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Poll

Who is in our best 22?

1 - Jack Silvagni ** ineligible, out for year**
[ 0 ] (0%)
2 - Lachie Cowan
[ 8 ] (2.8%)
3 - Jesse Motlop
[ 2 ] (0.7%)
4 - Oliver Hollands
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
5 - Adam Cerra
[ 9 ] (3.2%)
6 - Zac Williams
[ 12 ] (4.2%)
7 - Matt Kennedy
[ 12 ] (4.2%)
8 - Lachie Fogarty
[ 5 ] (1.8%)
9 - Patrick Cripps
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
10 - Harry McKay
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
11 - Mitch McGovern
[ 12 ] (4.2%)
12 - Tom De Koning
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
13 - Blake Acres
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
14 - Orazio Fantasia
[ 2 ] (0.7%)
15 - Sam Docherty  ** ineligible, out for year**
[ 1 ] (0.4%)
16 - Jack Carroll
[ 2 ] (0.7%)
17 - Brodie Kemp
[ 12 ] (4.2%)
18 - Sam Walsh
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
19 - Corey Durdin
[ 0 ] (0%)
20 - Elijah Hollands
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
21 - Jack Martin
[ 3 ] (1.1%)
22 - Caleb Marchbank
[ 0 ] (0%)
23 - Jacob Weitering
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
24 - Nick Newman
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
25 - Jaxon Binns
[ 2 ] (0.7%)
27 - Marc Pittonet
[ 4 ] (1.4%)
28 - David Cuningham
[ 0 ] (0%)
29 - George Hewett
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
30 - Charlie Curnow
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
31 - Harry Lemmey
[ 0 ] (0%)
32 - Matt Carroll
[ 0 ] (0%)
33 - Lewis Young
[ 3 ] (1.1%)
34 - Rob Monahan
[ 0 ] (0%)
35 - Billy Wilson
[ 0 ] (0%)
37 - Jordan Boyd
[ 7 ] (2.5%)
38 - Sam Durdin
[ 0 ] (0%)
39 - Alex Cincotta
[ 13 ] (4.6%)
40 - Hudson O'Keeffe
[ 0 ] (0%)
41 - Dom Akuei
[ 0 ] (0%)
42 - Adam Saad
[ 12 ] (4.2%)
43 - Ashton Moir
[ 5 ] (1.8%)
44 - Matt Owies
[ 11 ] (3.9%)
45 - Alex Mirkov
[ 0 ] (0%)
46 - Matt Cottrell
[ 3 ] (1.1%)
*36 - Cooper Lord - MSD pickup
[ 2 ] (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Topic: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye (Read 8806 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #15 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Actually, De Koning has taken Fantasia’s spot and Williams has Fogarty’s place.

I opted for Williams over Fogarty because the former is more versatile, is a better mark, kicks goals and offers similar defensive pressure.

You apply pressure to the opposition by stretching their defence, running their first ruck into the ground and exploiting their second stringer.
You do you.

Just saying Fogarty gets named most on a HF flank and you have De Koning on a HF flank.
You can justify it however you want, but you don't need to.
It wasn't a shot at you or your team.
Just perfectly summarised hours of arguments into 1 post.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #16 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I don't want this discussion to continue in here, but i just wanted to point something out. Since it is so clearly demonstrated here.

I've been arguing all year about team balance, only needing 1 ruck and suggesting pressure is better value to the team.
People always argue that adding a ruck doesn't deminish the ability to provide pressure.

The above team shows exactly that. Playing Pittonet shows that De Koning is literally taking the spot Fogarty in this team.

As Lods said...
Couldn't have scripted that any better.

I only had De Koning in my final side...
Just to play Devil's advocate though.

If we play both rucks we lose Fogarty's pressure....but both Pittonet and DeKoning can apply pressure at the contest.
So pressure is not lost altogether.
It's lost in one area, but bolstered in another.

What one player brings as a strength has to be seen in terms of what you lose by playing them.
The cost of a decision isn't a case of losing everything in an area
You lose some, you gain some.

That's the key to team balance.
Working out the optimal combinations... and we all see that differently (as we've seen over the season), and the gap isn't a wide one...it's a marginal choice in many cases across the field.
And can change from game to game depending on current circumstances.

It would be interesting to see our pre-season teams up against our current sides.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I only had De Koning in my final side...
Just to play Devil's advocate though.

If we play both rucks we lose Fogarty's pressure....but both Pittonet and DeKoning can apply pressure at the contest.
So pressure is not lost altogether.
It's lost in one area, but bolstered in another.

What one player brings as a strength has to be seen in terms of what you lose by playing them.
The cost of a decision isn't a case of losing everything in an area
You lose some, you gain some.

That's the key to team balance.
Working out the optimal combinations... and we all see that differently (as we've seen over the season), and the gap isn't a wide one...it's a marginal choice in many cases across the field.
And can change from game to game depending on current circumstances.

It would be interesting to see our pre-season teams up against our current sides.

We don't need pressure at the contest though. We have that in spades by our bulls. We need pressure (and speed) around the ground.
Other teams run away from us, run by us, run around us. Look at what Hawks did. We were traffic cones. Yes, we were injured, but that leads to less pressure....and it was clear of the effect of that on a large scale.
Its harder to see on a smaller scale (when we are fit, but lack the right balance) but the result is still the same.

Defensive 50 pressure is huge.
We beat the eagles because of it. With so many smalls, they didn't get a chance to breathe down back.
When we have Charlie, Harry and someone else (Silvagni, TDK, Kennedy) who are slower and cannot provide the same kind of speed and pressure, it hurts us. It hurts us more than losing an extra 5% of ruck contests might hurt us.

As i said, i didn't want to have this debate here.
Just wanted to highlight that the 2nd ruck literally took 'Mr. Pressure' out of our side....which is what i've said all along.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #18 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
As i said, i didn't want to have this debate here.
Just wanted to highlight that the 2nd ruck literally took 'Mr. Pressure' out of our side....which is what i've said all along.

Yep
If we want to continue it we'll move it over to the ruck thread.
Just copy and paste to reply.
We have enough to discuss with the" who is in, who is out of the 22"

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #19 –
B: McGovern Weitering Cowan
HB: Saad Young Newman
C: Acres Cripps Binns
HF: E. Hollands McKay Cincotta
F: Owies Curnow Williams
R: de Koning Hewett Walsh
I: Boyd O. Hollands Kemp Kennedy
S: Cerra

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Sub-Zero – on
B: McGovern Weitering Cowan
HB: Saad Young Newman
C: Acres Cripps Binns
HF: E. Hollands McKay Cincotta
F: Owies Curnow Williams
R: de Koning Hewett Walsh
I: Docherty O. Hollands Kemp Kennedy
S: Cerra
You didn't follow the rules by including Docherty.

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #21 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
You didn't follow the rules by including Docherty.
But things have changed. The prognosis of Docherty being out for the year has changed. The news is, he will play on Saturday. Others have also voted Fogarty and Cottrell. They've also been ruled out for the rest of the year.
Boyd instead of Docherty, if that's the case.
 

Re: Pick your best 22 of 2024 - PART 6 - pre-finals bye

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Sub-Zero – on
But things have changed. The prognosis of Docherty being out for the year has changed. The news is, he will play on Saturday. Others have also voted Fogarty and Cottrell. They've also been ruled out for the rest of the year.
Boyd instead of Docherty, if that's the case.

Its not about picking the side thats playing this week.
Its about picking a side based on the players that are deemed eligible.
Its all in the first post.

Reason being, i want to get some consistency throughout the course of the year by choosing from the same set of players. If we only choose who is fit at the time, that doesn't tell us which players are best, but rather the best of whats available.
To keep things consistent, Docherty has been out all year, so will not be in any other teams. So for consistency, keep him out of this selection as well.