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Topic: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 16371 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #60 –
Can we delist 25 this year though… ?🤔
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #61 –
I would suggest that our issues are meta and go well beyond personnel. We have turned over more than any other club in the last 20 odd years, and no group of individuals has made much of a dent, although some have been more successful than others. The club as an abstract entity seems to be in a kind of paralysis or fug, and IMO no amount of personnel change will help. The land is barren, and no amount of hole digging, changing the shape of the hole, using different implements to dig etc., will change that. There's something fundamental about "being Carlton" that needs to change.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #62 –
It's a really simple question.

Would you stick with Motlop or take pick 96?

You chances of pick 96 becoming a player is what?   3-5% chance?   And yes Motlop might be a bust but he is a better prospect than a pick 96.

And we shouldn't be short of players to delist.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #63 –
If it was up to this little black duck, I'd be getting the entire football department/coaches together, and make them spend two or three days together focussed on mental toughness, accountability and leadership. And deal with the obvious fcking issues they clearly have as a collective. I reckon the problem is... we've got some non-hackers in there getting a free lunch.

This is the group educating, motivating and managing our playing group and I reckon our lack of mental toughness is coming from them. The toughness is clearly there in our group, they just don't know how to implement it, consistently and persistently; they clearly don't know how to deal with the opposition heat coming - that's on the footy department and coaches. Our on-field efforts are a reflection of the skills and leadership of the coaches and footy department. What they demand, or fail to demand, filters through to the playing group. Something's crook in Tootgarook with this clearly confused lot.

I'd definitely be putting the footy department/coaching group under severe scrutiny before the playing group. The players are giving their all and I believe they're being let down by a failure of leadership and clarity of message from the footy department.

I am 100% behind Vossy. Going on a scapegoat hunt is just plain dumb. Put the lens on the footy department.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I saw plenty of effort.

When you can't get your hands on the ball, and the opposition is able to run over you in waves because they're fitter and faster, then when you do get it, you make mistakes, this is what happens.

Cripps is a shadow of himself.   The players currently don't want the ball.  When they get it, they've got no where to go with it, because there's no easy ball, there's no release option.  There's minimal movement, because we lack run.  Its all a feedback loop.  You can't do one, which means you can't do another thing, and you can't do the next thing, so you have to resort to long kicks to contests.  Cripps goal last night, he had a teamate clear closer to goal.  Ignored the option. Kicked it himself.   We've got blokes playing selfish football everywhere and guys that don't want contact.
What is effort I wonder? Voss was clear in press conference, the standard was to up to scratch and he was referring to contest. Weiters eluded to a lack of commitment, we saw Doc not create a marking contest which resulted in a simple mark and goal to Coll.
So to me, there was no effort in the 3rd qtr to win the contest, create a contest, etc.
I heard Simpson say this on the radio yesterday and ANY coach will say the same, you can have water style you want, but it all starts with winning the contest (ie win the footy). We got smashed in that 10-15 mins of the 3rd qtr and as I said earlier, I look straight at the leaders and more experienced players who didn't stand up when we needed them.
I was thinking this morning whilst paying pavers about the saying you reap what you sew. For ever an a day, I hear people saying "we cant rely on Cripps all the time". No we cant but by christ did we need him to stand up and lead the club in the 10 min onslaught. Mr $1.7M Man, No 1 Draft Pick and a few others will also find the replay hard viewing.

On the other side, who stood up for them in the 3rd and ramped up the pressure? Sidebottom, D Goey, Pendlebury, Mihocek, Cameron, all the seasoned campaigners.

I heard an interesting stat on the radio yesterday arvo, Coll last night fielded the oldest side in the history of football.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #65 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Motlop has a go and looks pretty industrious to me. Has played 44 games and is getting better IMO.
Yes has gotten better and got involved as the season has progressed (albeit only 4 games long).
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
 

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #66 –
To me Jesse doesn’t work hard enough for long enough. He’s got friends in that category no doubt.

JSOS and Weiters seem the most rallying/vocal, maybe Saad. Then there’s crickets imo. George and Cripps lead by example but don’t seem to rally the troops - Walsh doesn’t seem to have it, Doch very sadly is a shadow of the former player he was.  Charlie doesn’t have it. Yes we’re obviously now desperately missing Newman.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #67 –
Bobby Hill and Elliot were worse last night.
We are expecting too much of Jesse and he is not the issue.

The core group has had three pre seasons under Voss and they are not drilled.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #68 –
Looks to me that they players are saying look we can play (1st half) then not interested (2nd Half).
Something is very wrong here.
I like Voss, but it's usually the coach that pays the price in these situations.
Either the players don't want to play for him, or our game plan doesn't suit.
Something has to happen soon!!!

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #69 –
I think there's a fair bit going on at the club that we can only guess at.

I read somewhere last week that Graeme Wright (Cook's successor) has been spending a bit of time in the coach's box on game day.
We usually see Voss on the sidelines, but I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong) that he has been spending more time upstairs.
It was interesting to see Voss sitting alone on the bench at the start of the match last night.
Was he distancing himself from the scrutiny.
Last thing we need is a CEO/Coach rift so hopefully that relationship is developing OK

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #70 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I would suggest that our issues are meta and go well beyond personnel. We have turned over more than any other club in the last 20 odd years, and no group of individuals has made much of a dent, although some have been more successful than others. The club as an abstract entity seems to be in a kind of paralysis or fug, and IMO no amount of personnel change will help. The land is barren, and no amount of hole digging, changing the shape of the hole, using different implements to dig etc., will change that. There's something fundamental about "being Carlton" that needs to change.

I think this is a great post and sadly very close to the mark Paul

Over the years the "we are Carlton and f$&# the rest" hasn't really worked and at times I think many still see Carlton as the 80's and 90's powerhouse.   

The reality is that in the current day we aren't elite at anything on or off the field.   The days of the top end of Collins Street throwing cash at the best players in Kernahan, Bradley and Naley are gone.

We still wait for our white knight to come in a fix everything.

- Pratt's Millions
- Denis Pagan
- Mick Malthouse
- Greg Swann
- Chris Judd
- Mathieson and Pokies Money
- Number 1 draft pick in Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer.
- Brian Cook
- Andrew Russell
- Patrick Cripps
- Next in line Graham Wright

These guys are successful before they came to Carlton and in cases like Swann are successful after they leave but often, they get frog marched out of Carlton as being the cause for our lack of on field success.  

We stand back and wait for these guys to save us.

So what is wrong at Carlton?    I still remember getting Luke Williams across from Geelong as a key recruiter only for him to resign not much later staggered at our recruitment set up and systems.   Lasted from May to November.

"Williams was lured to Carlton from Geelong in what was lauded as a major coup in May given he'd been the right-hand man to guru recruiter Stephen Wells."

Do former Carlton powerbrokers and past players have too much influence at the club?   Are guys like Cook and even Voss given the power to make changes?

Why do guys like Clarkson and Ross Lyon turn their nose at us?

How many days are we away from a Bruce Mathieson savaging via the Herald Sun?

I agree Paul.   Something is rotten in the state of Denmark





Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #71 –
Vossy seems to me to be a very loyal person, but I would ask if his loyalty is being let down by some in his footy department, maybe some other coaches and even some players. He also strikes me as someone who, perhaps I hope, will get to a stage where he'll get angry and fed up and hopefully at the right people. Might be time for Vossy to be a pr1ck with those who deserve it and time to let go of loyalties to those who can't deliver.

Watching the game, and in particular after 1/4 time, it was pretty clear where our issues were - apart from mental toughness and a game plan needing tweaks. These blokes, for whatever reason, just aren't having the impact they're supposedly capable of.

I just don't see what Haynes brings.
Are we expecting too much from Motlop?
Young, with ball in hand just seems confused. Zero footy IQ.
What the hell has happened to Gov... just can't be trusted.
Williams comes and goes in games. Why?
Was Crippa carrying an injury? Does he take on too much responsibility? Are there some around him on the ball who fail to rise up when he can't or isn't dominating?
Is Cerra the most vanilla mid in the game? He does alright, he's a good (not very good or excellent) player but can he do more, because he has to.
What the hell is going on with Acres?
I'll be blunt, a shooting bambi moment, but Doc is a liability. He actually seems worried and hesitant. Game has passed him by?

I understand that not everybody can be mentally tough and/or someone you'd want in the trenches with you, but the blokes who seem to me to bring those qualities are at present: JSOS, Ollie, Crippa, TDK, Walshy, Hewett, Lord and Boyd. Although each may have some issues, you know they're focussed and will bring their best to each contest and the entire game. Unavailable blokes who bring these qualities and are missed would be: Cottrell, Cincotta, Pitto, Newman and Cowan (though still raw and needing work).

Looking forward to the Magoos game on Saturday. I'd love for the MC to make a statement. If some in the Magoos put their hands up, I'd like to see these blokes given a rest: McGovern, Doc, Acres, Haynes and Young. It's over the hungry ones in the Magoos to demand selection... and the MC to have the cods to do what is necessary.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #72 –
Thanks Shakin'. Yes,  I wish I knew the answer. You've named most of them, but we've had plenty of high caliber, eminently qualified folks through the door, across all aspects of the club : Board, CEO, coach, high performance, high draft picks, gun trades etc. And with very few exceptions, none have either lived up to the hype / expectation, or been able to duplicate the success they experienced at previous clubs. On an individual level, I'd say Judd, Cripps, Weitering, Charlie Curnow and maybe McKay have excelled, but as a collective, as a club, nothing seems to work. You can call it bad culture, a culture of losing etc, but it seems to be in the air, in the walls, and incredibly hard to shift. I really can't see how a new coach, new this, new that, arguing about guys like Motlop etc is going to make a difference.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #73 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Vossy seems to me to be a very loyal person, but I would ask if his loyalty is being let down by some in his footy department, maybe some other coaches and even some players. He also strikes me as someone who, perhaps I hope, will get to a stage where he'll get angry and fed up and hopefully at the right people. Might be time for Vossy to be a pr1ck with those who deserve it and time to let go of loyalties to those who can't deliver.

Watching the game, and in particular after 1/4 time, it was pretty clear where our issues were - apart from mental toughness and a game plan needing tweaks. These blokes, for whatever reason, just aren't having the impact they're supposedly capable of.

I just don't see what Haynes brings.
Are we expecting too much from Motlop?
Young, with ball in hand just seems confused. Zero footy IQ.
What the hell has happened to Gov... just can't be trusted.
Williams comes and goes in games. Why?
Was Crippa carrying an injury? Does he take on too much responsibility? Are there some around him on the ball who fail to rise up when he can't or isn't dominating?
Is Cerra the most vanilla mid in the game? He does alright, he's a good (not very good or excellent) player but can he do more, because he has to.
What the hell is going on with Acres?
I'll be blunt, a shooting bambi moment, but Doc is a liability. He actually seems worried and hesitant. Game has passed him by?

I understand that not everybody can be mentally tough and/or someone you'd want in the trenches with you, but the blokes who seem to me to bring those qualities are at present: JSOS, Ollie, Crippa, TDK, Walshy, Hewett, Lord and Boyd. Although each may have some issues, you know they're focussed and will bring their best to each contest and the entire game. Unavailable blokes who bring these qualities and are missed would be: Cottrell, Cincotta, Pitto, Newman and Cowan (though still raw and needing work).

Looking forward to the Magoos game on Saturday. I'd love for the MC to make a statement. If some in the Magoos put their hands up, I'd like to see these blokes given a rest: McGovern, Doc, Acres, Haynes and Young. It's over the hungry ones in the Magoos to demand selection... and the MC to have the cods to do what is necessary.


Yep
We need pressure for changes and I hope we get plenty of it from the VFL lads.

The comment about Young being confused with ball in hand is a good one.
It was frustrating last night when we were moving the ball quickly and he stopped and looke around rather than keeping it going. He does it a lot. I'd rather he stuff it up rather than kill the momentum

Our sacked coaches have a history of keeping quiet during their tenure and then letting loose about the shambles they encountered while at the club.
It might be time for a coach to let loose while he's still deeply involved.
It will be easier to see then whether he's part of the problem or fighting with one hand behind his back.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #74 –
Where is Cincotta?