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Topic: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG (Read 12297 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #30 –
cats without a couple of players been there many times and we still get beaten unfortunately

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #31 –
I just had a look at the Geelong website and their injury list makes ours look like it's providing a wealth of information in comparison.  They have seven players with TBC timelines and two others with indefinite timelines.  ::)

Interestingly, former Blue liniment lizard, Jack Martin, is suffering from "Management" and his timeline is TBC ...
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #32 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I just had a look at the Geelong website and their injury list makes ours look like it's providing a wealth of information in comparison.  They have seven players with TBC timelines and two others with indefinite timelines.  ::)

Interestingly, former Blue liniment lizard, Jack Martin, is suffering from "Management" and his timeline is TBC ...

Yeah he is a gamble player.  Cats dont need him to fire given what Danger is doing forward, but its a hell of a luxury to have a classy player like Martin come in and allow them to move him around the ground. 

Great depth cover, and what I was hoping Haynes would be for us.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #33 –
He's doing exactly what most reckoned he'd do to the cats...Clog the list, chew up the salary cap and use up medical resources
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: DJC – on
I just had a look at the Geelong website and their injury list makes ours look like it's providing a wealth of information in comparison.  They have seven players with TBC timelines and two others with indefinite timelines.  ::)

Interestingly, former Blue liniment lizard, Jack Martin, is suffering from "Management" and his timeline is TBC ...

Yeah he is a gamble player.  Cats dont need him to fire given what Danger is doing forward, but its a hell of a luxury to have a classy player like Martin come in and allow them to move him around the ground. 

Great depth cover, and what I was hoping Haynes would be for us.

Yes, Jack could be a VIP for Geelong at the pointy end of the season but only if he can get on the park. 

I’m not sure who came up with the following but I think that it may have been Lord Lucifer - and I’m paraphrasing:

You don’t bring in depth players.  You bring in players who force established players to become depth players.

Who knows what Mackie and Wells were thinking when they threw Martin a lifeline but I suspect they won’t be too happy with whoever signed off on his medical.

Anyway, Jack won’t be playing against us on Sunday.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #35 –
I think Lucifer has that wrong.  Sometimes you find a depth option and bring them in at a discount. Mitch Morton for the Swans rings a bell.  He played 12 games for the Swans in two years including 3 finals, one a winning grand final.

 I think having hard and fast rules around list management is a way to result in poor list management. 

Particularly once the compromised drafts begin.  If you can bring in an older player or a broken player and they fire up for you at the right time, then provided you aren't relying on it its fine.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #36 –
The other point of view is relying on discounted, broken players, and you end up with a substantial portion of the list existing in the twilight zone of "he's a matchwinner....but he's never available when you need him".  Like us in the second half of 2023 being a prime example.  You don't win flags on hope.

The flipside is resurrecting a broken player, who you got at a discount.  Matt Carroll looks like one examole, but what's our strike rate in this realm, five percent?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I think Lucifer has that wrong.  Sometimes you find a depth option and bring them in at a discount. Mitch Morton for the Swans rings a bell.  He played 12 games for the Swans in two years including 3 finals, one a winning grand final.

 I think having hard and fast rules around list management is a way to result in poor list management. 

Particularly once the compromised drafts begin.  If you can bring in an older player or a broken player and they fire up for you at the right time, then provided you aren't relying on it its fine.

Correct.

If you bring in players who will be best 22, you pay them best 22 prices.
If someone gets pushed out of your best 22, they were already on best 22 prices.
Thats a quick and easy way to screw over your salary cap.

It doesn't matter what you play for any particular player, just that you get good value for them.

A rookie is the cheapest of the lot, but if he is never going to play a game then he becomes a list clogger and not good value.
A brownlow medalist who costs you 2mil dollars is not good value because he takes too much away from the cap and away from other players, forcing them to leave.
A top up player can be good value at the right price and right availability. Doesn't have to be best 22.
Look at Fogarty or Boyd....both cost us next to nothing, both can do a job at AFL level. Both are borderline best 22-best 28. Both good value.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #38 –
I don't know why this pre-match thread has been turned into a List Management but anyways ............

For the record, I have never read so many offbeat theories in my life.

On top of that, we are not in the "depth" business !!

If you want depth, then you create it by bringing in better credentialled players into the top half/third of the list thereby forcing players on the fringe (who may be getting a game) further down the pecking order.

And lastly .......... "best 22" means absolute jacksh1t, look at Norths best 22, they can't even blow out a candle.

If you want to be a genine contender, then you need to create a "competitive 22" that is the equivalent of (or better than) the top 6-8 clubs.

Being in the best 22 players on a craphole list means nothing and never will, it's a bottom of the barrel mentality.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #39 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
I don't know why this pre-match thread has been turned into a List Management but anyways ............

For the record, I have never read so many offbeat theories in my life.

On top of that, we are not in the "depth" business !!

If you want depth, then you create it by bringing in better credentialled players into the top half/third of the list thereby forcing players on the fringe (who may be getting a game) further down the pecking order.

And lastly .......... "best 22" means absolute jacksh1t, look at Norths best 22, they can't even blow out a candle.

If you want to be a genine contender, then you need to create a "competitive 22" that is the equivalent of (or better than) the top 6-8 clubs.

Being in the best 22 players on a craphole list means nothing and never will, it's a bottom of the barrel mentality.

We have a competitive 22.
We don't have a competitive 32.
We need to add depth.
You can do that by bringing in a 22 player and pushing one out or you can do that by bringing in a player that can do a role when required.
O.Holland/Boyd/Cincotta/Fogarty are examples of that....they won't be in everyones best 22, but when they are called upon to perform at AFL level, they don't look out of place and we don't suffer.

Kids come through and push best 22 players out when they are ready - Look at Docherty.

Not every trade needs to improve your best 22, it just needs to improve your list, because having a completly fit best 22 is a fantasy that is unacheivable.

Nobody is saying dont try and get the most talented players you can, but you don't simply do it at the detriment of your long term stability requiring you to have a fire sale to fit everyone else under the cap.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #40 –
Cats are an example of this.

Jack Martin isn't best 22 for them, but he is a good depth player to have when required.

I'm more than happy that he cannot be picked this week. When fit, he worries any opponent. Thankfully, he is not often fit, including this week.

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #41 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
A top up player can be good value at the right price and right availability. Doesn't have to be best 22.

How many more top up players do you want ??

Fantasia
Haynes
Lord
Boyd
White
Cincotta
Evans
Cottrell
O'Keeffe
Duffy
Monahan

11 players out of 45, that's 25% of our playing list that are top up options (i.e. undrafted & untraded for).

"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #42 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Cats are an example of this.

Jack Martin isn't best 22 for them, but he is a good depth player to have when required.

I'm more than happy that he cannot be picked this week. When fit, he worries any opponent. Thankfully, he is not often fit, including this week.

He hasn't played a game for them yet so how can you say he is a good pick-up for them ??

Always injured !!

The best thing Jack Martin ever did was walk out the front door and said goodbye ............ bone-fide dud.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #43 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
A top up player can be good value at the right price and right availability. Doesn't have to be best 22.

How many more top up players do you want ??

Fantasia
Haynes
Lord
Boyd
White
Cincotta
Evans
Cottrell
O'Keeffe
Duffy
Monahan

11 players out of 45, that's 25% of our playing list that are top up options (i.e. undrafted & untraded for).



Interesting week to play the Cats

Undrafted & untraded:
Stengle
T Atkins
Dempsey
Close
J Henry
Z Guthrie
Blicavs
Mullin
O'Connor
Martin

Pike, Retschko, Ivisic, Burke

Re: AFL Rd 7 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong at the MCG

Reply #44 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Cats are an example of this.

Jack Martin isn't best 22 for them, but he is a good depth player to have when required if he is ever fit enough to play.

I'm more than happy that he cannot be picked this week. When fit, he worries any opponent. Thankfully, he is not often fit, including this week.

Edited for accuracy  :)

Yes, I'm pleased that Jack isn't available for selection this week, but the chances of him (a) being fit enough to play and (b) managing to string games together are pretty slim.  Perhaps Jack should channel Max Rooke and get onto calves blood extract. 

If Jack was fit, who would he replace?  I don't think he could he could perform Miers' role but Ollie Henry, Clohesy and Close haven't exactly been setting the world on fire with their scintillating forward craft.  Either way, it's not a problem Geelong's MC will have to deal with.

Who gets the matchup with Dangerfield when he goes forward?  I think I'd go with Haynes but with Silvagni, McGovern and Saad picking him up from time to time and running him around.

I'd play Lord on Smith and give him a licence to be unsociable  :)
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!