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Topic: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 22126 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #105 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Watched the McGovern kick after the siren, FMD could not have kicked it any worse if he tried.
Should never be in a position where you need that last kick scenario so Im not dirty on McGovern...the Cox free kick was more of an issue for me and why Newman was opposed to him and having the wrong type of player on Cox influenced that outcome where the umpires assumed rather than were sure of the facts.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #106 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
your stats are fine their value is bogus.

Those repeat efforts build pressure to create the opportunities you do score from.

Being better at it is one facet, but the value of converting good opportunities outweighs whatever your stats were trying to convey.

So....repeat entries create pressure and help us score....sure.....even though we scored more when we didn't need repeat entries.

Not sure what you think you are trying to say, but i'd back the stats over whatever you are trying to spin.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #107 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
So....repeat entries create pressure and help us score....sure.....even though we scored more when we didn't need repeat entries.

Not sure what you think you are trying to say, but i'd back the stats over whatever you are trying to spin.
who's spinning?

We kicked 5 goals 1 in quarter 4.

We kicked 1 goal 8 in quarter one.

But we were more efficient in the first because our 9 scoring shots came without the domination?  Is that what you're saying?  Don't know how valuable that is, but I can distinctly recall looking at 3.11 at half time and stating we should be 6 goals 8.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #108 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
who's spinning?

We kicked 5 goals 1 in quarter 4.

We kicked 1 goal 8 in quarter one.

But we were more efficient in the first because our 9 scoring shots came without the domination?  Is that what you're saying?  Don't know how valuable that is, but I can distinctly recall looking at 3.11 at half time and stating we should be 6 goals 8.

We had the ball inside 50 an extra 8 times in the 4th quarter and hit the scoreboard 3 times less than the 1st.
We were more accurate with our shots on goal as we converted them. But we were not efficient with our inside 50 entries.
Had we have been more efficient, we should've generated an extra 6 shots than we did that quarter. Even if we were inaccurate with those shots, we still win.

We need to work out why our inside 50's didn't result in more shots on goals. Not simply be happy that we kicked straighter as that papers over the cracks.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #109 –
Scoring is not the problem.

We are the highest scoring team in the league.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #110 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Scoring is not the problem.

We are the highest scoring team in the league.

Yes, it's like a Teague / Ratten profile. 1st in points for, 14th in points against (i.e 5th worst in the league). That's stark. Not sure where the leak is occuring, or if there's multiple leaks in different parts of the ground.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Yes, it's like a Teague / Ratten profile. 1st in points for, 14th in points against (i.e 5th worst in the league). That's stark. Not sure where the leak is occuring, or if there's multiple leaks in different parts of the ground.


We are worst in the league at conceding goals from defensive 50 stoppages.
Think we are 2nd worst from conceding goals from clearances.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #112 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
We had the ball inside 50 an extra 8 times in the 4th quarter and hit the scoreboard 3 times less than the 1st.
We were more accurate with our shots on goal as we converted them. But we were not efficient with our inside 50 entries.
Had we have been more efficient, we should've generated an extra 6 shots than we did that quarter. Even if we were inaccurate with those shots, we still win.

We need to work out why our inside 50's didn't result in more shots on goals. Not simply be happy that we kicked straighter as that papers over the cracks.
It's called an opposition defence that was committed to preventing us scoring and had already setup a winning position.

The variance in start and finish was more about what Collingwood weren't doing (attacking through the corridor at speed) and keeping their numbers behind the ball. 

That left less space to explot which resulted in us having to try force stoppages which Collingwood were happy with as it takes time off the clock and allows you to clog space.

The game is very simple. Earlier on, we failed to score as effectively because we weren't changing our angles with our forward entries and that caused us grief but we were able to generate score because Collingwood were giving us room to attack whilst they attacked themselves.

Collingwood are a tactically more well drilled side than us.  That is an MC failing. Remember when Bolton was sacked, teague simplified the game plan?

All I've seen us do is revert to a game plan tailored around good players, rather than a system based game plan.  Our systems don't stand up, and fall down.  All anyone says is we are missing key cattle personnel.   That's because the system doesn't stand up without the stars.  Most teams struggle without their a team as they're better at executing the system.  We struggle without our a team because our system is still being built. 

Partly because we don't have a 400 game, dual premiership brownlow medalist leading the way.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #113 –
Charlie in D50, or Harry in the Ruck and D50, is a win for the opposition not a win for us.

It's pointless fans complaining that we had 1 goal between them, when they are in range of goals.

We took a clear A-Grade strength, and turned it into a B-Grade weakness.

All those "terrific 1st Qtr I50s", barely crossed the 50m line, it's a lie of statistics, our entries were shallow and wide and largely ineffective.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #115 –
Our defenders aren't mostly 'defensive' defenders.
They're 'attacking' defenders.
That's their strength.
One of our best defensive players is following the best opposition midfielder around most of the time (and doing a good job of it).

But attacking defence comes with risks, as the players back themselves.
Any mistake can be costly.
It's out of kilter but it's probably the best we can do given our list.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #116 –
That must be the worst post siren shot on goal by a Carlton player since Kernahan missed against Essendon at the MCG in 1993. He was 45 metres out on a slight angle and the ball finished 30 metres from the centre of the goal.
Watching the game I believe that is our best forward line. Martin, Motlop and E.Hollands provide class, Owies and Fogarty the blue collar grunt and the twin towers in Curnow and McKay give us direction.
I think the backline is the preferred option of the Club at the moment, with Young as an option to replace Kemp though he was okay against Collingwood. So Weitering, McGovern, Saad, Boyd, Newman, Cincotta Kemp, though maybe Young is how I would go.
I also think losing Cerra and to a lesser extent Cottrell will be good for the midfield. It hasn't functioned since they brought these guys in without going through the Reserves. Hewitt had got so on top of Daicos that Pendlebury didn't want Daicos anywhere near the stoppages. I think Cerra has disrupted the midfield balance, even though he is a classy player, the Walsh Cripps Batman and Routine hasn't functioned since Cerra came back. At least in the last quarter Walsh was getting near the ball though his disposal was still poor. This may be related to his back issues. Obviously with TDK out, the midfield is Pittonett, Cripps,  Walsh,  Kennedy, Hewitt, Acres and O.Hollands and either Carroll or Binns. I would go with Binns because he is a wingman and Voss likes playing with three wings. I would like to point out that while Pittonett was killed for three quarters his last quarter was one of the reasons we got back into the game.
If Williams is fit I would make him the Sub.
Except for Mihocek being out, that was probably Collingwood's best side and they were certainly up and about. Even though we were one player down in the second half, it wasn't until we didn't think we could win that we relaxed and just started playing football and the game turned around. We still dropped marks, fumbled the ball, missed our targets, missed shots on goal, and made poor decisions with the ball in hand, but we were all over them and we should have won in the end.
Five weeks ago we were second and thinking flags, now we are eigth and we are wondering whether we will make the eight. As I have said our problems are our mindset and the team's culture. Things that are both easy and hard to fix.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #117 –
Our game plan seems to be one of trying to win games in one qtr and of holding the fort for the other three. We’re not good enough to successfully execute that plan at the moment.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #118 –
Bad kicking is bad football.   We outplayed them in the first Q, but had nothing to show for it.  Outplayed them in the last Q, and capitalsied on it.   They outplayed us in Q2 and 3 and hit the scoreboard

It is still a big worry how easily we get openned up, when the oppo slingshot against us.  Just waltze thru the middle, with 3 or 4 players running, against 1 of ours.  Esp (as someone earlier said), when its someone dynamic like Degoey.  None of our mids have that explosion like him.    Although the Hawks lost, they did a lot of this v GWS, and we need to somehow stop it, or we could get scored against heavily.   commentators kept menitoning pies scoring 3 or 4 goals from kick ins.  this should NOT happen. they made us work so hard to get it out from a kick in, and we let them run it thru the corridor

We dont look dangerous entering f50 - even when we have a break, and a numbers advantage.  we just dont score easily, its always tough work.

other teams have worked out that centre clearances are our strenght, and they are stopping it (sometimes borderline illegally with cameron just grabbing pitto at each bounce, and crippa and walsh being faceguarded),  but it is working.  even allowing the pies to walk away with easy possessions, when the clearance didnt go our way

still like to lay some blame on umpiring (cox with 4 touches, 2 being bsht frees and one being that "mark"....   charlie didnt play well, but wasnt helped by being blocked and held off the ball, every time a chance to fly occurred.....)  and some lucky (for them) and unlucky (for us) bounces...........

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #119 –
Speaking if tactics, keep your eye on the bench.  I've seen the blue smilie face go up at our bench, and all that seems to lead to is static play, long kicking down the line to a contest and somehow conceding goals.  I'm sure that's not the idea behind it, but it always seems to be shown in quarters 2 and 3, and correlates with our worst footy.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson