't go with Cameron, so you either need a big mobile KPD or you have to find ways to make him accountable, if Cameron charges off up the ground to become the loose man in defence, make his opponent a focus.

Sounds easy.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #97 – April 28, 2024, 04:35:50 pm

Its more to do with the service Cameron was getting from their high half and small forwards.. they were the problem imo. Defensive transitioning to plug in holes wasn't good enough as lacked run - team defence wasn't where it should be and that needs to be fixed this week.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #98 – April 28, 2024, 04:51:36 pm

Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone – on April 28, 2024, 10:47:40 am

Yep. My TV barely survived that one.

Further to that, doesn’t matter which player of ours it was, why the hell were they 3 metres away? For god’s sake, if anyone should have a player’s hand placed on their chest by way of tracking their position in space and time, it’s Cameron - especially when the game’s on the line in the last few minutes.

Yes, can't help but agree totally. Where was the Carlton player whose job was to wear Cameron (Geelong's most dangerous forward) like a skin? At least Binnsie tried to man up, but hardly his role.
Feel for our coaches watching on such inept defensive work

Ab

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #99 – April 28, 2024, 05:04:33 pm

Quote from: Adelaideblue – on April 28, 2024, 04:51:36 pm

Yes, can't help but agree totally. Where was the Carlton player whose job was to wear Cameron (Geelong's most dangerous forward) like a skin? At least Binnsie tried to man up, but hardly his role.
Feel for our coaches watching on such inept defensive work

Ab

No doubt Voss was disppointed with the whole defensive effort, but that one would have been particularly 'triggering' just prior to the after match presser.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #100 – April 28, 2024, 05:19:43 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on April 28, 2024, 12:19:25 pm

Williams is not a defender per se', we all know that and Chris Scott exploited it to perfection. Unfortunately, his team mates (in defence) let him down by lack of support. Zac is a creative run and carry HB with good disposal skills, yesterday he was taken to places he just didn't want to go to. He and his team mates will review it and learn. The key to a premiership is a solid, consistant back 6 or 7, whilst we are treading water at the minute, we aren't are premiership threat right now due to the disruption of the defensive unit. Once we get them back and they can regain their cohesion and consistency, then will we see if we are contenders or not.

You cant be on 800k a year and turn the ball over like he did vs good teams like Geelong. As was pointed out by "Pinot"his efforts or lack of led to 3-4 goals being scored by Geelong and the attacking value he gives isnt worth his lack of defensive prowess. His disposal is way overrated imho and I wouldnt have him in my best 22 and he is very fortunate we are down on troops with injury and he doesnt have much competition for his spot.
Stengle at 175cm/73kg outbodied Zac 183cm/84kg in the goal square for an easy mark and goal which was just garbage defense from our man imo...its very hard to hold your place in the backline as an attacking only player and your skillset and decision making has to be at the Nick Daicos level to get away with it and Zac is nowhere near that high bar.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #101 – April 28, 2024, 05:30:56 pm

Quote from: madbluboy – on April 28, 2024, 10:13:37 am

If he staged then he should be suspended. I would like the AFL to come out and say it was a free kick or he staged.

Watched it a few times on video and there appears to be high contact of sorts but ZW also appears to have exaggerated the force of the contact and the umpires ignored it due to the extra mayo he applied.
It probably should have been a free but you cant expect to get those all the time either and he should have played through the contact and not let Geelong(Henry) have a zero contest situation.
The umpires were terrible overall imo and let play go especially holding the ball/man situations and you just have to be able to read the game and how its being umpired and know that it was unlikely they would make that call as high contact imho and not gamble they might.
Saying all that I have just read Henry has been charged with striking Zac Williams which I presume was the same incident so the MRO has deemed the contact severe enough and should have been a free kick to our man ....more to play out in this saga and you were justified in calling for the AFL to adjudicate on the decision.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #102 – April 28, 2024, 05:40:25 pm

Quote from: LP – on April 28, 2024, 03:59:33 pm

I didn't give him a vote, but plenty impressed with Boyd, gets better every week.

Made a few mistakes that burned some opportunities, but fixed most of them, his relentless 2nd efforts are A-Grade, others need to watch his intensity.

X 2 regards his improvement.
I said as much in the game thread.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #103 – April 28, 2024, 06:10:39 pm

Quote from: Lods – on April 28, 2024, 03:59:14 pm

That's the thing though
Pittonet and Tom 'are' very different ruckmen.

And both would be well within the best 22 at the moment.
Would you drop Pittonet or Tom to add 'one of' Cincotta, Binns, Durdin, Owies, Carroll, Cowan, either Hollands etc etc.

Right now, i'd drop Young for Cincotta. Give Kemp the lockdown role and allow Cincotta to cover the intercept role, which adds more run.

When the game starts getting wetter, you'd think about dropping one more tall. We'll wait and see who is out of form at the time.
The decision is made easier right now because we don't have Silvagni available, or any other option for 3rd tall.

There was never any doubt about their 'styles of ruck' or that they compliment eachother. The issue was they they were both doing not very much around the ground.....at all.
TDK was lacking in ruck area, and performing worse than Silvagni as a forward......but better than Pittonet as a non-ruck option.
Pittonet was performing better in the ruck, but not doing enough around the ground.

BOTH of them are not only performing better around the ground, but both are being genuine options around the ground and up forward.
Pittonet kicked a goal first game back. TDK kicked 3 last week, and 0.3 this week. I showed stats on pittonets ruck AND around the ground work and how it was the same or better than both rucks combined....and even 2 mids combined in clearances.
That kind of form from both of them was nowhere to be seen last year. THAT is what has changed......and thankfully its changed when the cupboard is very bare behind them.

However,
Once we start getting players back, if you want to play both rucks in your 22, you are leaving out someone like Kennedy, Cottrell, Hollands (x2), Williams.....etc.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #104 – April 28, 2024, 06:35:31 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on April 28, 2024, 05:19:43 pm

You cant be on 800k a year and turn the ball over like he did vs good teams like Geelong. As was pointed out by "Pinot"his efforts or lack of led to 3-4 goals being scored by Geelong and the attacking value he gives isnt worth his lack of defensive prowess. His disposal is way overrated imho and I wouldnt have him in my best 22 and he is very fortunate we are down on troops with injury and he doesnt have much competition for his spot.
Stengle at 175cm/73kg outbodied Zac 183cm/84kg in the goal square for an easy mark and goal which was just garbage defense from our man imo...its very hard to hold your place in the backline as an attacking only player and your skillset and decision making has to be at the Nick Daicos level to get away with it and Zac is nowhere near that high bar.

I hear you brother, I agree completely. Drafting him in the first place was a mistake (IMO), promised him a gig in the midfield which failed miserably. His deficiencies in defence get masked somewhat by the likes of Saad, Gov and even Doc when he played there. Right now, we have a defender shortage and he has to do a defensive job, he failed miserably on the weekend.