Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports.  With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they?   History is always written by the victor.

That's the thing though Thry, the terrorists who attacked innocent Israelis aren't professional soldiers, don't wear a uniform, don't answer to a government and aren't bound by the rules that govern conflicts between nations.  If they are apprehended, they are charged with terrorism offences (although the ICC did charge the now dead head of Hamas with war crimes).  When I was a member of the ADF, I was taught the provisions of the Geneva and Hague Conventions and regularly reminded to comply with them at all times.  Of course, professional soldiers may find it hard to adhere to the rules when the enemy doesn't, as we saw in Afghanistan.

Israel is a party to all four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and is legally bound by their rules ... and they're the first to bleat if any IDF personnel are not treated in accordance with the conventions.

Again, you're falling into the trap of assuming that the militants represent all Palestinians and all Palestinians are militants.  The vast majority of Palestinians just want the Israelis and Hamas to leave them alone and they are not hiding "their militants" anywhere.

The 7 October attacks killed 1,195 people, 815 of whom were Israeli civilians.  In addition, around 250 people were taken hostage and many of them haven't survived.  The Israeli offensive that followed has killed 70,925 Palestinians, foreign aid workers and reporters and another 171,185 have been wounded.  Around 1,200 IDF personnel have been killed since 7 October, on all fronts.  Since the "ceasefire", 379 Palestinians, including 70 children, have been killed and three IDF soldiers have died.  Those figures aren't surprising when you have one of the largest, most ruthless and well-equipped military forces waging war on unarmed civilians and defenceless children.

Hamas was estimated to have between 20-40,000 fighters of varying capacity and access to weapons in October 2023.  The IDF claims to have killed around 17,000 to 23,000 militants (that's around one third of Palestinian casualties) since then.  Of course, the ongoing persecution of Palestinians is likely to radicalise more fighters but there's a finite number. 

The ICC is the referee that adjudicates war crimes.

I'm not a fan of protests generally and I don't think the pro-Palestinian rallies will change anyone's mind, or government policies.  However, as Judith Treanor, a Jewish small business owner, points out,

"Those advocating for restrictions on pro-Palestinian protests must acknowledge the diversity of Jewish perspectives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in ourtives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in our name."

You can read Judith's letter here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/other/21804/Judith%20Treanor,%20Pearls%20and%20Irritations,%2029%20January%202025.pdf