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Topic: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 16377 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #45 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Quote from: Lods – on


There was no-one apart from White and Boyd who deserved to be promoted from the VFL Round 1 match.
Boyd got his chance last week, White and Moir got their's this week.
The replacement cupboard is bare.


Had four months to drill a squad that has high end talent and failed.

Actually my bad - three years going to four

We have 'high end' talent....although a few of them have been gone missing in recent weeks.
It's our 'low end' talent that is not firing, and nothing in the wings.

Both forward and back we are missing key personnel....or players that normally carry a big load are well below their best
When those structures fall apart it puts an extra burden on the players that remain and they have to pick up the slack. There is a;so a reshuffle that takes place, and in some cases that means robbing one area to bolster another.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #46 –
Staggered why Boyd didn't get a game, ditto Carroll, Binns is a good runner too.   I don't ascribe to the cupboard being totally bare theory - but the players that are there need a rapid turn around in attitude and form, and I'm not confident going by what I've seen over the past month, and last ten games of 2024.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #47 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: pinot – on


Had four months to drill a squad that has high end talent and failed.

Actually my bad - three years going to four

We have 'high end' talent....although a few of them have been gone missing in recent weeks.
It's our 'low end' talent that is not firing, and nothing in the wings.

Both forward and back we are missing key personnel....or players that normally carry a big load are well below their best
When those structures fall apart it puts an extra burden on the players that remain and they have to pick up the slack. There is a;so a reshuffle that takes place, and in some cases that means robbing one area to bolster another.

Coaches job is to make the most of what they have. Saints beat Geelong with prime players missing because they are a drilled squad. We make excuses - there actually shouldn't be any.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #48 –
For those talking about drilling our high end talent, this is the second time a coach is trying to implement structures, and the last time we ended up with that 3 in 30 statistic because the game plan was too hard.

Maybe we just have dumb footballers who aren't skilled and can't follow a game plan, who just want to run around and do things.

We stuffed up then.  You implement a system, and then bring in blokes who can play in it.  Instead we appear to be focussing on losing the last few matches and kicking and screaming about it.

We wont get better until we work out what we do and how we do it.

Right now the pies are not the best afl team going around, but they repeat the same stuff every time, and find a way and whenever we play them it looks the same.  Fanatic gang tackling and pressure and a level of heat.  They kick to groups of players and position themselves better.  The ball comes out of a stoppage and they get a goal.  The detail in their method is there and has been there since malthouse was coach, and buckley and fly are just continuing with that detail. They have got a few stars but they don't have the raft of much vaunted talent because they plug players into a system.

We do the opposite.  We get a raft of talent and then fill in players on the periphery.  Our game is dictated by how well our top end goes.  Last night saw walsh start to hit his stride again but only for about a half.  Hewett and Tdk are the ones going full bore at the minute.   Weiters too.  Until Charlie, cripps and McKay (yes it know) come back into the team and start playing close to their best footy we are going to be down because our game plan is built around talent and players not system.  Which is why when people say why are we so bad?

We aren't this is us.  You get the spine back to close to its best and all of a sudden acres, cotters, hollands, fogarty, mcgovern, Haynes will play the way they are currently playing and it will be enough to best most teams because our good players are that good.

I've seen this before.  It's a team with champions rather than a champion team. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #49 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I was saying it last night  to my daughter, I told her the story of Hodge. When I was a kid, I played in the backline, if I was Weiters last night, I would have gone to the mids and said "Fellas, I dont want to see the ball back at my end after the centre bounce, is that clear?"
Our on field leadership is very poor when things aren't going great.
This may seem trivial but I noticed Hewett help Nick Daicos get up off the ground after contest. Not two minutes later, Hewett was not he ground with Daicos standing over him, do you reckon a helping hand was extended to Hewett. No Chance, watch the first bounce I think it was at the start of the 4th, Daicos lines up next to Walsh in the guts and he was into him bumping him straight away, here endeth the lesson, to win games of football you need to be a ruthless prick for 120mins for 25 odd weeks.

I have mixed feelings about those Daicos/Hewett type incidents. On the one hand I can appreciate that supporters and some in the media can take a dim view of those actions, I'm not certain they help or hinder us to be honest.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Staggered why Boyd didn't get a game, ditto Carroll, Binns is a good runner too.   I don't ascribe to the cupboard being totally bare theory - but the players that are there need a rapid turn around in attitude and form, and I'm not confident going by what I've seen over the past month, and last ten games of 2024.
I would have played Boyd vs the magpie smalls in the wet.
He would have been a good opponent for Schultz. Carroll and Binns are players I would integrate into the team but not too many newbies at once..
Our kids are small, lightweights rather than well built impact types who can hold their own straight away and we need to be careful not to over do it.
 

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #52 –
Attitude and effort. And the game plan/system....whatever the hell that is.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #53 –
earliest i have left a match in about 20years (v the dawks at marvel, at the start of the clarko years - left at quarter time when we were down 12 goals to zip).  last night i left about 5mins into the last q.    and i wasnt alone.   wellington pde looked like full time at a melb v suns game....

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #54 –
I was at that game.  Like last night, an air of hopelessness and inevitability.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #55 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
Who comes in is a separate list management discussion? No. Its 100% relative to this discussion. If you want to drop someone. You need to replace them with someone better.
There isn't.

From the in-game....





Feel free to go off on a complete tangent as usual !!

My comment was that Motlop has to be "traded or delisted" which just in case you may have overlooked, happens at the end of the season, not next week.

IMO, he is not up to the standard required and our List Management people need to find an replacement, again, this is to take place at the end of the season.

If Motlop plays the remainder of the season because there is no-one else available or better then so be it, doesn't mean he should continue at the club next year and beyond though.



100% he should be at the club next year and beyond.

As a trade target I will admit he holds little value.   A 4th round pick?   Maybe a 3rd but I doubt it.    He wouldn't be on big coin.   He is an easy hold.    Has talent and our small forward/high half forward stocks are light on.   Sorry why move him on?   It's crazy

Someone mentioned that Moir needs to play with flair, kick a couple of bananas from the pocket, jump on blokes shoulders and drop mark of the year and not worry about the team things.

Then consider...

Hawks:   Moore, Ginnivan, Hardwick and Watson
GWS:   Greene, Daniels, Thomas and D.Jones
Lions:  Cameron, Rayner, Lohmann and Ah Chee

Motlop would be 4th banana in those sides.   At Carlton he is carrying the load.   Get the kid some help.

These small forwards are 15 touch players that play the team game.   They work hard on offensive and work hard on defense.   They push up to the contest and provide an option to a midfield or a defense under pressure.   This is the part of the game Moir has to nail before he gets any sort of license.   He needs to learn how to work hard before the game slips past him.

We are a little stiff as Jagga and E Holland would be the two guys you would pencil in to be high half forwards who can push into the middle at the start of the season.   Fogarty has a crack but is really a midfielder playing as a medium forward.

The good sides are well drilled, and all play the team role.   Collingwood have a far better system than we do and arguably less talent.   

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #56 –
Motlop has a go and looks pretty industrious to me. Has played 44 games and is getting better IMO.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #57 –
Yep
I mentioned a few matches back that he's (Motlop) is an 'almost' player.
If he stops over-running the ball and gets it first touch he could be very damaging.
He still young at 21.
Let's see what he's doing at 23-24.

I suspect there may be an bit of a division with in the playing group over flair v discipline.
We see players flashing in and out of the game and others who just grind away and keep on message.
Jack got a bit frustrated with a team-mate (think it was Williams) at one stage last night.
He's out there busting a gut and his expectations would be that others follow suit. He'd probably wear a mistake, but not a 'lazy' one.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #58 –
Aaaah Williams ...
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
As a trade target I will admit he holds little value.   A 4th round pick?   Maybe a 3rd but I doubt it.    He wouldn't be on big coin.   He is an easy hold.   

Once again, our fans want to fall for the old trap of "just hang on to them" even though the player in question is not up to it.

We have done that for years & years and where has it got us, yep, a list full of half-baked list-cloggers.

If the guy is a poor performer in his own right and is only worth a 3rd or 4th rounder, then why the hell should we persist with him when other clubs wouldn't ??

This sort of logic does my head in.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"