AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

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Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #45 – August 04, 2025, 08:29:14 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on August 03, 2025, 08:42:15 pm

… and word on the street from an ITK on BF is that SOS is gone.

And Cripps is too… according to BF anyway. Apparently wants to play out his career back home.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #46 – August 04, 2025, 08:45:01 am

Quote from: Professer E – on August 03, 2025, 10:44:24 pm

His confidence is probably shot and he's playing dead games at the end of the worst season in years. Under the circumstances he's doing ok. Some more goals would be nice but he's not exactly getting quality delivery or any support whatsoever. None.

Im so over the outs and excuses we give professional footballers in the peak of their career who are on annual salaries their mates take 10 years to earn yet we baby them wrap them in cotton wool make excuses. Harry is a highly paid former coleman medalist who misses most years providing value for our investment. We say he struggles under the pressures of AFL well the pressure is well and truly off this year and after playing only half the games for the season for non injury reasons, you would think he would be chomping at the bit to end the season on the biggest high possible and give back to his employer everything he can on what was a massive failure again in 2025 for the whole organisation.

As a club will are likely to finish 14th! We need a concerted mindset change at this club if we want to ever compete again at the pointy end and blokes who for whatever reason are not mentally up for it, need to find a new occupation and off our payroll.

Sorry if i sound negative but I'm over the excuses and over failing year after year after year.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #47 – August 04, 2025, 08:46:53 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on August 03, 2025, 09:44:37 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on August 03, 2025, 09:32:02 pm

Not sure anyone was doubting Harry's effort. More his ability to impact games on the scoreboard.

We have so many 'good forwards' who rate highly in tackle numbers. Thats great and it has its place.
That being said, tackle numbers don't win you games, clearly. Perhaps if we spent more time training kicking goals, we'd have more wins on the board.

Curnow and McKay combined average less than 3 goals a game.
Fogarty
Motlop
Durdin
Evans
Williams
White
F. Young
Fantasia
Moir

Thats 9 players. Averages out to about 8 goals a game from them......and thats if we play them all!

Combine that with our 2 key forwards and we get 11 goals a game from 11 forwards.
Now, clearly we don't play 9 small forwards a game, but the averages stay the same.
Number of forwards we play = number of goals from those forwards

There's not a lot of games you will win with that kind of turnaround, especially since our midfielder (and backs) are going to kick less goals than our forwards.

You see the problem with tackle numbers? Its almost coming at the expense of goals kicked!
How many easy Joe the goose goals do we get? Our smalls are too busy clogging up the backline and nobody is 'cheating' forward for an easy goal.
Our team NEEDS more easy goals.
We need forwards to be forwards and kick goals.

As i said, i get the modern game and the pressure required etc.
To that i have a simple response - Check the ladder and let me know how thats working out for us.

FWIW,
We are 4th in the league for tackles per game.
We are 14th for goals a game.
We are 13th on the ladder.

So good on Harry.
Lets see him, and his mates, kick some bloody goals though!
I get it, but he's played 2 games in 12 weeks, and done his bit to put in for the team. The 10 tackles needs to be applauded because it shows he is doing all anyone can ask and that is to give you 100% effort.

Sure you want more goals than tackles but the first complaint about Charlie when he wasn't kicking goals was where are the tackles. Harry brought an elite level of tackle pressure and it should be applauded.

As i said, good on him for tackling. We are not paying him to tackle though. In fact giving his concussion issues, I'd almost prefer he keep his head out of harms way.

Issue with Charlie was not so much not tackling, more about not chasing...and not 'caring' to tackle.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #48 – August 04, 2025, 09:39:36 am

Quote from: LP – on August 04, 2025, 08:01:48 am

Until a player finds some form that is all the MC can ask for, it's a great indicator of effort.

Some fans might not see it, apparently some think it's nothing to track down the ball carrier at AFL level which is by the way the tackle stat, catching the ball carrier!

It's interesting to see BigH going through this phase, not dissimilar to 2M Peter's issues a couple of years back.

1.1, 10 tackles, 12 disposals, 4 marks, 93% time on ground is a decent return for a rusty, underdone KP player.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #49 – August 04, 2025, 09:44:50 am

How much time on ground did Motlop get for his return? Or Williams? Or Flynn or Moir or Durdin? I reckon potting Harry is a bit rich when he's got zero support around him. Crikey, he laid more tackles than the blokes supposedly in the side to provide exactly that.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #50 – August 04, 2025, 09:50:39 am

Just on Motlop.
He seemed to be everywhere.
And that's part of the issue he has.
He's where the ball is, but he's not getting possessions or impacting to any great extent.

Lot's of exposure for 7 disposals.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #51 – August 04, 2025, 10:00:51 am

Exactly, and the question is....is this all we are ever going to get from him?

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #52 – August 04, 2025, 10:06:49 am

Really liked our first half, but then same old same old returned for the second half... probably for a variety of reason - like always. We do know that Freo changed a few things around after half time and we couldn't handle it - like always.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #53 – August 04, 2025, 10:16:28 am

Quote from: kruddler – on August 04, 2025, 08:46:53 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on August 03, 2025, 09:44:37 pm
I get it, but he's played 2 games in 12 weeks, and done his bit to put in for the team. The 10 tackles needs to be applauded because it shows he is doing all anyone can ask and that is to give you 100% effort.

Sure you want more goals than tackles but the first complaint about Charlie when he wasn't kicking goals was where are the tackles. Harry brought an elite level of tackle pressure and it should be applauded.

As i said, good on him for tackling. We are not paying him to tackle though. In fact giving his concussion issues, I'd almost prefer he keep his head out of harms way.

Issue with Charlie was not so much not tackling, more about not chasing...and not 'caring' to tackle.

You and I both know, that if Charlie had done the chasing and tackling and returning 1.1 goals, the arguments you raise here would be identically applied to him, because nothing short of career best form is what our fans are expecting in a team that is not firing on all cylinders.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #54 – August 04, 2025, 10:38:02 am

Quote from: Lods – on August 04, 2025, 09:50:39 am

Just on Motlop.
He seemed to be everywhere.
And that's part of the issue he has.
He's where the ball is, but he's not getting possessions or impacting to any great extent.

Lot's of exposure for 7 disposals.

Not getting to the footy has been Motlop's historical problem, so I think seeing him in and around many contest is a step in the right direction.

He's got tricks he just needs to find ways to use them, he'll get better the more opportunity he gets.

Surely nobody could argue he's not at least appearing a bit better than in the past!

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #55 – August 04, 2025, 10:59:33 am

Quote from: LP – on August 04, 2025, 10:38:02 am

Quote from: Lods – on August 04, 2025, 09:50:39 am
Just on Motlop.
He seemed to be everywhere.
And that's part of the issue he has.
He's where the ball is, but he's not getting possessions or impacting to any great extent.

Lot's of exposure for 7 disposals.
Not getting to the footy has been Motlop's historical problem, so I think seeing him in and around many contest is a step in the right direction.

He's got tricks he just needs to find ways to use them, he'll get better the more opportunity he gets.

Surely nobody could argue he's not at least appearing a bit better than in the past!

We have no choice but to continue to persevere with Motlop, he is showing signs of improvement just needs a breakout game.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #56 – August 04, 2025, 01:31:52 pm

Watching the tape, Tracey isn't averse to hurting kids, shoves blokes under the ball, and a lot of "accidental" high contact. I wouldn't shed any tears if someone came over the top and served him up his own medicine. As a group we've been too accepting of this sh#t for far too long.