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Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Now this is something that ive often had issues with. Generally speaking, here is a graph.

https://www.statista.com/chart/8301/the-countries-holding-the-worlds-nuclear-arsenal/

Iran do not feature on the list of nations possessing nuclear weapons.

Israel on the other hand, do.

Its fundamentally hypocritical to stop another nation from obtaining them if you have some.

Or does it matter which side is the goodies, and which are the baddies?

The fewer countries that have the bloody things the better.

If a countries leaders constantly sprout the elimination of your country and embark on a program that could result in them obtaining nuclear weapons, then the rules of 'fairness' and hypocrisy go out the window.
You don't play fair.
You use the advantage while you still possess it.
You're going to do everything in your power and capability to make sure such a program doesn't progress.

Even if the supposed best intelligence network says that the program doesn't exist?

I bet Ukraine is spitting chips that it gave up what was the world's third largest nuclear arsenal.

You're right though, no-one should have nuclear weapons, but I can't see that happening unless we produce a brand new crop of genuine leaders not wedded to 20th century ideologies and nationalism. 
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #16 –
Putin has offered himself to be peacemaker.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #17 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Putin has offered himself to be peacemaker.
lol
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
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2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
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2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #18 –
Iran is Russia’s source of drones for its war on Ukraine.  It’s in Putin’s interests if Iran’s weapons manufacturing capacity isn’t diminished by the Israeli bombardment.

Until the recent transfer of US-supplied Patriot missile systems to Ukraine, Israel has refused to provide military aid to Ukraine or to impose sanctions on Russia.

Two of Tsar Vlad’s very few supporting nations are bombing the crap out of each other and it’s in his in interests to hose things down.

"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #19 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Iran is Russia’s source of drones for its war on Ukraine.  It’s in Putin’s interests if Iran’s weapons manufacturing capacity isn’t diminished by the Israeli bombardment.

Until the recent transfer of US-supplied Patriot missile systems to Ukraine, Israel has refused to provide military aid to Ukraine or to impose sanctions on Russia.

Two of Tsar Vlad’s very few supporting nations are bombing the crap out of each other and it’s in his in interests to hose things down.


Gets his ballistic missiles from Iran too, Putins recent Middle East forays havent been great having been booted out of Syria along with his puppet Assad with rebels now in charge who are backed by Turkey and the USA.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #20 –
Maybe I'm paranoid, but it looks fairly obvious to me that Russia, China and Nth Korea are barracking for RedTrump to involve the USA, and they are doing so by prodding the MAGA faithful to force RedTrump's into action!

But keep in mind, in terms of politics and funding, the bigger donor to the GOP or Democrats is AIPAC. AIPAC is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and they donate roughly  5x or10x more than other individuals or company! I think last election in total AIPAC donated US$350M, the next best was one of the big weapons companies that made about US$84M in donations, and there is a whole host of weapons companies in the top ten.

Interestingly, Musk does not appear on many lists, are his claims of huge donations bogus or are they so otherwise indirect they can't be measured? Would it be odd if a RedTrump ally issued bogus claims?

Of course that is now eclipsed by a US$600M aircraft! ;)

While all that is happening, RedTrump's focus on Iran is a convenient distraction to what is going on in the Indo-Pacific, just what China and Nth Korea would like!

btw., When you read all these numbers, $10M, $50M, $600M, it's really all chicken feed to wealthy nation states and huge multinationals. For example, Apple's 2024 advertising budget was US$7.2B
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #21 –
Quote from: LP – on
Maybe I'm paranoid, but it looks fairly obvious to me that Russia, China and Nth Korea are barracking for RedTrump to involve the USA, and they are doing so by prodding the MAGA faithful to force RedTrump's into action!

But keep in mind, in terms of politics and funding, the bigger donor to the GOP or Democrats is AIPAC. AIPAC is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and they donate roughly  5x or10x more than other individuals or company! I think last election in total AIPAC donated US$350M, the next best was one of the big weapons companies that made about US$84M in donations, and there is a whole host of weapons companies in the top ten.

Interestingly, Musk does not appear on many lists, are his claims of huge donations bogus or are they so otherwise indirect they can't be measured? Would it be odd if a RedTrump ally issued bogus claims?

Of course that is now eclipsed by a US$600M aircraft! ;)

While all that is happening, RedTrump's focus on Iran is a convenient distraction to what is going on in the Indo-Pacific, just what China and Nth Korea would like!

btw., When you read all these numbers, $10M, $50M, $600M, it's really all chicken feed to wealthy nation states and huge multinationals. For example, Apple's 2024 advertising budget was US$7.2B
The USA are involved officially or unofficially like always....they start, escalate conflicts and then leave when the damage is done , the repair bill then arrives and the refugees need a new home which is where the rest of the world have to come in and pick up the tab.Protect the oil fields at all costs and dont spill a drop is the USA battle cry, meanwhile we are paying double for our petrol, have doubled our detention centres, and the USA are claiming to have saved the day again.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #22 –
I prefer to look at this as the ongoing stoush from history.  Instead of a side winning and losing you have an arm wrestle that never ends.

Even when one side is down, and the other well and truly dominant the stoush will eventually blow up again, and all that changes is which people suffer along the way.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #23 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: LP – on
Maybe I'm paranoid, but it looks fairly obvious to me that Russia, China and Nth Korea are barracking for RedTrump to involve the USA, and they are doing so by prodding the MAGA faithful to force RedTrump's into action!

But keep in mind, in terms of politics and funding, the bigger donor to the GOP or Democrats is AIPAC. AIPAC is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and they donate roughly  5x or10x more than other individuals or company! I think last election in total AIPAC donated US$350M, the next best was one of the big weapons companies that made about US$84M in donations, and there is a whole host of weapons companies in the top ten.

Interestingly, Musk does not appear on many lists, are his claims of huge donations bogus or are they so otherwise indirect they can't be measured? Would it be odd if a RedTrump ally issued bogus claims?

Of course that is now eclipsed by a US$600M aircraft! ;)

While all that is happening, RedTrump's focus on Iran is a convenient distraction to what is going on in the Indo-Pacific, just what China and Nth Korea would like!

btw., When you read all these numbers, $10M, $50M, $600M, it's really all chicken feed to wealthy nation states and huge multinationals. For example, Apple's 2024 advertising budget was US$7.2B
The USA are involved officially or unofficially like always....they start, escalate conflicts and then leave when the damage is done , the repair bill then arrives and the refugees need a new home which is where the rest of the world have to come in and pick up the tab.Protect the oil fields at all costs and dont spill a drop is the USA battle cry, meanwhile we are paying double for our petrol, have doubled our detention centres, and the USA are claiming to have saved the day again.

They are an necessary evil for us living in OZ.

While they are not the clean skin worlds policemen they like us to believe i would hate to imagine our future here without their backing. Regardless who is in power, both countries have been strong allies for a long time and while the reasons behind the relationship mostly favour them - when you have the land we do and then have an underwhelming defence force with no chance of defending a real threat - you have no option but to be someone's bitch.

It wouldn't take long to see our freedom here being challenged IMO if not for there ties to us.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #24 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

The USA are involved officially or unofficially like always....they start, escalate conflicts and then leave when the damage is done , the repair bill then arrives and the refugees need a new home which is where the rest of the world have to come in and pick up the tab.Protect the oil fields at all costs and dont spill a drop is the USA battle cry, meanwhile we are paying double for our petrol, have doubled our detention centres, and the USA are claiming to have saved the day again.

They are an necessary evil for us living in OZ.

While they are not the clean skin worlds policemen they like us to believe i would hate to imagine our future here without their backing. Regardless who is in power, both countries have been strong allies for a long time and while the reasons behind the relationship mostly favour them - when you have the land we do and then have an underwhelming defence force with no chance of defending a real threat - you have no option but to be someone's bitch.

It wouldn't take long to see our freedom here being challenged IMO if not for there ties to us.
Agree with all of that in theory Shawny and that's how it's been in the past but I don't trust the USA to hold up their end of any agreements unless it's affecting their bottom line or national interests.
I'd rather see us spending more on defense and looking after our own backyard than relying on the USA to help us.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #25 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Agree with all of that in theory Shawny and that's how it's been in the past but I don't trust the USA to hold up their end of any agreements unless it's affecting their bottom line or national interests.

I'd rather see us spending more on defense and looking after our own backyard than relying on the USA to help us.
RedTrump has made it clear, under his leadership help goes to the highest bidder, or the most profitable, he'll walk over your corpse for a coin, being an ally and having fought side by side throughout history means nothing to RedTrump.

We were one of the few countries to support the USA in the Gulf, my UK friends were embarrassed by the UK's lack of involvement. They questioned what it meant to be British, "If Australia was there how can it be we aren't?"

The people who fought, some who died, side by side with our own troops, aren't they some of the ones RedTrump called losers?

RedTrump called US Veterans losers, and his MAGA fans still think he'll come to their rescue! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #26 –
Has anyone done any research into exploding tactical nukes in their bunkers and nuclear fallout vs them exploding as part of a weapon? 

I.e.  lets pretend Iran has said nukes, what is the projected impact of bombing it before its launched vs what the projected fallout is from deployment.

Obviously the nation receiving said nukes is better off, but there's no guarantee it's actually launched.  Meanwhile, if it gets blown up whilst in its underground bunker, there is a guarantee it goes off.  Are thr Israelis and USA playing a dangerous game with a nuclear arsenal they dont have a good understanding of? What if there is a worse impact from this action of striking first than there would be from not?

India and Pakistan have nukes.  They may use them against each other they probably won't.  Anyone who launches one sits in crazy territory to me.  They will end life as we know it for their own squabble and reminds me of the bully destroying toys in the mode of, "If I cant have one, you cant either and ill wreck it for you" except this way most of the world suffers.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #27 –
It's already been done.  The poms blew up a warhead at Maralinga in the 50s, we were still picking up highly radioactive debris until recently. Cost us hundreds of millions, killed countless regional South Australians with bizarre cancers.
The scary thing is attacking a working nuclear power plant, that will explode if the control and cooling system is rendered inoperable. I can't believe the Israelis would be reckless enough to even contemplate that, they should be considered a rogue state if they did.
PS I believe warheads deteriorate over time, something about the tritium decaying to deuterium which dampens the chain reaction, also there's a complex Li metal hydride that is an enhancer that has a limited shelf life.  Wondered why Li has been in the news lately? It's not just an EV battery component.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #28 –
Russia shelled Ukraines Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant before Ukraine abandoned it to safeguard any further damage. Israel have also targeted Irans only Nuclear Power facility which is run by Russian staff and forced them to abandon the facility to prevent further attacks.
The transmission infrastructure is usually the main target but it's a fine line in terms of accuracy and a disaster waiting to happen.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #29 –
The failure mechanisms and risks are very specific to the type of facility or device, most of what gets discussed in media are generalisations from worst case scenarios for specific types of device or facility.

If you destroyed a large scale SolarPV farm with conventional munitions, the dust from some rather nasty trace elements used in the manufacture of SolarPV would be as deadly if not even more deadly and toxic than radioisotopes. The same applies to grid scale batteries and battery fires.

In Australia, most of the weird detections of radioactive isotopes possibly correlated to cancers come from the French nuclear testing regime. I say possibly because the connection / correlation is pretty weak, in that thyroid cancers are often found with radioactive isotopes associated with nuclear testing but the reality is nearly all of us who lived through that era will test positive to some isotope associated with testing yet most won't even develop a correlated disease. The trace isotopes are so common around the globe earth sciences now use that layer as a date marker.

The reality is, if you live in a building, have a basement, sub floor or below ground enclosed space in your home, you are already exposed to far more radioactivity from radium gases than you'll ever get from nuclear testing or even medical imaging.

A lot of people involved in mining in states like SA and WA want to claim their ill health is a result of nuclear testing, I suppose it suits the lawyers. Reality is the outback is littered with natural sources of radioactive isotopes, and as soon as you start digging they are in the air, in dust storms and watering holes, our wide brown land is trying it's best to kill us.

That's not making an excuse for nuclear testing, it shouldn't be done and nuclear weapons should be illegal, but we should not be generalising the risk of nuclear energy in the same category.

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"