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Poll

If an election were to be held on the 3rd May (likely) which party would recieve your vote.

Labor
[ 12 ] (46.2%)
LNP
[ 8 ] (30.8%)
Greens
[ 0 ] (0%)
Teal Independent
[ 1 ] (3.8%)
One Nation
[ 0 ] (0%)
Trumpet of Patriots
[ 1 ] (3.8%)
Local Independent
[ 4 ] (15.4%)
None of the Above
[ 0 ] (0%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Topic: Election 2025 (Poll added) (Read 48991 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #150 –
I don't see how The Voice would create division. One of Price's claims against The Voice is that Indigenous people are not suffering any negative impacts from Colonisation. Extraordinary.

Lidia Thorpe at times undoubtedly acts like an uncouth yobbo, but I prefer her any day over Price. The latter represents a minority position in Indigenous affairs.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #151 –
I literally just explained it.  Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.

Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment.  Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us.  Its just with a different motivation. 

It's just not FAIR.  you don't cure injustice with more injustice.  You just breed resentment.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #152 –
The last few posts are actually a good indicator of how we look at things differently depending on our own political, social views and life experiences.
That's not to be critical of anyone. Our make-up  is a very complex and personal thing. We may have our own idea of how society should work.
And that can be very different because of our own situation
For every advance we advocate there is sometimes a cost or counter argument that we don't consider.
If everyone agreed there would be no reason for elections.
At the heart of everything is a difference in circumstances.
Society will only advance if the differences in circumstances  are reduced.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #153 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I literally just explained it.  Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.

Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment.  Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us.  Its just with a different motivation. 

It's just not FAIR.  you don't cure injustice with more injustice.  You just breed resentment.

I would not be resentful if The Voice went through, I would not be resentful if we ever get a treaty, and I would not be resentful if reparations were paid out, which IMO are thoroughly warranted. I can very easily see how First Nations people are unique in our history.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #154 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I literally just explained it.  Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.

Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment.  Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us.  Its just with a different motivation. 

It's just not FAIR.  you don't cure injustice with more injustice.  You just breed resentment.

I would not be resentful if The Voice went through, I would not be resentful if we ever get a treaty, and I would not be resentful if reparations were paid out, which IMO are thoroughly warranted. I can very easily see how First Nations people are unique in our history.

You wouldn't Paul. That's your view. But a lot of people would argue that the money involved in all those things would be better spent in direct health and welfare services. It's not a better option...just a different one.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #155 –
Quote from: Lods – on
You wouldn't Paul. That's your view. But a lot of people would argue that the money involved in all those things would be better spent in direct health and welfare services. It's not a better option...just a different one.

I get that. I dare say spending money on the things above would not preclude spending on health and welfare.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #156 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: Baggers – on

I've watched a few interviews with Jacinta and what has consistently come to mind is... angry. Like an articulate Pauline Hanson.

To Jacinta the only reason the LNP lost the election was because of all the lies the other side came out with. And that's the problem with such a high degree of chronic anger, self-reflection and objectivity become impossible: not qualities you want in a leader.
See I dont see the angry bit, Thorpe is the very definition of angry.

Thorpe's anger is right there on the surface for all to see - not talking about right/wrong or whether her anger (rage) is justified or not. Whereas Jacinta's anger seems way more gritted between the teeth; passive/aggressive type. She's too smart and savvy to 'lose it' publicly. When, from what I have observed, Jacinta is confronted with reasonable questioning she descends into sweeping generalizations and ignoring/stonewalling the question.

I simply see red flags when any leader angrily (either overtly or covertly) denies and redirects. Trump is a master at this tactic.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #157 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: DJC – on
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest.  Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.

The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.

Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump  in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #158 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.

Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump  in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.

Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #159 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: laj – on


Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump  in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.

Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.

They're in a mess.
John Howard's 'broad church' looks more like the local chapter of the Southern Baptists.
Deciding what their values are has an easy direction...and it's not to the right.
Policies need to be developed that appeal and provide general benefits to central and middle Australia, because rightly or wrongly, that's where the elections are won or lost.

But unless things go dramatically wrong for Labor, this won't be a short term process for the Libs.
It will take years of discussion, argument and possibly infighting.
It's doubtful the person elected leader tomorrow will be the next Liberal Prime Minister.
Have a shilling on Labor for the next election now... while the odds are pretty good.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #160 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.

They're in a mess.
John Howard's 'broad church' looks more like the local chapter of the Southern Baptists.
Deciding what their values are has an easy direction...and it's not to the right.
Policies need to be developed that appeal and provide general benefits to central and middle Australia, because rightly or wrongly, that's where the elections are won or lost.

But unless things go dramatically wrong for Labor, this won't be a short term process for the Libs.
It will take years of discussion, argument and possibly infighting.
It's doubtful the person elected leader tomorrow will be the next Liberal Prime Minister.
Have a shilling on Labor for the next election now... while the odds are pretty good.

Absolutely. Seems the LNP decided to go hard Right and abandon moderate conservatives, which the Teals and Labor duly grabbed. Their present incarnation is about as far as you can get from what Menzies envisioned. Should be a fascinating battle between the two distinct LNP factions: hard Right head kickers and moderate conservatives.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #161 –
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent  to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics  but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.
 

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #162 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent  to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics  but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.

Totally agree, EB1. Ley would be the ideal transition leader; transitioning to a more moderate position and at least winning back the Teal voters and creating a party more attractive to small L conservatives and any subsequent talent.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #163 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent  to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics  but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.

Why do you say that EB?

Among Chalmers' qualifications is a commerce degree and he has published on economics.  The Fin Review got ten economists to rate his performance out of ten in January last year and he got 5.5, 6, 2X6.5, 3X7, 7.5, 8 and 8-9.  While that's not a random or representative sample, an average rating of 7.95 isn't too shabby.  Chalmers is quite a polished public speaker and that can be useful in obscuring any gaps in knowledge.

Labor's Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, has a PhD in economics from Yale.  Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities & Treasury, Andrew Leigh, has a PhD in economics, as does Andrew Charlton, Cabinet Secretary and the Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy.  Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, doesn't have any formal qualifications in economics or related fields and qualified as a social worker.

Angus Taylor has a Bachelor of Economics and a Master of Philosophy in Economics from Oxford.

Anyway, Sussan Ley narrowly won the Liberal leadership vote and has Ted O’Brien as her deputy.  Jacinta Nampijinpa Price withdrew from the deputy leadership ballot after Taylor lost.

Ley will be like the girl with the wheelbarrow, she has the job in front of her, but it is quite a remarkable achievement for her to become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #164 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent  to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics  but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.

Why do you say that EB?

Among Chalmers' qualifications is a commerce degree and he has published on economics.  The Fin Review got ten economists to rate his performance out of ten in January last year and he got 5.5, 6, 2X6.5, 3X7, 7.5, 8 and 8-9.  While that's not a random or representative sample, an average rating of 7.95 isn't too shabby.  Chalmers is quite a polished public speaker and that can be useful in obscuring any gaps in knowledge.

Labor's Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, has a PhD in economics from Yale.  Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities & Treasury, Andrew Leigh, has a PhD in economics, as does Andrew Charlton, Cabinet Secretary and the Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy.  Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, doesn't have any formal qualifications in economics or related fields and qualified as a social worker.

Angus Taylor has a Bachelor of Economics and a Master of Philosophy in Economics from Oxford.

Anyway, Sussan Ley narrowly won the Liberal leadership vote and has Ted O’Brien as her deputy.  Jacinta Nampijinpa Price withdrew from the deputy leadership ballot after Taylor lost.

Ley will be like the girl with the wheelbarrow, she has the job in front of her, but it is quite a remarkable achievement for her to become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.
Chalmers is a good Politician, presents well, speaks well until asked a technical question about economics where he does a good obscuring his gaps in knowledge as you suggested  by waffling about Labour Policy and Liberal failings. I listen to a podcast called the money cafe and he came across clueless on a range of issues, I can understand why Albanese has promoted Mulino as assistant Treasurer because he does know what he is talking about and id expect to see more of him doing interviews and handling people such as Sarah Ferguson on the ABC who seems to enjoy taking down JC.
Snake" Chalmers" has come out today and said he needs two more terms to fix the economy???....6-9 years.....your kidding Jim, right?
As I said before I think Susan Ley was the right choice to lead during a rebuild as a more moderate but I cant see her making much impression on the Aus public or providing Albo with any serious opposition and I think she is only warming the chair for others like Tehan and Wilson to throw their hat in the ring.
I think Taylor paid for his insipid performance as opposition Treasurer and avoiding him as leader was one of the few things the LP have got right in the last month...