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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 369958 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #195 –
Quote from: LP – on
So what should they do?

The widespread calls for action are meaningless, bordering on dog whistling, when they are delivered without offers of a genuine solution.

Of course, when challenged the old "What can I do" response is specifically part of the problem!

It's clear to me, the loudest calls coming from the likes of Netanyahu and RedTrump is disingenuous, they profit from this violence, they do not want it to stop, they captain very highly profitable war machines.

I'll finish today with this, there is significant irony in the media commentators claiming the political dialogue has become too dangerous, too vindictive, many might not understand that irony, they are the medium, they are the editors and producers. They will profit heavily as well.

It's essentially one of the standard Liberal/ conservative talking points, the imputation and sometimes direct accusation that Labor governments are "soft on crime."

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #196 –
Does anyone bother to read the ASIO Director-General's Annual Threat Assessments?

It's here: https://www.asio.gov.au/director-generals-annual-threat-assessment-2025

A couple of excerpts:

"Over the next five years, a complex, challenging and changing security environment will become more  dynamic, more diverse and more degraded.

Many of the foundations that have underpinned Australia’s security, prosperity and democracy are being tested: social cohesion is eroding, trust in institutions is declining, intolerance is growing, even truth itself is being undermined by conspiracy, mis- and disinformation.

Similar trends are playing out across the Western world.

So what does this mean for our security environment?

Australia is facing multifaceted, merging, intersecting, concurrent and cascading threats. Major geopolitical, economic, social and security challenges of the 1930s, 70s and 90s have converged. As one of my analysts put it with an uncharacteristic nod to popular culture: everything, everywhere all at once.

Or as I described it a moment ago, more dynamic, diverse and degraded."
...

"The war in the Middle East has not yet directly inspired terrorism in Australia, but it is prompting protest, exacerbating division, undermining social cohesion and elevating intolerance. This, in turn, is making acts of politically motivated violence more likely."

Terrorism is a subset of politically motivated violence. It covers acts or threats intended to advance a political, religious or ideological cause through intimidation. So while a protest or an attack on an electoral office might be an act of politically motivated violence, it may not meet the threshold of terrorism.

We raised the national terrorism threat level in 2024 and I do not anticipate being able to lower it in the foreseeable future.

Politically motivated violence is raising the temperature of the security environment and making acts of terrorism more likely.

At the same time, traditional transnational terrorist groups such as Islamic State, al-Qa’ida and their affiliates are exploiting permissive spaces to revive and renew their capabilities, particularly in Afghanistan and parts of Africa. The groups have demonstrated their ability to conduct successful external attacks, although I stress that none of last year’s terrorist incidents in Australia were directed by an offshore group, and our greatest threat remains a lone actor using an easily obtained weapon."

Our greatest threat in part because, despite all of the surveillance and intelligence at ASIO's disposal, lone actors are almost impossible to detect and apprehend.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #197 –
Disappointing, but hardly surprising, that the Libs can't follow the example of past Labor governments in offering bipartisan support after a tragedy. Beazley after Port Arthur and Shorten after the Lindt Cafe siege being two obvious examples. I'm no fan of Labor, but credit where it's due.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #198 –
Some things are bigger than point scoring or the next election
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #199 –
Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #200 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Paul recently posted:

Quote from: PaulP – on
Robert Pape has done significant work in the related and adjacent space of suicide attacks and terrorism. His book Dying To Win contains original research and is now a landmark study in the field. It may surprise some that most people who carry out such attacks are not motivated by religion. As Pape shows, their scriptural literacy and interest in religion is low. Many of the attackers are secular. What motivates them more than anything is foreign powers doing s h i t t y things to their people and on their land, removing any possibility of self determination and removing any chance of building a life of some meaning and purpose.

Material conditions always take precedence over theological principles and considerations.

Many other researchers have drawn the same conclusions as Pape, almost all terrorists, and particularly lone wolf terrorists, are motivated by the real and/or perceived repression of those they identify with.  The slaughter of 70,000 Palestinians since October 2023 is the likely motivation with the victims representing Netanyahu's IDF.  Krissy Barrett is correct, the Bondi terrorist attack wasn't religious even if the intended and actual victims were Jewish.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #201 –
There's a difference between Anti-Zionsim and Antisemitism.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #202 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Islamic extremist deniers are worse than climate change deniers.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #203 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Paul recently posted:

Quote from: PaulP – on
Robert Pape has done significant work in the related and adjacent space of suicide attacks and terrorism. His book Dying To Win contains original research and is now a landmark study in the field. It may surprise some that most people who carry out such attacks are not motivated by religion. As Pape shows, their scriptural literacy and interest in religion is low. Many of the attackers are secular. What motivates them more than anything is foreign powers doing s h i t t y things to their people and on their land, removing any possibility of self determination and removing any chance of building a life of some meaning and purpose.

Material conditions always take precedence over theological principles and considerations.

Many other researchers have drawn the same conclusions as Pape, almost all terrorists, and particularly lone wolf terrorists, are motivated by the real and/or perceived repression of those they identify with.  The slaughter of 70,000 Palestinians since October 2023 is the likely motivation with the victims representing Netanyahu's IDF.  Krissy Barrett is correct, the Bondi terrorist attack wasn't religious even if the intended and actual victims were Jewish.
And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #205 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?

Since that terrible, unforgiveable slaughter by Hamas terrorists, the IDF has killed 70,000 Palestinians and thousands of children are starving and being denied basic human rights like education and healthcare.  Is that being done on religious grounds or is it just acceptable collateral damage on the way to more land for Israeli settlers or Taco's 'Riviera of the Middle East'?

What pisses me off about our Government is that they won't push back against the corrupt war criminal Netanyahu, who is more responsible for the anti-Zionism that's sweeping the world than anyone else.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #206 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Since that terrible, unforgiveable slaughter by Hamas terrorists, the IDF has killed 70,000 Palestinians and thousands of children are starving and being denied basic human rights like education and healthcare.  Is that being done on religious grounds or is it just acceptable collateral damage on the way to more land for Israeli settlers or Taco's 'Riviera of the Middle East'?

What pisses me off about our Government is that they won't push back against the corrupt war criminal Netanyahu, who is more responsible for the anti-Zionism that's sweeping the world than anyone else.

Generally agree. I found it very helpful to read some of the leading historians and scholars in the field : Avi Shlaim, Norman Finkelstein, Ilan Pappé, Benny Morris, Joseph Heller and others. Even though in some cases I don't agree with their theses or politics.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #207 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?

Since that terrible, unforgiveable slaughter by Hamas terrorists, the IDF has killed 70,000 Palestinians and thousands of children are starving and being denied basic human rights like education and healthcare.  Is that being done on religious grounds or is it just acceptable collateral damage on the way to more land for Israeli settlers or Taco's 'Riviera of the Middle East'?

What pisses me off about our Government is that they won't push back against the corrupt war criminal Netanyahu, who is more responsible for the anti-Zionism that's sweeping the world than anyone else.
as true as that is, they've been negotiating a two state solution for as long as ive been alive.

Netanyahu is within rights to steam roll palestine and solve that problem once and for all, but that wont stop things like the Bondi shooting (it will just inflame it) which dot points why labelling it anti jew misses the mark by the length of the flemigton straight.

Its a proxy war.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #208 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Netanyahu is within rights to steam roll palestine and solve that problem once and for all,
Surely nobody, neither side in this dispute and nobody in any dispute, has the right to target facilities or take actions that cause the collateral death of children and infants, either directly or indirectly.

Target military, terrorists and gorillas all you like, but stay away from civilians and children.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #209 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Netanyahu is within rights to steam roll palestine and solve that problem once and for all,
Surely nobody, neither side in this dispute and nobody in any dispute, has the right to target facilities or take actions that cause the collateral death of children and infants, either directly or indirectly.

Target military, terrorists and gorillas all you like, but stay away from civilians and children.
its war.

In war there are winners and losers.

These days this stuff kicks off, and then state there needs to be a peaceful outcome.

There is no peaceful outcome for the loser unless they assimilate to the invading party.

Let this thing kick off rather than have a bunch of "now now, play nice" and pretend that one side is better than the other.  There is no better.  Its just two nations at war. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson