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Topic: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 2611 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #45 –
The reason we are the new St Kilda is that we have continued with the same methods that used to work, but no longer do. We have been impatient, short sighted and reactive. We have let corporate methods and individuals take charge for too long. What once may have been a successful blueprint simply does not work today. Today, the patient, stable clubs are the successful clubs. The edgy, brittle, reactive clubs are anchored at the bottom.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #46 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Buckley was pretty fascinating to listen to after the game, he asked one pertinent question last night, "which players emptied out?"
To me, other than Williams and Hollands, maybe Cowan, probably no one else.
Buckley was right...Docherty tried imo but he struggles to be effective.
Williams has been ok two weeks in a row which has surprised me but credit where it's due he has stood up while most of his mates have given it away.
Spot on EB, he was hard at it and tried to burst through packs (along with Moo and Ollie), more than I can say for the rest.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #47 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Williams brings energy...and then he gets injured  :(
Wretched luck, knee on knee/shin hurts, trust me I've had a few.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #48 –
Haven't looked at the Williams knee incident at length, but if it is anything more than some bruising, then i'd put my money on PCL.
The old ruck 'knee-on-knee' injury. If so, could very well be season over....and who knows....might even be career over.

Hopefully its just bruising.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #49 –
Einstein said the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I have always believed that was the definition of stupidity. What is the plan, who knows, except watching repeats of Harry Potter.
Why do we keep picking McGovern, Fantasia and Evans when they keep letting us down, Fogarty, Cripps, and Pittonet can't get near the ball, and every time Cerra, Acres, Docherty and Hewitt have the ball in their hands it reminds me why I don't go in Tattslotto. TDK is playing like a guy who has made the wrong decision for the wrong reasons and knows it. When Buddy took the money and ran to Sydney he was already the best football in the league, kicking 100 goals from center half forward and playing in a Premiership, TDK is taking $1.7m on potential and is going to a Club that has only ever won one Premiership in VFA, VFL and AFL history and are probably further away from a Premiership than we are. Curnow can barely get the ball and when he does his disposal is shocking and while HayCharlesnes is going ok, I don't see the future in him. The only experienced players to stand up were Williams and Weitering. Of the young guts, O.Hollands,, Motlop, Cowans, and Moir were good, Carroll and Lord had their moments, both good and bad, Young wasn't given a go, and to put O'Farrell up against hardened professionals in a losing side is negligent. I have hopes for o'Farrell but he needs time for development.
Silvagni, McKay, Walsh, Kemp, Newman, Saad and Cottrell would improve the side, as would Smith, and I think Durdin, Cincotta and Young couldn't hurt. I don't think we will see E.Hollands again. If TDK is going, when fit I would throw McKay into the rucking position and give him the same instructions Jesaulenko gave Mike Fitzpatrick when he returned form Oxford, if he wants to play for Carlton he has to become the enforcer.
I am actually quite bullish about our young guys but Ben and Luke Camporeale, Binns, Lemmey, Wilson and White need to get extended runs at AFL to see if they are up to it, while along with O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Charleson, Monahan and Duffy need to be allowed to develop.
This isn't 2002 or 2014, the Club isn't broke, we have good facilities and we have Young guys coming through if they are given a chance and allowed to develop. The team needs to stop worrying about what the Club's history is and start making their own history.
I thought the team got a genuine F for last night's effort, the previous two weeks they got an F because you can't give anything lower.
 

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #50 –
We're have alot of talent but it's useless when most aren't trying. Playing as uselessly as at the end of the Bolton days. We had won 3 from 43. Soon  as we sacked him we beat Brisbane the next week and won 6 from 11. Bet if Voss was sacked this week we'd beat Brisbane next week. Our good players would be suddenly good again, which is a terrible indictment on them. Don't  make a PF then sit 2nd on a ladder for 20 rounds the next year without ability.

Remember near the end of Bolton's term GWS outscored us 7 goals to 1 in the last qtr with 16 men. That's how hard we were trying then. A few weeks later and a new coach and we start winning. As I said  a terrible indictment.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #51 –
Quote from: laj – on
We're have alot of talent but it's useless when most aren't trying. Playing as uselessly as at the end of the Bolton days. We had won 3 from 43. Soon  as we sacked him we beat Brisbane the next week and won 6 from 11. Bet if Voss was sacked this week we'd beat Brisbane next week. Our good players would be suddenly good again, which is a terrible indictment on them. Don't  make a PF then sit 2nd on a ladder for 20 rounds the next year without ability.

Remember near the end of Bolton's term GWS outscored us 7 goals to 1 in the last qtr with 16 men. That's how hard we were trying then. A few weeks later and a new coach and we start winning. As I said  a terrible indictment.
I think other teams have improved, added to their lists and we have gone backwards from 2023, we also look slower as players age and with the heavy contested style we play. We are also the worst field kicking team in the comp and I reckon that translates into poor goal kicking too.
Voss doesn't have as much to work with as we might think. Our young kids are very  slight and raw too, HarryO might be 197cm but has no body strength at all and we can't stick tackles .
I actually saw Pendlebury running away from our mids..a 37 year old.
We could be passed by Nth and Richmond next season, losing Rnd1 to a rebuild kiddie team was an indicator of how tough the league is now. We were fresh but run over by school kids...

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #52 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: laj – on
We're have alot of talent but it's useless when most aren't trying. Playing as uselessly as at the end of the Bolton days. We had won 3 from 43. Soon  as we sacked him we beat Brisbane the next week and won 6 from 11. Bet if Voss was sacked this week we'd beat Brisbane next week. Our good players would be suddenly good again, which is a terrible indictment on them. Don't  make a PF then sit 2nd on a ladder for 20 rounds the next year without ability.

Remember near the end of Bolton's term GWS outscored us 7 goals to 1 in the last qtr with 16 men. That's how hard we were trying then. A few weeks later and a new coach and we start winning. As I said  a terrible indictment.
I think other teams have improved, added to their lists and we have gone backwards from 2023, we also look slower as players age and with the heavy contested style we play. We are also the worst field kicking team in the comp and I reckon that translates into poor goal kicking too.
Voss doesn't have as much to work with as we might think. Our young kids are very  slight and raw too, HarryO might be 197cm but has no body strength at all and we can't stick tackles .
I actually saw Pendlebury running away from our mids..a 37 year old.
We could be passed by Nth and Richmond next season, losing Rnd1 to a rebuild kiddie team was an indicator of how tough the league is now. We were fresh but run over by school kids...
Still don't lack talent. 2nd place was less than 12 months ago. Doesn't change that quick surely. Not to the extent one tumbles that far. Fact is, they are not trying. We've seen before how it can change in a week when they put in.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #53 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I think other teams have improved, added to their lists and we have gone backwards from 2023, we also look slower as players age and with the heavy contested style we play. We are also the worst field kicking team in the comp and I reckon that translates into poor goal kicking too.
Voss doesn't have as much to work with as we might think. Our young kids are very  slight and raw too, HarryO might be 197cm but has no body strength at all and we can't stick tackles .
I actually saw Pendlebury running away from our mids..a 37 year old.
We could be passed by Nth and Richmond next season, losing Rnd1 to a rebuild kiddie team was an indicator of how tough the league is now. We were fresh but run over by school kids...
Still don't lack talent. 2nd place was less than 12 months ago. Doesn't change that quick surely. Not to the extent one tumbles that far. Fact is, they are not trying. We've seen before how it can change in a week when they put in.
If they are not trying and that goes back to rnd 1 then who is responsible...??Players, coaching staff, administrators or all of the above. What were they doing all preseason? we had ample time to prepare for Richmond and turned up and played one quarter of football. They dont deserve our support, Id listen to offers on any of our players this trade period, none of them are safe...

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #54 –
There's this belief that Cripps is injured to account for his lower effectiveness.  I'm wondering if we need to find a different role for him outside the square as he can't get away from contests or buy a kick right now.  How's about playing him as a lead up forward and relief ruck?  Or has his back too far gone?  I'm just thinking that teams seems have come up with a way of completely nullifying him in the square and once the ball leaves the contested zone he's a witches hat.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
There's this belief that Cripps is injured to account for his lower effectiveness.  I'm wondering if we need to find a different role for him outside the square as he can't get away from contests or buy a kick right now.  How's about playing him as a lead up forward and relief ruck?  Or has his back too far gone?  I'm just thinking that teams seems have come up with a way of completely nullifying him in the square and once the ball leaves the contested zone he's a witches hat.

I was thinking the same thing.

Play him forward in tandem with Charlie and bring in Lemmey as well.
Cripps can act like a tall or a small in the forward line (good with the ball on the deck) and get throw his weight around and protect Lemmey should he require it.

Bring in Ben Campo and give him time in the guts.
Continue to run Motlop and Williams (if fit) in the middle to get some more speed, agility and kicking ability out of there.

Having Cripps as the 2nd ruck instead of Pittonet (or TDK if you wanna cut ties with him now) gives us a lot more versatility.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #56 –
I reckon him rucking would let him focus on where the ball is going and give him more chance of getting to the drop zone first, without some parasite hanging off him.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #57 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
I reckon him rucking would let him focus on where the ball is going and give him more chance of getting to the drop zone first, without some parasite hanging off him.

100%

This is why i like using non-rucks in rucking roles. It frees them up of any tag/matchup they might have and allows them to influence the game directly. Whether that is Cripps or Silvagni or Harry or whoever.
I've ran the numbers on hitouts to advantage and clearances and there is minimal difference from a dedicated 2nd ruck to a 'mr fix it' ruck. Might get an extra hitout to advantage or 2 at most. However, for the rest of the 115 minutes of football, the non-2nd ruck is more beneficial around the ground.

Harry played himself into form when he was allowed to stretch his legs in the ruck.

I know its only 2 games, but we've played 2 rucks twice all year and its been our 2 more unimpressive results, last night against the pies, and 2 weeks ago against the kangas.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
There's this belief that Cripps is injured to account for his lower effectiveness.  I'm wondering if we need to find a different role for him outside the square as he can't get away from contests or buy a kick right now.  How's about playing him as a lead up forward and relief ruck?  Or has his back too far gone?  I'm just thinking that teams seems have come up with a way of completely nullifying him in the square and once the ball leaves the contested zone he's a witches hat.
He is going the way of Nat Fyfe.....slowing down and becoming ineffectual, as a leader he tosses the coin and thats where it ends.
He couldnt chase a loping 37 year old who isnt known for his pace either.
With two brownlows he is Navy Blue Royalty but he probably needs a new cut down role and like old Royalty needs his playing time managed and Royal Duties like being captain passed on to the next generation.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Bluesers – on
Quote from: crashlander – on
Alas, there is the problem in a nutshell. You look at the 2's and you see glimpses of system, good chains of run and carry, the sort of thing you look for in the 1's.
[5] Tom de Koning was awful tonight. He barely touched the ball in the forward line or in the ruck. Just 11 possessions, and most of them were junk. I would almost drop him, he is playing so badly. He has never had much defence to his game, but his play at the moment is deplorable.

This is what i'm hearing/reading about tdk tonight,  however on afl.com.au match report they listed him as best player.   Either the writer was drunk or tdk was indeed bad but the rest of the team was far worse than bad...    While the result wasn't unexpected,  the resolve shown by the team apparently left a lot to be desired.   It's going to be a long 7 weeks.
Whoever thought Tom was amongst our best couldn't have been watching the game; of Tom's 11 possessions, I can recall only one leading to a scoring shot, and that he missed from 30 m out.

We didn't have a lot of good players last night; we were out-muscled, out-thought and totally without confidence. The number of times in the last quarter when we could have got goals, only to squander the opportunity ... No, I don't want to think about that. I'm not masochistic enough.

Who were our best players?
Pitto tried hard and wasn't embarrassed. He was probably beaten on the night, but he wasn't as poor as Tom was. He tool 3 marks and won his share of taps. It wasn't his fault that Collingwood's centre craft got most of the clearances.
Cowan: his run straight at the ball approach was pretty good on the night. 20 possessions and 8 marks was definitely worth mentioning.
Williams: Honestly, Zac was probably our best player for the first 3 quarters. He had 19 possessions, 3 goals and 4 clearances, but it was the way he got his clearances that was impressive. He not only ran forward, but his disposal was excellent, hitting targets inside 50. It wasn't his fault that Charlie and Tom couldn't hit the side of a barn (from inside). When he got hurt, it really affected the way we moved the ball.
Nick Haynes continues to impress, not only with his marking, but his willingness to have a go. Had he been able to hold a couple of tackles ... If wishes were horses, we'd all be up top our necks in horse kaka. :(
Ollie Hollands: If there is any youngster who has stood up this season, it is Ollie. His gut running and persistence really stood out: 24 possessions and 6 tackles.
Cripps and Cerra tried, they even got reasonable numbers (Cripps had 9 clearances, for example), but Collingwood's system in the middle really hurt them. It allowed the Daicos boys and Pendlebury to run unfettered out of the centre square. And with their superior disposal, our goose was cooked.

I will mention Charlie Curnow, who had 9 marks, 18 possessions and 4 scoring shots: that is a huge increase compared to recent performances. He was one of the few who won one-on-one contests in our forward line.
One thing I have noted in recent times is that Charlie is not clunking his marks. He more often than not two-grabs them, which isn't helping anyone.
And then there was his kicking; 4 points from 4 shots isn't good enough. And his field kicking, usually one of his strengths, was awful last night, not giving his team mates any chance of getting the ball.
Mind you, the passing to him was excremental as well. When our guys have a choice of an open small forward, nearer the middle of the ground, and Charlie leading to the wing, they picked Charlie every time. But then they missed the target and .... you get the idea. How many times open forwards were burnt last night I gave up trying to count. It was too depressing.
Live Long and Prosper!