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Topic: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat (Read 3931 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #90 –
The problem, is Kruds you dump anyone under 190cm into the small forward label.

Variety is the spice of life,  and those players all bring different strengths to the party.
Yep, They all have their weaknesses too
But quite a few of them are in our best 23.
What they do is give us depth... and options to structure up in a number of different ways.
You keep saying your not being negative, but before I even read your first response to the video of draft night I knew that even if you gave them some faint praise you'd have a sting in the tail.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #91 –
Praise for what Lods? We selected a father son and our acedmy pick.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #92 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The problem, is Kruds you dump anyone under 190cm into the small forward label.

Variety is the spice of life,  and those players all bring different strengths to the party.
Yep, They all have their weaknesses too
But quite a few of them are in our best 23.
What they do is give us depth... and options to structure up in a number of different ways.
You keep saying your not being negative, but before I even read your first response to the video of draft night I knew that even if you gave them some faint praise you'd have a sting in the tail.

Quite a few are in our best 23? I would hope so, they take up 1/4 of our list.

All players bring different strengths, sure. We can't play them all though.
I keep hearing these players can play wing or midfield, none of them have made the best 23 (so far) in the midfield yet.....and that doesn't include the mid/half back types vying for the same positions like Campox2, hollands, charleson, now chesser, florent etc.

Yes those players give us depth and ability to structure up in a different way.
We already had depth and ability to structure up in a different way.
We don't have depth, or ability to structure up a different way in other areas though.


I'd already given my response to our drafting previously, you want me to change that because of a video? I just echoed what i said previously. They executed their plan, kudos. I still think its the wrong plan though. A feel good video is suposed to make me change my mind?

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #93 –
Our NGA is part of our list management strategy.  The fact that we drafted Ison is evidence that our NGA is finally working.

Harry Dean’s development is also a product of our NGA and he’s ready to go as a result.  The downside is that we were forced to use more points than if he’d had no connection to the club.  Cody Walker is going through a similar experience that should make for a seamless transition from under 18s to AFL.

We were fortunate that Ison drifted and we were able to draft Byrne as well as shoring up our points for the 2026 draft … but you make your own luck by exhaustive scenario planning.

Our list management moved out of the dark ages with SOS’s appointment.  Austin and Agresta have pushed its evolution forward and we’re at least the equal of the best in the business now.  Of course, that doesn’t mean an instant improvement in our on field fortunes as sustainable list development takes time.  The better performing teams have developing players waiting in the wings and can maintain their ladder positions through seamless replacement of departing players.  We’re finally getting to that point.

In previous years we’ve tended to bring in a couple of players in the twilight of their careers as insurance or to plug gaps.  With the exception of Nick Haynes, a recruitment masterstroke, all of our incoming players are now at the beginning or the peak of their careers.

While I do think that size matters, it’s not something worth obsessing over.





"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #94 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Praise for what Lods? We selected a father son and our acedmy pick.
Kruddler gave them 'faint praise' for having a plan.
He also said he didn't agree with it.
So it was pretty faint :D

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #95 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Praise for what Lods? We selected a father son and our acedmy pick.
Kruddler gave them 'faint praise' for having a plan.
He also said he didn't agree with it.
So it was pretty faint :D

I think he's agreeing with me Lods. Doesn't see why they are getting so much praise when all they did was draft blokes we knew we were getting.

I'd be a hypocrite if i agreed with it wouldn't I?

I've been pretty consistent on this for the better part of a decade now i reckon.
Every year i hear that 'you need to give them time, or results want show for a few years etc', well i'm still waiting.
I think there would need to be a minor miracle occur this year for me to be proven wrong as i think the slide will continue with only minmal injuries (very unlike us) likely to overcome that slide.

But hey, this thread is about different ways to do things and they are executed what they set out to do which i've given them credit for. Just saying i wouldn't be going down the same path as them.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #96 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Praise for what Lods? We selected a father son and our acedmy pick.

It's not that we got Harry and Jack, we were always going to get them as you pointed out, but it was the way we did it - swapping picks and going further back into the draft yet keeping necessary points, then being able to secure a future 2nd and 3rd in the process of getting our targets + Taylor Byrne.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #97 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on

Kruddler gave them 'faint praise' for having a plan.
He also said he didn't agree with it.
So it was pretty faint :D

I think he's agreeing with me Lods. Doesn't see why they are getting so much praise when all they did was draft blokes we knew we were getting.

I'd be a hypocrite if i agreed with it wouldn't I?

I've been pretty consistent on this for the better part of a decade now i reckon.
Every year i hear that 'you need to give them time, or results want show for a few years etc', well i'm still waiting.
I think there would need to be a minor miracle occur this year for me to be proven wrong as i think the slide will continue with only minmal injuries (very unlike us) likely to overcome that slide.

But hey, this thread is about different ways to do things and they are executed what they set out to do which i've given them credit for. Just saying i wouldn't be going down the same path as them.

I respect the fact that you've been consistent.
Nothing wrong with that.
The only issue with consistency is that at some point we may have to change our minds regarding a fixed position.
It then becomes a case of flexibility.
A bit of give in a set position.
You're not there yet...You may never be, and in fact you may end up being right.
As Baggers points out the wheeling and dealing on draft night was a bit more complicated than just securing Dean and Ison.
If it had been Silvagni we'd probably be giving him kudos for his pick swapping

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #98 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


I think he's agreeing with me Lods. Doesn't see why they are getting so much praise when all they did was draft blokes we knew we were getting.

I'd be a hypocrite if i agreed with it wouldn't I?

I've been pretty consistent on this for the better part of a decade now i reckon.
Every year i hear that 'you need to give them time, or results want show for a few years etc', well i'm still waiting.
I think there would need to be a minor miracle occur this year for me to be proven wrong as i think the slide will continue with only minmal injuries (very unlike us) likely to overcome that slide.

But hey, this thread is about different ways to do things and they are executed what they set out to do which i've given them credit for. Just saying i wouldn't be going down the same path as them.

I respect the fact that you've been consistent.
Nothing wrong with that.
The only issue with consistency is that at some point we may have to change our minds regarding a fixed position.
It then becomes a case of flexibility.
A bit of give in a set position.
You're not there yet...You may never be, and in fact you may end up being right.
As Baggers points out the wheeling and dealing on draft night was a bit more complicated than just securing Dean and Ison.
If it had been Silvagni we'd probably be giving him kudos for his pick swapping

I've given them kudos for what they did. Thats what they wanted to do. They had a plan and acheived it. Its my issue with the plan itself, always has been.

I still think we should've gone a different direction, both last year and this year.

Fun fact, if we didn't do what we did last year, we wouldn't have had to do what we did this year. We had to do all these trades to dig us out of the hole they traded us in to last year. ;)

 

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #99 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Doesn't see why they are getting so much praise when all they did was draft blokes we knew we were getting.

You don't think all list managers go into a draft knowing which players they will draft or, if not, the players they are most likely to draft?

The only difference is that we had to announce the two players we were targeting rather than keeping shtum.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #100 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
Doesn't see why they are getting so much praise when all they did was draft blokes we knew we were getting.

You don't think all list managers go into a draft knowing which players they will draft or, if not, the players they are most likely to draft?

The only difference is that we had to announce the two players we were targeting rather than keeping shtum.
Yeah, which took all the guesswork out of it.
Yet they are hailed as great leaders and innovators.....and added a small forward to the mix.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #101 –
I guarantee there was a list of players they were interested in.  At one point on the video they said someone was off the board before they made the decision to trade with Brisbane.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #102 –
@kruddler you're simplifying it.  They were scenario planning for multiple outcomes, and this video shows it in action.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #103 –
@Thry.....

I get that, but at the end of the day, all we needed was points. You can get that a million ways....as we saw.

Had we done literally nothing, we could've ended up with the same exact players....just without maybe some future picks.

Yes, i'm aware of the benefit of future picks, but similar to this year, those picks are as much about points as it is about the actual picks. With future less important for points than this year (and any other year previous). So how important they will be is yet to be determined.

I'm much more impressed with someone like Essendon preying on someone desperate for points and bringing in top end talent at the expense of later picks. Something we fail to take advantage of. In fact i suggested we do exactly that with Gold Coast prior to draft night after i highlighted that they screwed up by not giving themselves enough picks. They did multiple trades on draft night to counteract that, i think we got a future 3rd out of it which we probably won't use as is anyway.


For teams, like us, and gold coast who know what talent they are getting, its simply a numbers game. Get as many points as possible and try and sell off any excess later and take whatever is left later in the draft.

I would've liked to have worked our way into using a pick 20-ish on some more a-grade talent, than a pick 47 on a small forward and some future picks.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #104 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Praise for what Lods? We selected a father son and our acedmy pick.

It's not that we got Harry and Jack, we were always going to get them as you pointed out, but it was the way we did it - swapping picks and going further back into the draft yet keeping necessary points, then being able to secure a future 2nd and 3rd in the process of getting our targets + Taylor Byrne.

It was a no brainer. I said we would be trading the picks as soon as we got them.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!